#transmisoginy

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happysadyoyo:

doberbutts:

folly-of-alexandria:

doberbutts:

folly-of-alexandria:

I’m not sure I believe in the concept of Transandrophobia as it has been previously described to me. For the most part nothing I’ve seen described seems to have any significant differences from garden variety transphobia.

This is no to say that I don’t believe that there aren’t examples of transphobia that are experiences unique to trans men, and it rankly would be hilariously wrong to assume that there aren’t. So I’m not inclined to get hostile or defensive about it as a term transmascs use in general in talking about those experiences.

However I have seen a few bad faith actors use the term as a cudgel to attack some trans women they don’t like, as well as the claim that trans women enjoy increased visibility from cis people while ignoring that that visibility is generally based around the portrayal of us as a threat (i.e. as Sexual predators and invaders into women’s spaces and sports).

There is clearly an important conversation on Trans men’s oppression that needs to happen, but I don’t trust anyone who starts that conversation with an adversarial stance towards trans women.

Also and discussion that starts with the assumption that ‘trans men/women have it easier because x’ is inherently bad faith and I’m not going to entertain it.

Understanding that this is a space for good faith discussion and not for ignorant assholes to come swinging:

I would probably begin by asking you the same. What separates transmisogyny from garden variety transphobia? What aspects of transmisogyny do trans men not experience?

I have seen those bad actors and I have outwardly, openly disagreed with them when they cross my dash. However I also could say the same: I have seen trans women using transmisogyny as both sword and shield to swing at trans men by saying we have it easier or that we need to be put in our place or that we don’t experience oppression at all. I have seen trans women say that even having a name, any name, for what we go through is transmisogyny in and of itself because we’re ‘making transphobia about us’ and ‘only centering ourselves’. I have seen trans women claiming the erasure and invisibility of trans men is actually privilege.

Again, I am not attacking you, nor am I saying all trans women are bad. But I am saying, if we must answer for a few bad actors, why can we not ask the same of others? If we must constantly be reminded, remember trans men can be transmisogynists, why can we also not point out that other transgender people can also treat us badly? That they also can contribute to a system that harms us directly?

A white trans woman recently put me on a blocklist made up of people she claims are transmisogynists and racists. I’m a black trans man who was directly mentored by an older trans woman and who regularly directly contributes to my local transgender community *including by hosting homeless trans women in my house rent-free while they secure safe long-term housing*. I have never spoken to this particular trans woman. She doesn’t know me, or my life, or anything about who I am. Yet she was able to make a bad faith attack against my character by wielding transmisogyny (and racism! from a white woman to a black man!) as a sword against me and as a shield to protect her from any blowback.

Are we not allowed to talk about these bad actors as well? Are we not allowed to be upset? Angry, even, to be spit on by our sisters like this? Are we not allowed to call it out when we see it?

You are under no obligation to answer for bad actors. To pretend that each trans man should be on trial for the actions of the worst would be ridiculous. Its not something you should take from anyone.

I’m only stating that I don’t quite believe in the version that had previously been presented to me. Which I’m pretty convinced was by someone that wasn’t giving a more honest account as their own presentation of it was based entirely around trans men’s position in comparison to trans women. I’d like to get an honest statement on what Transandrophobia actually is, one that is focused more on trans men rather than a version that seemed based around a comparison to trans women.

Very possible, even likely.

“Transandrophobia”, “transmisandry”, “transmascphobia”, “transphobia against trans mascs” no matter what you call it, it means the same thing. Each has had more people concerned about the word itself or the origins of such than what they mean and what they represent.

For the record, when I was mentored and guided by a trans woman old enough to be my parent, using language so old that nowadays it’s considered offensive, it was her opinion and the opinion of those like her that it’s all “transmisogyny”, and that trans men and trans women didn’t actually have that many differences outside of what would be directly influenced by the paths we took via transition. I think the current discourse has done a lot of damage to the unity represented by that belief.

In any case, it is: transphobia + malignment and hatred of those with a complicated relationship with gender and masculine-leaning identities + misogyny. Often with sprinkles of homophobia, racism, intersexism, and ableism on top, as all discussions of gender tend to be.

In life, this looks like:

The rejection of nonbinary people of any designation who are too “male-appearing” from LGBT spaces labeled friendly to “women and nonbinary”

The rampant rape and forcible impregnation of uterus-bearing transgender people as a means of detransition

The resurgence of the “predatory butch” stereotype

The medical abuse and forced feminization of viralized intersex bodies

Deliberately denying lifesaving medical treatment unrelated to transition to trans men, including abortions, pap smears, and cervical/uterine/ovarian cancer treatments

The constant erasure of trans men and trans mascs in history- explaining them as “just lesbians” or “masculine women” even when we have writing from journals and letters and wills stating they wished only to be known as men

The “stolen lesbian” and “butch flight” stereotype

The “fujoshi” stereotype

Laws written specifically to preserve the fertility of all people with uteruses, which have within their writing that they intend to prevent “girls” from “ruining their viability as mothers” due to the “gender craze”

It is not that there is belief that trans women don’t experience their own versions of this- in fact, outside of forced impregnation, I’d guess y’all probably do experience a lot of this same stuff just in a different flavored gender expression. Additionally, most of this is not afab-specific; there’s quite a few discussions circulating where amab trans people are included in this because they are amab and trans but not feminine (or they are feminine but they are bigender, or genderqueer, or they are neutral and Whatever The Fuck They Feel Like Doing That Day).

This is why my old mentor considered it all the same. She felt as though we all experience our own versions of this, it’s all fueled by a combination of transphobia and misogyny, and just repackaged in slightly different colors based on the individual experiencing it. I can’t say I disagree with her.

There are some people who view this discussion as “this is transphobia for trans men” and “that is transphobia for trans women”, and I think that’s not really a bad thing per say, but I think it adds an unnecessary gender line and often oppression isn’t so clearcut. Especially when you remember that nonbinary genders exist and not everyone is “boy” or “girl”.

For the record, when I was mentored and guided by a trans woman old enough to be my parent, using language so old that nowadays it’s considered offensive, it was her opinion and the opinion of those like her that it’s all “transmisogyny”, and that trans men and trans women didn’t actually have that many differences outside of what would be directly influenced by the paths we took via transition. 

This is a very slight derail, sorry OP, but I wanted to highlight this bit without taking it out of context. 

I think I understand where your mentor is coming from and I actually agree! I’ve been reading Whipping Girl bit by bit (where transmisogyny was “officially” coined and I think Serano and everyone else since 2007 have forgotten that what trans people face in terms of phobia, oppression, the ilk, is entirely based on how people perceive us. 

It’s why I take such offense to TME/TMA as static labels. Why I say trans women and trans femme people can face transandrophobia and trans men and trans masc people can face transmisogyny. There are definite conversations to be had about unique situations one can experience, but everything is just muddy. It’s not oil and water; it’s silt, and we can strain water from clay, but it’s a lot of fucking effort and really not useful in a day to day context imo. 

neurodivergent-noodle:

for people who read my pride post and said “who is saying that disabled people can’t be queer??” …

firstly, you’re living a much better life than me. I wish I was living in your version of the universe. secondly… lots of people.

non-speaking or otherwise mid-high support autistic people are often not trusted when they communicate their queerness to others.

physically disabled people are often sent the message that they can’t be sexual. that they don’t have a sexuality.

denying us our sexuality and gender is a component of the infantilisation of disabled people. people assume we’re too feeble to be thinking about sex, and too confused to think about gender.

so who is saying that disabled people can’t be queer?

doctors who won’t let disabled people access gender-affirming processes.

carers who don’t consider that their client might be queer.

media that continues to depict disabled people in ways that are desexualised and generally infantilising.

disabled people still know themselves better than you ever will. listen to them.

Literally one of JKR’s biggest arguments against transmascs was that we’re autistic girls and therefore can’t be trusted to know our identity, or that we’re too stupid and will be brainwashed by the evil transes.

And from what I’ve heard this argument has done wonders to make HRT more inaccessible to trans people in the UK.

afloweroutofstone:

Congrats to all the conservatives and TERFs on their new law to preserve women’s sports by allowing school officials to inspect your kid’s genitals

gaytransfaglove:

queercomicsconnection:

canmom:

trancer21:

ratherembarrassing:

blitzfrau:

Hey since TERFs buried the original, higher quality recording, here’s the only surviving recording of trans activist Sylvia Rivera’s infamous “Y'all Better Quiet Down” speech, along with full transcription, now free and open on Archive.org. The transphobic fucks can try their best to scrub us from history, but we’re not going anywhere.

and if you can, go and see The Death and Life of Marsha P Johnson, which includes this footage as part of a fuller segment on Sylvia Rivera’s life right up until her death. what an amazing person who the world was not ready for.

(Transcription follows:)
Sylvia Rivera: I may be—

Crowd: [booing]

Sylvia Rivera: Y'all better quiet down. I’ve been trying to get up here all day for your gay brothers and your gay sisters in jail that write me every motherfucking week and ask for your help and you all don’t do a goddamn thing for them.

Have you ever been beaten up and raped and jailed? Now think about it. They’ve been beaten up and raped after they’ve had to spend much of their money in jail to get their [inaudible], and try to get their sex changes. The women have tried to fight for their sex changes or to become women. On the women’s liberation and they write ‘STAR,’ not to the women’s groups, they do not write women, they do not write men, they write ‘STAR’ because we’re trying to do something for them.

I have been to jail. I have been raped. And beaten. Many times! By men, heterosexual men that do not belong in the homosexual shelter. But, do you do anything for me? No. You tell me to go and hide my tail between my legs. I will not put up with this shit. I have been beaten. I have had my nose broken. I have been thrown in jail. I have lost my job. I have lost my apartment for gay liberation and you all treat me this way? What the fuck’s wrong with you all? Think about that!

I do not believe in a revolution, but you all do. I believe in the gay power. I believe in us getting our rights, or else I would not be out there fighting for our rights. That’s all I wanted to say to you people. If you all want to know about the people in jail and do not forget Bambi L'amour, and Dora Mark, Kenny Metzner, and other gay people in jail, come and see the people at Star House on Twelfth Street on 640 East Twelfth Street between B and C apartment 14.

The people are trying to do something for all of us, and not men and women that belong to a white middle class white club. And that’s what you all belong to!

REVOLUTION NOW! Gimme a ‘G’! Gimme an ‘A’! Gimme a ‘Y’! Gimme a ‘P’! Gimme an ‘O’! Gimme a ‘W’! Gimme an ‘E! Gimme an ‘R’! [crying] Gay power! Louder! GAY POWER!

There’s some really important commentary on this event by several trans women on the previous upload of the video. I’m going to quote it here so it’s not lost; unfortunately the original commenters have deleted their blogs or gone private so I can’t provide full attribution.

lilacbootlacessaid:

[[Trigger warning: suicide]]

Sylvia went home that night and attempted suicide.

Marsha Johnson came home and found her in time to save her life.

Sylvia left the movement after that day and didn’t come back for twenty years.

@ourcatastrophesaid:

this is incredible, she is incredible, I highly recommend watching it

but I think the addendum re: the effect of this day on sylvia is really important

so often we valorise decontextualised moments of tough, articulate resistance and rage

and the suffering of the people who embodied them is not acknowledged, it’s uncomfortable, it’s not inspiring, we want them to stay tough and cool and stylish forever

which is particularly terrible when I think about how sylvia felt like that because of women like me — women who are now watching this video and feeling inspired and impressed and maybe a bit pleased with ourselves for finally having watched a speech by the famous and really cool to name-drop sylvia rivera

girl-assassinsaid:

rebloggin for the true as fuck commentary (bolding mine)

n like, on one hand this moment is decontextualized as fuck, but on the other hand a lot of ppl try to hyper-contextualize it to make it “history” and a very specific historical moment, so we (cis women) can be like “oh so sad that’s how it was in the 1970s, radfems were so awful, but it was only the whole second-wave scene that was the problem, glad that’s over.”

Like have we forgotten the fact that Sylvia only died in 2002? And she died young, if she were still alive she wouldn’t even be 65 yet. I know hella older ppl in NYC who knew her personally, and hella “leaders” of the NYC queer scene pulled horrific shit on her constantly in the 80s, 90s, and 2000s, like literally until the day she died (ppl from Empire State Pride agenda literally went to St. Vincents to beef with her on her death bed) Where are the video tapes/memorializing of that shit?

N now the Manhattan LGBT center on 13th st has a room dedicated to her memory, despite the fact that very center permanently banned her in 1995 for daring to suggest they should let homeless QTPOC sleep there in sub-zero weather.

N now there’s a whole homeless trans youth shelter on 36th st named after her, Sylvia’s Place, that kicked my TWOC friend out on the streets for testing positive for marijuana; failing to recognize how fucked up that is in a shelter named after a woman who struggled with addiction all her life, and was very vocal about the relationship between drug use and the stress of living under constant threats of violence.

N from the late 90s onward rich gays and lesbians openly fought against Sylvia to try to shut down 24/7 access to the piers that she n hella other QTPOC cruised and lived on bc they were bringing down the property values of their multi-million west village apartments.

N like 90% of the individual people who perpetuated fucked up violence against Sylvia are still alive and high-profile leaders in the NYC LGBT “community” today.

So like yes, good, remember the oppressive weight of our history of transmisogyny…but also remember that this shit specifically ain’t even history, it’s the current reality of the NYC queer/trans hierarchy today—like not even figuratively, literally the same people who pulled shit like this on Sylvia are still alive n well n all over NYC cutting the ribbons to the newest Sylvia Rivera memorial n eulogizing her like they never tried to fucking kill her themselves.

Working link (12/30/19)

And all y’all transphobic fucks fucking dare say that we did not fight for your rights. We were there to help you get your rights every step of the way, now fucking do the same for us.

Damn fucking right.

Dedicated to the terf who reblogged with something like “Ooooh woe is me, I guess it’s not enough to control our language, they want to control our thought too oooh I’m but a poor little transphobe” and then blocked me.

Our trans elders fought for your rights and when they turned around you stabbed them in the back.

May you never forget and may you suffer for the evil shit you spout at our sisters and us.

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