While we’re on the topic of Civil War having weird narratives: Peter Parker’s speech about being a Superhero completely aligns with Steve’s worldview, not Tony’s… yet Marvel had Spidey side with Tony. It makes his storyline a little muddled, because while the narrative objectively connects Peter to Tony through their heart-to-heart conversation, Marvel wrote Peter as being very similar to Steve. With the characterization they gave us, there’s no way Peter would have joined Tony’s side if he knew anything about the fight.
Peter says to Tony ”If you can do the things that I can, but you don’t, and then bad things happen… they happen because of you” .
Which is the same philosophy that Steve has, and says to Tony twice in this movie: first when discussing the Accords – “What if there’s somewhere we need to go, but [the UN] won’t let us?” – and then later, in a more personal tone: “If I see a situation pointed South, I can’t ignore it”.
Both Steve and Peter believe their powers almost obligate them to help people whenever they can, because they can. Taking that choice to help out of their hands doesn’t make them any less responsible for what occurs – it just shifts the blame. Which is why Steve won’t sign the Accords, and Peter helps people even though he’s just a kid who’d prefer to play football. They want to help, they can help… so they do. It’s that simple honesty and true belief that really defines Captain America, and we see it here in Peter, too.
Tony accepts Peter’s answer even while realizing that it’s Steve’s argument (which is weird, since he fought with Steve on the same statement only hours before), and replies “So you want to look out for the little guy, do your part, make the world a better place?”. Peter agrees and reiterates that the ‘little guy’ is his reason for being a superhero.
Which is interesting, because Steve has always been the little guy from Brooklyn who just wanted to help make the world a better place. Steve and Bucky are the underdog in this fight… not Tony and the government. This aligns Peter with Steve even more, but Marvel still tries to connect him to Tony over their intelligence and shared love of technology.
Tony gets Peter to fight for his side using Steve’s ideology.And Marvel doesn’t really acknowledge the irony in that. It’s especially unsettling when Peter parrots back what Tony said about Steve, not realizing it’s actually Tony’s problem in the film: “You’re wrong, but you think you’re right. That makes you dangerous”.
Give me a moment - I’d like to rewrite Tony’s speech to Peter and give it the same meaning in different words:
“Your work could be a gift to mankind. You could shape the century. Without you, we’ll fail, and the Avengers can’t give the world the freedom it deserves.”
Sorry, Marvel; from where I’m standing, Iron Man has officially become a bad guy.
I also liked how Peter told Cap that Tony “said you’d say that, and you’d be wrong”. The way Tony handled the situation with Peter was just wrong on so many levels and illustrates why *Tony* is the one who needs oversight. Because Tony is a man who does not seem to learn from his mistakes.
In AoU he builds a killer robot(it’s purpose is to protect in place of the Avengers, don’t tell me it wasn’t programmed to kill), so not only is he in the weapons business again but when it goes wrong he takes the fleshy robot downloaded with Ultron’s consciousness and adds some Jarvis and a magic space rock that has the power to enslave and by the grace of God or I don’t know what he manages to Forrest Gump(thank you “The Mexican”) his way out of an even worse disaster.
In Civil War he’s confronted by the mother of a young man who died in the Sokovian disaster. Laying aside how offensive it is that it has to be an American to die before Tony(and we the audience in the US of A?) has it really hit home the kind of massive collateral damage his invention caused and resolves that everyone(kthxTony, we all knew about the killer robot and fully supported building it to make us obsolete) has to do better. As soon as things aren’t going his way he brings in a young man without the consent or knowledge of his guardian to be his ace in the hole in another potentially fatal confrontation.
I love RDJ, I enjoy Tony at times even if he lashes out and I would never be able to work around someone who has so little respect for anyone’s boundaries but his own. This makes it very difficult for me to trust Tony as a character to do the right thing. I think he wants to, and means to but he’s not learning and when he doesn’t get it right things go horribly wrong and others suffer for his hubris.
He wants to and means to, yes. But Tony Stark is a concrete example of how the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Sorry, Marvel; from where I’m standing, Iron Man has officially become a bad guy.
I enjoyed Stark in the same I’d enjoy an antagonist…because I thought he was being played as a sad sack antagonist. I was entertained by his backdoor rationalization and feeling bad for the poor bastard and according to fandom, that shouldn’t… be… happening? Wasn’t that the point of his character in the movie or was I not meant to find it all entertaining?
The thing is that he’s fucking up big time, especially with Peter but I really, honestly thought the script was in on it– that he was supposed to be Strong and Wrong and that we were meant to see him laid low and stubborn and enjoy the process and lead up (the fight which included Sppiderman’s exposition/plotsplaining) to the downfall/asswhoopin/stalemate.
Is that not what the text was playing at?
Did writers,Markus and McFeely completely underestimate how 100% done people were with Stark after AoU– that it was too late to try to turn it around?
