No offense, @ninjakittenarmy but if it’s not murder sometimes, depending on the circumstances of the mother, which has nothing to do with the fetus or the method of termination, then it’s not murder. And if it’s not murder, then it follows that they’re not people. And if they’re not people, and they’re inside someone’s body, then it falls under bodily autonomy, period. End of conversation.
I’m sorry to all of the ppl in this thread who’ve been treated like dirt by people who either know full well that it’s about hurting women and trans men (which is gross), or have been drinking the water and somehow can’t think it through (which is also gross but it’s not their fault). I hope that you can find support from people who are educated and qualified to help. ❤️
Roe vs Wade is a Supreme Court ruling made on January 22nd 1973 and is the ruling that has upheld the prevention of abortion bans across America. Abortion is a very sensitive topic, and there are many people calling for a total ban on abortion, regardless of circumstances.
Roe vs Wade found creating state regulation on abortion infringed on a woman’s right to privacy, meaning that no individual state could place a total ban on abortion. It was deemed to contradict the fourteenth amendment which states “nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law”.
In America they have a codified and entrenched constitution - this means it is written down and consistently referred to and is essentially a kind of “rulebook” from which all other judgements are made. The constitution is what is known as a sovereign body, this is the body with the most power (in the UK it is our Parliament). The Supreme Court is made up of 9 justices, always having an odd number so there is never a tie when making a decision. Each justice is appointed by a president and then has to be approved by the Senate to gain their seat. The Supreme Court’s job is to uphold the constitution and the laws written in it - theoretically placing them higher than the president themselves as they are the closest beings to the sovereign body. If a case is thought to be breaking the constitution it faces the Supreme Court (not every single one but I’m simplifying it) and they will deliberate and vote on whether they believe it to be unconstitutional or not and whether an amendment should be made to the constitution.
The constitution was written in the late 1700s and has been amended 27 times in the last 250 years. Arguably it is an outdated document but that’s a discussion for another time.
When the Supreme Court make a ruling it can lead to a constitutional amendment (rare) or it could set a precedent, and setting a precedent is exactly what roe vs wade has done.
So what is the leaked document?
On Monday the 2nd of May, a document was leaked from SCOTUS (Supreme Court of the United States) detailing their apparent plans to overrule the Roe vs Wade decision. Because Roe vs Wade was not written into the constitution, it wouldn’t take more than a majority vote to overrule it and it is something that has been a threat since it was first ruled. The 7-2 majority ruling in favour of preventing states banning abortion, allowed women autonomy over their bodies, it allowed them to make the choices that were right for them and not be dictated by governments who they didn’t support. But it also created an uproar of people who thought this was wrong. Women going to planned parenthood have been screamed at and verbally abused for making this decision for themselves (not to mention that planned parenthood does more things than abortion and contraception). And no woman wants to have an abortion. A woman wants an abortion the same way an animal in a trap wants to chew off its own leg.
In the leaked document it was shown that a majority ruling of 5-4 had ruled to overturn the Roe vs Wade decision, allowing states to regulate abortions as they wish. This decision was made by the 9 justices, 6 of whom are male and 3 of whom are female. There were 4 men and 1 women who voted in favour of overruling the case and all 5 of them were appointed by republican presidents. The most recent being Neil Gorsuch who was appointed by Donald Trump.
If this document is followed through there have been 26 states who are confirmed/highly likely to place a total ban on abortion, with no exceptions or exemptions. This means that you cannot get an abortion under ANY circumstances, including rape, incest or damage to the mother. That’s right, your doctor can tell you that carrying this baby to term will kill you and you will still not be allowed an abortion. In fact, in some states you can be charged with murder and the doctor can be charged with accessory to murder if you try. These will each get you longer sentences than what the rapist would get.
The main argument against abortion is “pro-life”. They are anti abortion because they claim that the foetus has a heartbeat and therefore having an abortion is “murder”. However, these groups only place their focus on an unborn cluster of cells. They do nothing to help or raise awareness about the number of children growing up in orphanages, foster care or unstable home environments. These are children who have lives they are currently living and can feel pain, however, pro lifers choose to place their attention elsewhere and leave these children to suffer. If they were genuinely pro life, they would care about the lives of those who are actually alive, not an embryo that has barely developed gills.
Furthermore, any bans placed on abortion is unlikely to prevent abortions. Instead it will force women to travel outside of the state, it will increase the number of back alley abortions and coat hanger abortions. It will also increase the risk of infection and death in a country that already holds one of the highest maternal mortality rates.
Some current abortion laws in various states:
A Michigan judge has given a convicted sex offender joint custody of a child born to a women he raped when she was 12 years old.
Texas has already placed a ban on abortion from after 6 weeks. Some women may not even know they are pregnant by then.
In Georgia, if you miscarry you could be liable for second degree murder. This could get you 10 - 30 years in prison.
In Arkansas, rapists are allowed to sue their victims if the victim wants an abortion.
In North Carolina, consent cannot be withdrawn once sex starts.
In Ohio, using birth control such as pills, IUDs etc. that can stop the fertilised egg from implanting in the uterus is considered abortion.
Alabama already has a near-total ban on abortion with no exceptions for rape or incest. Doctors could face 99 years for providing abortions.
Some quotes from 2019 republican senators about rape:
“Rape is kind of inevitable like the weather. If it’s inevitable, relax and enjoy it.” - Clayton Williams
“If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to shut that thing down” - Todd Akin
“Rape victims should make the best of a bad situation” - Rick Santorum
“Even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that is something that God intended to happen.” - Richard Mourdock
“If a woman has the right to an abortion, why shouldn’t a man be free to use his superior strength to force himself on a woman? At least the rapist’s pursuit of sexual freedom doesn’t result in anyone’s death.” - Lawrence Lockamn
If the government actually cared like they claim to, they wouldn’t be regulating women’s bodies and blaming them for something that takes two people to do. They would be investing in quality sex education, more sexual health clinics and providing free contraception to prevent unwanted pregnancies. But they don’t and they won’t and that is how you can tell that it is not about the baby but about having control over the woman.
in light of the texas abortion ban here’s a reminder to stop debating what counts as a human, baby, or life with pro-lifers because that is not a debate you can win. you can not win a philosophical debate about what counts as a person, and you will not change their minds.
what can be proven is that in no situation under united states law is an individual legally obligated to lend their body or organs for the sake of another life.
4.5 million people each year are in need of blood transfusion, the entire process of donating blood takes a little over an hour, it’s free, and a single pint of blood can save up to 3 peoples lives, but there is no legal obligation or requirement to donate blood in place.
it is illegal to take organs from deceased peoples’ bodies without permission. CORPSES. bodily integrity is prioritized by law, even after death.
it doesn’t fucking matter whether a fetus is a person, whether a fetus is alive, whether a fetus has a soul. it literally doesn’t matter. pro-lifers set up the argument through that lens (hence their name) to evoke empathy and pity and take the focus away from the actual process of pregnancy, which changes a person’s body FOREVER. that is not an exaggeration. whether the pregnancy is complicated and high-risk or totally smooth sailing, the birthing person will physically never be the same. if they’re lucky, they’ll come out of it with weight gain, differently shaped breasts, and changes to the cervix/vagina. if they aren’t, there’s a fucking laundry list of potential complications that could arise, that may eventually fix themselves, need surgical or therapeutic intervention, or never go away, like varicose veins, separation of the abdominal muscles, incontinence, prolapse, diabetes, postpartum depression, and chronic pain, just off the top of my head. and this makes no mention of the very real possibility of income disruption, as well as the financial cost of giving birth, and the chance of fucking death, which is even higher for underserved communities like black women.
there is no basis for a governing body forcing an individual to lend their body or organs for the sake of another life. that is the argument. period the end.
STILL USE PRIVATE AND SECURE BROWSERS TO MAKE THESE PURCHASES AND CHECK YOUR BANK DISCLOSURES RE: privacy information. Do not post about it and do not leave digital trails about if and when you do this
they will deny baby formula to the children they will force you to birth for the purpose of having them be gunned down by a domestic terrorist a few years later. all before charging $10k for an ambulance ride if one of the bullets happens to graze your own arm
Note, I am finding these threads on the twitter feeds of ICU nurses who are now dreading the horrors that Roe falling will bring to their hospitals. This, on top of the horrors that they’ve seen and continue to see because of the pandemic. They were already exhausted and hanging by a thread.
My very sweet and VERY Catholic coworker: this new abortion law… they’re saying God doesn’t believe in killing the innocent babe to save the wicked mother…. Well I have some news for them about what he did to his own son.
the best thing that we can do right now to fight for abortion rights is donating to your local abortion fund, especially in states with “trigger laws” or laws that will immediately take harsh measures to shut down abortion rights as soon as roe is overturned. If you don’t know your local abortion fund or states with trigger laws, here’s one in Texas,one in Louisiana,one in Georgia,one in West Virginiaandone in Mississippi (all states with such “trigger laws”). There’s so many more beyond the handful i just listed here but times like these are the time to donate and support the incredible work that these organizations do for their communities.
in light of the texas abortion ban here’s a reminder to stop debating what counts as a human, baby, or life with pro-lifers because that is not a debate you can win. you can not win a philosophical debate about what counts as a person, and you will not change their minds.
what can be proven is that in no situation under united states law is an individual legally obligated to lend their body or organs for the sake of another life.
4.5 million people each year are in need of blood transfusion, the entire process of donating blood takes a little over an hour, it’s free, and a single pint of blood can save up to 3 peoples lives, but there is no legal obligation or requirement to donate blood in place.
it is illegal to take organs from deceased peoples’ bodies without permission. CORPSES. bodily integrity is prioritized by law, even after death.
it doesn’t fucking matter whether a fetus is a person, whether a fetus is alive, whether a fetus has a soul. it literally doesn’t matter. pro-lifers set up the argument through that lens (hence their name) to evoke empathy and pity and take the focus away from the actual process of pregnancy, which changes a person’s body FOREVER. that is not an exaggeration. whether the pregnancy is complicated and high-risk or totally smooth sailing, the birthing person will physically never be the same. if they’re lucky, they’ll come out of it with weight gain, differently shaped breasts, and changes to the cervix/vagina. if they aren’t, there’s a fucking laundry list of potential complications that could arise, that may eventually fix themselves, need surgical or therapeutic intervention, or never go away, like varicose veins, separation of the abdominal muscles, incontinence, prolapse, diabetes, postpartum depression, and chronic pain, just off the top of my head. and this makes no mention of the very real possibility of income disruption, as well as the financial cost of giving birth, and the chance of fucking death, which is even higher for underserved communities like black women.
there is no basis for a governing body forcing an individual to lend their body or organs for the sake of another life. that is the argument. period the end.
As a bisexual person, the fact that abortion advocates are now trying to equate pride with killing babies is barbaric. You can’t say love is important and then kill human beings. You can’t say you are progressive and kill human beings.
Bi trans guy here. This is so fucking disgusting I don’t know what to say. I want so badly to have children of my own, and the fact that this is being celebrated… God.
Also PLEASE do not skip past how she ended up pregnant with five children.
IVF.
Likely more than five embryos were created. Some may still be in cold storage, forgotten by a mother who got the children she wanted and doesn’t need them anymore.
It’s also possible that more than five were implanted, but only five survived that initial process.
These two women intentionally embarked on a process where they knew they would be intentionally creating more children than they wanted to bring to term, with the expectation that any “extra children” would sit in storage indefinitely, be thrown away, or be “donated” for research where scientists would pull them apart for their DNA or their stem cells.
The surprise wasn’t that she was pregnant with five. The surprise was that four babies survived who were expected to die in the process of implantation. So two were killed, and two of the “extras” were spared.
IVF is an unethical process that leads to death, destruction, heartbreak, and often financial hardship.
If you did IVF in the past and still have embryos in storage, please consider reaching out to Nightlight Christian Adoptions and placing those children with an adoptive family through the Snowflake Adoptions program. Don’t leave your children waiting in a freezer.
If you are struggling with infertility, please don’t choose IVF. If you are in the United States, go to FertilityCare.org to find a provider near you who will help address the root causes of infertility in a natural, safe, ethical way. If that’s not an option and you really want a child, please consider adopting instead.
In fact, if you have been told you’re a candidate for IVF, you may also be a candidate for adopting an embryo! Instead of creating more embryos to sit in storage, help one of those who have already been created have a chance to be born.
Selective reduction is horrifying, but it’s a symptom of the tragedy of IVF, which itself is a symptom of a society that treats children as property who can be created, bought, sold, and destroyed at will.
I had never heard of this snowflake adoption process and was immediately intrigued since i am a single woman and desperately want to adopt but can in no way afford $20k+ to adopt a child. I’ve been told that i have PCOS so this would be a great option for me.
Well it turns out that it costs $9k+ which should break down to
$3k drugs to assist receptivity but not increase ovary fertility + thawed eggs and implantation service
$1500 to try to match prospective parent with up to three different donor couples…who can choose to reject you even though it’s meant to be 100% anonymous (an additional $500 an application thereafter)
$500 initial application fee
$4k for ?… social service interviews and home visits? And of course they can permanently reject you from consideration anywhere along the process up to implantation appointment
Zero mention of whether single women or same sex couples are eligible. Though you are allowed to use a surrogate to carry the adopted embryo.
Seriously? This reads like an attempt to pocket cash without actually homing embryos or providing a service. It sounds like a scam with government approval. The embryos were donated to them free of charge and they’re making a profit of 50% overhead (as if those other services were provided at cost)? Sounds totally legit.
Why is adoption only permissible for the elites? Just another example of blatant policies that are discriminatory towards the poor and helpless. I wish i could afford to spend $40k, 60k, etc., on some siblings from anywhere in the world that are in desperate need of parents, and to home and raise them, but this seems unlikely when U.S. policy seems hell bent on keeping people like me forcibly relegated to the lower class. I was raised middle class, the lower middle class, but the point stands. The elitists just want to control everything and don’t care who they walk on along the way.
^ exactly, I’ve been meaning to make a post on this. Adoption, whether of a born child or an embryo, is so overcharged and the agency gets all the profit. It’s a total scam and a way to profit off of tragedy.
If you are interested in more affordable options, beginning with foster care usually doesn’t cost as much but it takes a huge emotional toll. There are also some charities that raise money to help people with fertility treatments and probably embryo adoption, I just don’t remember them off the top of my head.
And it’s totally a way to keep “poor” poor away from having babies. We’ve seen how abortion targets impoverished communities, now they don’t want anyone besides rich people to adopt. Which is ridiculous because most of the terrible parents I’ve met have actually been rich people.
TLDR: giving a child a loving home should be affordable and accessible.
