Alright, in light of some of the stuff I’ve seen about the kenobi trailer I’ve decided to get this out of the way before the show starts
Anakin’s fall was not obi wan’s fault
Like in no way shape or form. Anakin’s fall can be the fault of two people: Anakin and palpatine (because everything is palpatine’s fault).
Owen Lars is valid to want to protect Luke and I love Owen. Like I love him. And I find that scene incredible. But like. Obi-Wan is not to blame. Obi-Wan could not have stopped it. No other master could have stopped it.
End of rant
George Lucas has spoken many times about why Anakin’s fall is and every single time it’s because he was possessive and greedy and fearful about not wanting to let go of people he cared about.
That’s it, that’s the reason Anakin Skywalker fell.
To try to rewrite that with, “But it was Obi-Wan’s fault that Anakin fell!” or “It was the Jedi’s fault that Anakin fell!” is to try to overwrite the entire message and theme of Anakin Skywalker’s fall.
To try to make it about anything else other than Anakin’s refusal to accept Star Wars philosophy (that you need to let go of people when it’s time to let go) is to try to undo everything Lucas was explicitly saying with the movies.
Obi-Wan is allowed to have his survivor’s guilt and Owen is allowed to blame him out of his own terror of what might happen to Luke and trying to get Obi-Wan to leave, because that’s how characters within a narrative work!
But we the audience know what the themes of Star Wars are and that Anakin Skywalker’s fall is because of his own reasons and no one else could have stopped it because it has to be Anakin’s own choices that are the story. Making it someone else’s fault cores and hollows out Anakin’s character and his choices and the entire narrative.
Ok, fair, but consider the possibility that Anakin might not have turned if he’d gotten Anakin some therapy and kept him far away from Palpatine.
Just putting someone in therapy is not a magic fix, in order for therapy to work someone has to open up, and acknowledge their problems, things we see Anakin does not do
That scene in rots with Yoda? That’s basically a therapy session, the advice Yoda gives is sound, but he is limited in what counsel he can offer because Anakin is being vague and will not be open about what is troubling him
We also see this in TCW movie, Ahsoka can tell being on tatooine is bothering him, she tries to talk with him, help him work things out, but he shuts it down, and this is frequently repeated throughout TCW with Anakin
Therapy can’t work if the person refuses to participate
And “kept him away from Palpatine” ?
How?
Palpatine is Chancellor, the Jedi’s (and thus Anakin’s) boss
How exactly do you keep Mr Anakin “I do whatever I want” Skywalker from going to Palpatine of his own volition? Do you put him under house arrest? Oh yes, that will go over well, Anakin totally won’t perceive it as being told he can’t hang out with his friend, he won’t go and do that anyway
And on what grounds do you keep Anakin from Palpatine anyway? Palpatine is suspicious, but there’s no hard evidence that he’s evil, that’s the whole point, he’s covering his tracks, and when he’s with Anakin he’s not doing anything overtly evil, in fact what he’s doing is undermining any counseling Anakin would receive, Palpatine is telling Anakin “they’re wrong you’re right, you’re the greatest Jedi, you don’t need to do what they say”, he’s feeding into Anakin’s ego
But the thing is, at the end of the day, it’s Anakin who chooses to listen, because while the Jedi are telling him what he needs to hear, Palpatine is telling Anakin what he wants to hear
Pay very close attention in chapter 22, cause some VERY good points are made.
Here’s an excerpt:
I’m just saying…♂️
What?
What are you saying,
I don’t know how to explain this to you, but what you posted above…
Its fanfiction
And it still does not actually address how they go about preventing Anakin from having contact with Palpatine
1. Palpatine is Anakin’s/the Jedi’s boss
2. Anakin considers Palpatine his friend
4. Anakin hates being told what to do and has a repeated habit of defying authority to do as he pleases
Again I ask, are the Jedi supposed to put Anakin under house arrest? That totally won’t make Anakin think the Jedi are out to get him/control him, telling him he can’t hang out with someone and physically preventing him from doing so totally won’t make Anakin break out and go to Palpatine anyways
And even ignoring that the above is fanfiction, it’s still looking at what went down with Anakin in hindsight, the Jedi didn’t know what intents Palpatine had towards Anakin, they didn’t know he had any intentions toward him, they didn’t know what Palpatine said to Anakin
And also “leaving a child alone with an adult who has no guardianship of them is always wrong” ?
You are a child and a slave. This cool wizard samurai has risked everything to free you so you can be a wizard samurai too. But the leaders of his coven look down on you and say no, you can’t be a wizard samurai.
Wouldn’t your child brain be a little upset about that? Wouldn’t you think, “Then what was the point of me leaving my still-enslaved mother behind?!”
Then, later, the cool wizard samurai’s apprentice says he’ll teach you. And that’s great. But the circumstances surrounding why HE’S teaching you and not his teacher who freed you probably makes you think that he’s not doing it for my sake; he’s probably just doing it to fulfill his father-figure’s dying wish.
Oh, and there’s this creepy old politician who keeps wanting to spend time with you. But he’s not your guardian. He hasn’t had training in child care or child education. He has absolutely no good reason to hang out alone with you, a child.
And you’re saying that neither Obi-Wan, Yoda, or any other Jedi on the Council should be critiqued for this?!!!
But wait, there’s more!
The Jedi take children from their families before they are old enough to form conscious, emotional attachments (I would argue this means before they have mastered the concept of ‘object permanence’).
Not once did any of the Jedi try to give him specialized training to help him learn how to let go. Based on what I’ve seen and read, I fully expect Obi-Wan to have just said, “Do, or do not; there is no try,” and called that it!
Well, short-wooloo has blocked me, which as far as I’m concerned means I’ve won. Ha!
Remember, children, the Jedi were NOT 100% blameless when it comes to Anakin’s fall!
Hey, please shut up on my post about Obi-Wan not being responsible for Anakin’s fall. You literally came on here, said something about therapy without going into detail about how:
I have zero desire to contribute to the whole argument here, but I would like to just…make a request…
Please don’t use my fics to support any kind of fandom canon arguments. I really love that you loved my fic enough that something resonated with you enough to recommend my fic, but I don’t write fanfics to contribute to any kind of fandom debate or anything like that, I write to have fun. As a result, how I have the characters respond to things depends on the context of the story. Their responses aren’t even how I may personally feel.
As for that particular story, I wrote those characters a specific way that would make sense in the context of that story. It’s also a crack-treated-seriously story, and the serious part that had any intention for a real real life takeaway was an importance of taking care of your mental health, and while the idea of Luke becoming a therapist instead of a pilot and of Vader being forced to go see him is hilariously unrealistic (intentionally so), I wanted to treat mental health scenes positively and seriously. Everything else is just fun.
Again, I love that you loved my story that much, just please remember that at the end of the day, it’s a fanfic, and I only wrote it to have a bunch of fun, not to be used for arguments, or even to argue for a stance on this whole Jedi argument.
