I get that there’s other pairings that make more sense for Ingrid and Ignatz. I get that people have headcanons for both of them that usually lean towards them being thirsty for the same sex. And I get that their support is not the greatest (but I still like it a bit). Hell I don’t think i can rank this as my favorite (not when Ashe/Petra & Lorenz/Leonie exist) However, there’s something very compelling about this pairing that you are all totally sleeping on…if only the supports had followed upon this.
A good chunk of this is just me headcanon dumping as well…so be warned.
Ingrid/Ignatz is a ship that I hadn’t even considered at first and actually paired them off by accident as I had them at A+ and they seemed to be paired off due to Dorothea/Sylvain taking precedent for some reason (I was trying for Ingrid/Sylvain as I found their dynamic interesting). I did really enjoy their support even though it was pretty simple, Ingrid/Ignatz wasn’t really a ship that struck me unlike other ships but then I got to thinking and realized that they really did have a fascinating sort of mirroring of each other.
Ingrid is from House Galatea in the Kingdom of Faerghus. She is the first in a long time to bear a Crest, which is the Crest of Daphnel. House Galatea may be a noble house, but they have fallen on hard times due to infertile lands so her family grew up poor. However, she was the favored child due to her bearing a crest. It is stated that Ingrid has brothers and sisters but nothing is said of birth order. However, I do headcanon Ingrid as being the youngest of her family. This also kind of brings on some dark tones here because this suggests that the Galateas were amongst those whom tended to have babies until they had one with a Crest. She is the hope for a better future for her family.
Ignatz on the other hand is a commoner from the Leicester Alliance. Despite his family’s status as commoner, they are actually wealthy merchants whom reside likely around House Riegan. Ignatz is the second son, which is a bit of a burden for him. Since he is the second son, which means he has nothing to inherit as his older brother would be the one to take over the family business once his parents retire. I headcanon Ignatz as being the youngest as well, with him and his brother being the only two children. He is the hope for a better name for his family.
What ties them together is familial obligations that they both are stuck with, in spite of them going against their personal dreams.
Ingrid is obligated to be married off to a noble family in order to increase her family’s worth and to help save the lands. Her father sends her proposals constantly which she either ignores or flat out rejects, which her father does honor those rejections. However, what Ingrid really wants to do is to become a knight. She dreams of living those lofty ideals of knighthood, protecting those who need protection. I headcanon that her father allows her to attend in hopes that maybe she will find a suitable nobleman husband there (her father seems to think that Margrave Edmund’s son is a viable suitor…even if he did flirt with Count Galatea’s mother that one time…) and really wishes that she’d just stop those lofty dreams of knighthood.
Ignatz is obligated to become a knight in order to bring further honor and prestige to the Victor name. Ignatz’ brother will take over the merchant business while Ignatz is to train to become a knight and to serve a noble house. Headcanon says that Ignatz’ family thinks this could be a pathway to potential nobility. Ignatz, however, wants to become and artist and utilize his talent in painting. He believes his parents would never approve and really wants to appease them and help them bring honor to their family name. However, that dream of painting is just too strong.
I have this feeling that Ingrid would probably look at Ignatz’ situation and be jealous of his parents’ obligations for him. She vies for knighthood and it’s frustrating that Ignatz is here rejecting that path that she so very much wants to take. She would fail to recognize that commoner life is not as simplistic as she thinks it is. She also wonders why he feels like he has to give up painting for the knighthood in the first place.
I also feel like Ignatz wouldn’t understand why Ingrid would want to go into knighthood when she has a crest and is a noble. He wonders why she wouldn’t use her privilege (for lack of a better term) to help others less fortunate and fails to understand that not every noble is wealthy. He’d think it would be absurd that she’d want to subject herself to that as his understanding of knighthood is more something that commoners for honor.
Seriously…they had potential to be one of the best supports in the game if they had gone with this….I may or may not try to write a fic of this.
So I have been kicking around this theory for a while and I think I’ve finally made enough of a breakthrough about it to go on about it.
There’s a device in rhetoric known as the Modes of Persuasion. These are certain modes that are used to help appeal to an audience in order to persuade them to agree with your argument or any other factor that you are looking to achieve. In this case, we’ll be using it in terms of achieving the goal of leadership and change.
The three main modes are - Ethos, Logos & Pathos. Ethos is the appeal to authority/credibility. Example being a dentist’s testimonial about the effectiveness of a toothpaste. Pathos is the appeal to emotions/feelings. Example being basically any of those animal rescue ads with Sarah McLachlan. Logos is the appeal to logic/facts. Example being any sort of charts and figures proving a point. Or just any sort of factual evidence of sorts.
Anyways, so in regards to Fire Emblem: Three Houses, you’re probably wondering what the hell am I talking about? Well here’s the thing - in regards to the three main lords (Edelgard, Dimitri, Claude), they are all lacking in one of these appeals and that is why their methods/paths end up failing without the influence of Byleth for they are the one who helps instill that side of them.
Let’s start off with Edelgard. She has both Ethos and Logos. What she is lacking without Byleth is the Pathos. For her, this is all business. She uses her authority of position to assume power and the facts/figures (church corruption, nobility corruption) to bring forth her own vision. Without Byleth, we see that her path has too much bloodshed as the slaughtering of innocents is seen more as just a part of the war than something that can be avoided. With Byleth, there’s more of a humanity there and the goal is given much more of an emotional impact, especially considering Byleth’s origins.
Now with Dimitri. He’s got Pathos and Ethos. He’s lacking in Logos. He’s got feels for days and the whole being a future king deal is quite a big authority to say the least. His sense of logic, however, has been skewed as we see how he has a serious mental break due to his emotions and goes completely batshit. Without Byleth, he stays in that batshit state and ends up meeting his end in an unfortunate way. With Byleth, he’s able to find the logic necessary (granted it takes time) to become a great leader. He’s able to rein in his emotions for the good of the people.
And finally, onto Claude. As you know how this argument goes, he’s got the Pathos and the Logos. It’s Ethos that he’s missing. He’s known as the Master Tactician and he’s able to come up with schemes and is quite brilliant at it. He’s also got enough of a humanity that when he avoids as much bloodshed as he can (as evidenced by his poison that would only inconvenience someone for a couple days). However, despite being made a legit heir of House Riegan, he does not have enough authority around. People find him deceiving and manipulative. They don’t think he has the credibility and it shows even in the timeskip. With Byleth, he gains that authority and credibility he so seeks to be able to lead. Without Byleth, we see that he ends up pretty much just saying “Peace out” and takes off for his own homeland (or gets killed depending on if you spare him or not in Edelgard’s route)
Of course this does not mean that the lords are lacking in their missing mode. Edelgard does have emotions of sorts, Dimitri does have logic of sorts, and Claude does have authority of sorts. It’s just that without Byleth, those qualities are not able to develop enough to become a viable asset in order for them to succeed in their path.
Maybe this isn’t the most sound theory and maybe I’m just grasping at straws, but I found it very interesting. Feel free to expand upon this if you’d like.
Nah, this is actually pretty well-thought out analysis! I commend you!
It’s always a delight when someone can contrast them while being fair to all of them without oversimplifying them. Indeed I couldn’t put it into such a precise framework as you did, but I did always think that Byleth does sort of balance out all their leadership styles.
Hubert immediately puts them in charge of morale at the temporary encampment the moment he’s sure of their loyalty, he and Edelgard know that they’re not exactly…approachable, PR is not her strength and she tries to be but she struggles to get out of boss mode so with Byleth involved there’s more trust and comradery between her and the others.
They are very much the brains of the operation in Azure Moon (otherwise Dimitri will walk off a cliff and everyone else will follow him), they’re the one who puts a stop to the suicide commando and effectively fills in as the de-facto leader while poor Dimitri is… compromised. Rodrigue and Gilbert frequently ask Byleth what to do & confer with them regarding plans.
And in Verdant Wing Byleth kind of fills out as the presentable figurehead while Claude acts as a mastermind in the back. That’s very clear in their dealings with the church, or flying the crest of flames flag so as not to piss off the Alliance lords for example. Otherwise, Claude is seriously hampered by the fact that ppl just plain don’t trust him and he doesn’t trust them. In AM that contributes to the Gronder fiasco, and in CF Edelgard takes him out in a preemptive strike so he doesn’t try anything while she’s going for her real target - VW is the only route where Lorenz stays loyal to him, for example.
This goes both ways tho Byleth’s an exemptional executive leader both in the strategy and the HR department, but they never really had a cause or vision before meeting [insert favorite house leader]
Interestingly enough, there’s two approaches known as kairos which is the appeal to timeliness and telos which is appeal to purpose. If we put in the hidden route of Seteth as the lord for the SS route, he’d probably be lacking in the kairos mode? I mean he is older and the Church of Seiros seems to be sitting on their hands for a hero to rise.
And in regards to telos, perhaps Byleth is lacking the telos which the other lords are able to give?
So I have been kicking around this theory for a while and I think I’ve finally made enough of a breakthrough about it to go on about it.
There’s a device in rhetoric known as the Modes of Persuasion. These are certain modes that are used to help appeal to an audience in order to persuade them to agree with your argument or any other factor that you are looking to achieve. In this case, we’ll be using it in terms of achieving the goal of leadership and change.
The three main modes are - Ethos, Logos & Pathos. Ethos is the appeal to authority/credibility. Example being a dentist’s testimonial about the effectiveness of a toothpaste. Pathos is the appeal to emotions/feelings. Example being basically any of those animal rescue ads with Sarah McLachlan. Logos is the appeal to logic/facts. Example being any sort of charts and figures proving a point. Or just any sort of factual evidence of sorts.
Anyways, so in regards to Fire Emblem: Three Houses, you’re probably wondering what the hell am I talking about? Well here’s the thing - in regards to the three main lords (Edelgard, Dimitri, Claude), they are all lacking in one of these appeals and that is why their methods/paths end up failing without the influence of Byleth for they are the one who helps instill that side of them.
Let’s start off with Edelgard. She has both Ethos and Logos. What she is lacking without Byleth is the Pathos. For her, this is all business. She uses her authority of position to assume power and the facts/figures (church corruption, nobility corruption) to bring forth her own vision. Without Byleth, we see that her path has too much bloodshed as the slaughtering of innocents is seen more as just a part of the war than something that can be avoided. With Byleth, there’s more of a humanity there and the goal is given much more of an emotional impact, especially considering Byleth’s origins.
Now with Dimitri. He’s got Pathos and Ethos. He’s lacking in Logos. He’s got feels for days and the whole being a future king deal is quite a big authority to say the least. His sense of logic, however, has been skewed as we see how he has a serious mental break due to his emotions and goes completely batshit. Without Byleth, he stays in that batshit state and ends up meeting his end in an unfortunate way. With Byleth, he’s able to find the logic necessary (granted it takes time) to become a great leader. He’s able to rein in his emotions for the good of the people.
And finally, onto Claude. As you know how this argument goes, he’s got the Pathos and the Logos. It’s Ethos that he’s missing. He’s known as the Master Tactician and he’s able to come up with schemes and is quite brilliant at it. He’s also got enough of a humanity that when he avoids as much bloodshed as he can (as evidenced by his poison that would only inconvenience someone for a couple days). However, despite being made a legit heir of House Riegan, he does not have enough authority around. People find him deceiving and manipulative. They don’t think he has the credibility and it shows even in the timeskip. With Byleth, he gains that authority and credibility he so seeks to be able to lead. Without Byleth, we see that he ends up pretty much just saying “Peace out” and takes off for his own homeland (or gets killed depending on if you spare him or not in Edelgard’s route)
Of course this does not mean that the lords are lacking in their missing mode. Edelgard does have emotions of sorts, Dimitri does have logic of sorts, and Claude does have authority of sorts. It’s just that without Byleth, those qualities are not able to develop enough to become a viable asset in order for them to succeed in their path.
Maybe this isn’t the most sound theory and maybe I’m just grasping at straws, but I found it very interesting. Feel free to expand upon this if you’d like.
I can’t believe it’s taken me this long to realize Lorenz x Leonie is just the three houses version of Virion x Sully. I’ve been blind to the possibilities!
You’re right, though I do think Lorenz x Leonie is FAR better written than Virion x Sully.
And it’s kind of funny since I despised Virion x Sully but absolutely adore Lorenz x Leonie (admittedly, some of it is because I really loved Sully x Stahl but the point stands dammit!)
