#hufflepuff secondary
Hello, I hope you’re doing well! I’m having a lot of confusion over my secondary, so a second opinion to help me untangle things would be lovely.I’m pretty confident I’m a Snake with a Badger model that determines what I do when my people aren’t involved. Essentially, people are always important, but my people are most important to me. When push comes to shove I will protect them first (or feel worse about myself if I fail to).So far, so good.
I think my secondary is at least a little burnt, in part because I’ve always struggled with interacting with people and don’t tend to think of myself as someone who’s capable of making an impact in people’s lives when it matters. I can remember several situations where I didn’t reach out to someone who needed my help, especially one of mine, because I was convinced that person would never want help from me.That’s proper burnt secondary talk. You knew what you wanted to do, you knew what would feel good to do, but you DIDN’T do it because you didn’t think it would work.
I know better than to do that now, and I’m trying to get better at believing in my own abilities (and the fact that other people can want me around). I’m hoping it’ll help to get a better idea of what those abilities even are.You’re unBurning. Good.
I’ve thought ever since I first discovered this sorting system that I must be an improvisational secondary. I’ve never thought of myself as a fan of plans and prepwork - I get stressed out that I’ll forget important things and be left stranded. I remember back in high school when I was getting used to using public transport, my mum went with me to do a trial run of a route I needed to travel in advance.I was stressed enough about the event I was travelling to as it was, and the trail run made it so much worse, because there was so much to remember, what if I forgot something? What eventually made me feel more comfortable about it was trusting myself to figure it out on the day.What a gorgeous way to explain the difference between a Built (prepwork) secondary and an Improvisational secondary. Trial runs make me feel somuch better and somuch more comfortable. And I’m a built secondary (and I bet your mom is too.)
Nowadays, when I’m travelling somewhere I’m unfamiliar with I’d much rather just leave half an hour early to give myself some breathing room in case I mess up.Perfect. Excellent improvisational secondary problem solving.
Following strict schedules just trips me up too - say I’m doing classwork for the afternoon, for example, I need the freedom to be able to say that actually I’m more in the mood for Subject B than Subject A. I like having space to improvise, and I feel really proud of myself when I pull off something on the fly!Once for a final exam in high school, we had to write an essay for The Lord of the Flies using a set of quotes from the text we’d chosen and memorised beforehand. The essay question was only revealed in the exam, and it turned out to be asking us to write an essay about one specific character - except I didn’t have enough quotes for any one character, I’d deliberately made them very spread out. What I did instead was to argue for the symbol of the Lord of the Flies as a character, and make each paragraph about each different character’s relationship to ‘him’ and what that relationship revealed about the characters, so I could make use of my range of quotes. I’m sure my writing wouldn‘t hold up now, I’ve gotten better at writing since then, but I still think of it as one of the essays I’m proudest of.I would have given you an A. That sounds brilliant.
So that all seems to point to an improvisational secondary, but - reading about Rapid-Fire Birds has made me question whether that’s actually what I’m doing instead, and I have no idea how to tell. What‘s the difference between an improvisational secondary using information they already have to help them improvise, and a Rapid-Fire Bird doing the same thing? To what extent can Birds dislike relying on lists and planning?You’re an Improvisational secondary. A pretty loud improvisational secondary (and almost certainly a Snake because you value the ability to pivot quickly so highly.) Rapid-fire birds can *look* like Snakes from the outside, but it’s a totally different internal experience. A rapid-fire bird might be comfortable improvising their bus route - but only in an area that they alreadyknow super well. Rapid-fire birds look like Snakes… as long as they are operating within their area of expertise, are coming from a place of strength.
And where does looking for more information while you solve a problem, rather than beforehand, fit within the secondaries?Feeling more comfortable and confident looking *around* you while solving a problem (versus bringing in a bag of tricks at the start) is an Improvisational secondary thing.
When I’m involved in a debate about something that relies on a piece of information - a definition of a word, a statistic, some sort of other fact - I’m known as the person who’ll pull out my phone and say ’oh! I’ll Google it!’.This might be a Bird [model] thing, but I’m inclined to think it’s just a person thing.
(Sometimes people don’t seem to get why I do that - they’ll say it looks like I’m taking things too seriously when it’s just a silly discussion for fun? But it just makes sense to me, we need information and that information is easily in reach, why shouldn’t I go get it, silly conversation or not?)Okay, scratch that, I actually think this is a generational thing. *Baby Boomers* get annoyed at me when I do this.
I’m the same way when I research for writing. I don‘t tend to go looking for specific resources when I don’t have a story on them planned, but I love digging into specific subjects and resources and systems to ground a story in, once I have a concept to work with and I know what could be useful.I love digging into complex systems in general, really (hello, sorting hat chats!). But it’s not like I do it because I think it’ll be useful later - unless I know it will be, because it’s relevant to a problem I’ve already been presented with. And I know just having nerdy interests does not a true Bird make.I think you probably have a fun Bird model.
But if I’m not a Bird - or if it’s only a model - which improvisational secondary do I even have? I’ve always figured Lion seems more likely, because I’ve never related to the ‘silver-tongued’ skill of Snakes.I wonder if you relate at all to the idea of single-player snake - constantly pivoting, using their environment, problem solving on the fly. I think of Scotty from Star Trek - someone I would never describe him as silver-tongued, and he’s happy being solitary. But he still problem solves the way a Snake does.
I do tend to be pretty stubborn and dig my heels in when I’m challenged, in a quiet sort of way. But the difference between charging or swerving when you head for something has always seemed hard to grasp, for me. When you’ve got something to go for, you just… go, and some obstacles can be barged through and some you can’t, so you try and then go around.I actually think that’s a very Snake way of putting things. A Lion would say that you *can* punch though everything, given enough will power and enough time. It’s what makes their energy so intoxicating, and where a lot of their power and trustworthiness comes from. They keep at something until they fail.
(oh and also ~ I have noticed that generally, Lion secondaries make no sense to Snake secondaries and vice versa.)
I do relate more to a Lion’s interacting with everyone mostly the same - with ‘varying degrees of awkwardness’, as I think another asker phrased it - rather than creating masks for everyone on the fly. But I’m not sure anymore if that’s powerful for me or if it’s just… all I can do. This goes back to being burnt socially, I think - I feel like I‘m working with nothing at all when I talk to people.Whatever secondary I’ve got, I don’t think I’m capable of using its ‘multiplayer’ skills very well. Or at least, I haven’t learnt to yet, and I feel like I‘ve gotten worse. Although, more than a year of not being able to talk to most people in person hasn’t helped.Yeah, you and me both. You’re a little burned about this, which makes sorting hard. You might just be a Snake who… isn’t very social.
And as for Lions valuing authenticity… I do and I don’t? I’m not sure if that’s just because I’m a private person and I don’t like exposing all of myself and my interests and opinions, it makes me feel vulnerable.I know it sounds crazy, but if you were a Lion, that would make you feel strong.
But I won’t lie about myself if someone asks about something I’m not willing to share, I’ll usually find something that’s still true and answers their question but’s less personal. To what extend do Lions do that?Generally, “I don’t owe strangers the real me” is just… not something Lions secondaries think. Sometimes they lower their intensity. But they are unusual because they feel best and strongest when they put themselves out there.
But I also think that any ‘mask’ you create is still, to a great extent, a part of you and a reflection of who you are. People talk about it like you have a ‘core’ that is completely you and then a performance you make on top is automatically ‘fake’. That doesn’t make sense to me.That’s because you’re a Snake. If you were a Lion, you would relate more to this idea of an ideal presentational “core.”
Performances can be helpful to express yourself, in a sense. And everything you make is self-portrait.)That is an incredibly Snake thing to say. Also, Snakes have a tendency to conceptualize their masks as “art.”
In any case - I hope this wasn‘t too long. Thank you for helping me sort through all of this!You are very welcome. I thought this one was really interesting.
Rapid-fire Bird here, totally agree with Wisteria. That’s Snake.
I would 100% be trying to figure out the public transportation in advance–and I’d also have cash on me to call a cab as a backup.
This is going to sound weird, but if I suddenly moved to an area where there was a lot of public transportation and I was using it to get around, I’d actually start researching how bus systems work in general. How do you design a system to cover as much of a sprawling metropolitan area as possible? What kind of timing considerations does that entail? And then, how has my city tried to solve those problems? What lines cover which areas of the city, and how does the signage look?
Understanding that first would help me remember not just my route that day, but how to fix it if I got off on the wrong stop or something. And then, of course, it’s widely applicable; I’ll remember it when I need to take a bus somewhere else. In fact, I’m likely to remember it when solving an almost totally unrelated problem, because there’s some vaguely relevant model or design consideration in it that I can use
…most people probably wouldn’t start there, I realize! most people would probably just memorize their route and maybe download their local area maps on their phone. Some people probably wouldn’t even do that!
But for me, the first impulse trying to use something new is, “how does this work?” I might only realize later on that I’m doing way more work than I actually need to
I mean, I don’t do that for everything (some systems are exceptionally boring), but if there’s something new and intimidating or overwhelming, I’m probably going to try to understand it as a whole first. Is that much work stressful? Well, sort of; it’s the situation that’s stressful, and if the system is hard to understand then that doesn’t help. But the research itself is sort of automatic.
If I do get that understanding, though, then later–you know, the only part other people usually see?–I probably look very chill and Improvisational. It probably looks like I’m getting lucky, when I just somehow know where things are and what they’re going to do next. The pile of maps and string of 3am YouTube videos I went through beforehand tends to be less visible
While I was writing my response, I literally thought. “Hm. How would a Rapid-Fire bird figure out public transit? Maybe they would like… research public transit in general… nah, that’s crazy, no one would really do that.”
In the days before smartphones, if I needed to use public transportation I would look up the exact map I needed online, then copy it down in the little notebook I carried with me. I also asked for directions CONSTANTLY. And New Yorkers do not deserve their reputation for rudeness, everyone was was wonderful to me.
(I am aware that both of these are…. really Badger secondary problem solving methods…)
(Look, you have double Birds listed as the mad scientist Sorting for a reason…)
This delights me your intuition was right the first time lol. In fairness to you, though, I also read my post back like “…this is pretty ridiculous, do I actually do that often enough to say it’s a thing?”*
…and then I remembered my Actual experience trying to figure out how to navigate the train system in Chicago, and reading all kinds of maps and listings for lines that were nowhere near the area I was in, trying to work out how they interacted
I still managed to fall on my face there. Long story. Even the ridiculously prepared (and/or easily distracted) nerds are not infallible xD
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*yes. yes I do. one time I started reading about how to make cold process soap and then got distracted researching how soap works on a molecular level. which sounds like the kind of thing that’d never be relevant later, but I’ve never bought the huge ripoff that is micellar cleansing water** sooo
**recipe: one squirt of castille soap, a whole bunch of water, and even more capitalism, mixed up in a bottle and sold for $7 with a label sporting the phrase “new micellar technology!” –have fun toppling Garnier!
It’s easy to simplify down Lion secondaries. You hear a lot about Lions giving inspirational speeches (which they do) being generally terrible liars (which they are) and also charging (which… yeah, they do that too).
But I’m starting to think that might be a slightly misleading way to think about them. “Charging” implies speed, fiery hot-headedness, maybe even temper. And lions aren’t *angry* so much as they’re *committed* (or you know, stubborn). A Lion will pick a direction and just go, until they smash into a wall. They won’t pick a new plan until their old plan has obviously failed, which is what makes their improvisation look so different from the constantly adapting, constantly shifting Snake way of doing things.
There is a very confident energy to the Lion secondary. Very “might as well happen,” “you know what, screw it, let’s do this.” They just go for it, and if they’re in over their head they just keep going. They’ll figure it out. The best way out is through, that’s a very Lion secondary philosophy.
That’s one thing that connects Lion primaries and Lion secondaries. They pretty much have to actually be standing in a pile of rubble before they’re able to look around and go ‘… this doesn’t look right.’
There is this thing that Badger secondaries do that *looks* like charging, but isn’t really.
If a Lion secondary is a battering ram, then a Badger secondary is a coiled spring. They’re put in this mass of prep-work, but Badger pre-work tends to be super low-key or even invisible, so it *looks* like they’ve gone zero to sixty in five seconds, but that’s not the case.
When I moved out, I spent months quietly researching apartments, talking to people in the area I wanted to live, and putting things in order. Then when the right apartment opened up, I was moved in four days later. It sure looked like a charge to my Lion secondary sister, but it absolutely was not.
I’ve probably reblogged this before, but I’ve just found it again and it’s relevant to a recent post, and also:
#maybe this is a built secondary thing #maybe bird secondaries do this as well
which is really funny because I read this post thinking: oh hey, it’s the Badger/Lion equivalent of when a rapid-fire Bird sec draws from our huge stockpile of resources and background knowledge and suddenly we look like a Snake for twenty minutes xD
Hang on, lemme write a post.
