#ti loop

Anon wrote: Isfj. Recently found out that a colleague is anti vax & doesn’t believe in sci. I feel rlly conflicted now. I like her, she’s not rlly harming anyone + if I step in her shoes I can sorta get why she thinks like that. But every time she’s anti research/sci, I get v irritated. I don’t like superstitions & dislike when things aren’t based on facts. She has a lot of privilege and implies that she’s victimized & oppressed over sth she herself chose.

I and my social circle have also always been anti anti-vaxx. I guess I realized I made it my identity to be ‘liberal’, open-minded, critical thinking, accepting (which ironically includes being anti anti-vaxx). But turns out I’m a lot more judgmental and black and white than I thought. And ok I guess I judge her for her privilege. But I have a lot of privilege too. Idk. Everything I judge her for, I have a counter point for too. My thoughts are a mess. Advice?

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I don’t think you fully understand what it means to be judgmental. You seem to be confusing “critical thinking” and “critical judgmentalness”. The two are not the same. It’s good that you’re sensing a problem here, as that produces an opportunity to learn and grow.

- Critical thinking involves respecting factual information, weighing information objectively, and making decisions impartially. If you are the kind of person who values the truth and acting in accordance with the truth, then you will take on the duty to clarify the facts, be fair-minded in your evaluations, and correct bad decisions that were biased or prejudiced in some way. Does this duty extend to others? Only in cases where harm is being done, and you would certainly need to justify that the moral harm is severe enough to warrant interfering with someone else’s autonomy and agency.

- Judgmentalness involves being critical for egotistical reasons, meaning that the criticism is usually unwarranted, excessive, or ultimately pointless. Usually, judgmentalness is a means to cover up a psychological problem such as an inferiority complex, helplessness, or chronic resentment. Being judgmental means you cherry-pick “facts”, you manipulate information to suit a narrative of your liking, and you make decisions that favor yourself at the expense of others. If you are a judgmental person, you don’t value truth as a high ideal, rather, you only value your own version of the truth and ignore everything else. The main goal is to ensure that you don’t have to confront the truth of your underlying psychological problem.

Full disclosure, I’m on your side of this issue, so I can sympathize. However, it’s important to acknowledge that controversial issues are confusing because there’s a lot going on that needs sorting out, which makes them open for debate. If you were in possession of the “Absolute Final Truth”, shouldn’t you and everyone automatically bow down to the power of it, because there would be no grounds whatsoever to object to it? But that’s not the case, because the issue is not as clear cut as you believe.

In other words, when it comes to debating, both sides usually have some important points to make, regardless of how poorly the participants are communicating them. This is not to say that you must relent, submit, or be friends with people you disagree with. It means that the only way forward is to acknowledge that there might be some merit in what they’re saying, even as you disagree with their approach or their final conclusions.

In your situation, you are coming from the standpoint of someone who respects critical thinking and the truth… at first. However, whenever you meet someone you strongly disagree with, you easily spiral into judgmentalness, and then start engaging in social status games. Why? Because you, yourself, equate your beliefs with your identity. This reveals something about your ego development.

This habit of identifying with beliefs creates the problem of being unable to address false beliefs without feeling personally attacked and/or using personal attacks during what should be a calm and reasonable debate. It makes communication very difficult. Being wrong is not the same as being bad, so you can call out falsity without attacking people personally, can’t you? Is it not possible to separate a person from their beliefs or behaviors?

Stepping back to be objective isn’t easy, because we each have an ego that wants what it wants and leads us to obfuscate the truth. But objectivity is necessary for developing the ability to influence and persuade people in the right way. Additionally, lack of objectivity often reveals a lack of humility that enables arrogance in your own beliefs. Walking around thinking that your beliefs are superior, you’ll often find yourself locked into resentments, warfare, or stalemates, with lots of hard feelings to go around. It’s not great for your Fe development, is it?

Anon wrote: If the INFJs’ chief strength is to read/understand people and their perspective + skilfully compassionately move through relationship conflicts, isn’t it reasonable even at their healthiest to feel a bit sadness at the low likelihood of being reciprocated/met in relationship? Sure, they can’t expect other types who have other skills/interests to want to understand the INFJ in the same way but if that’s what the INFJ brings to the table it seems that relational “inequality” is guaranteed.

Also probably very related, a trend I’ve noticed in my friends’ relationships between an Fi-user/Fe-user is that the Fi user seems to get all their needs met in the relationship where the Fe user is compromising in a very big way(s) and seems fairly miserable in the words they use to describe their relationship and in their emotional state/health. Their life and their choices, but it seems unequal to me and I’m wondering if that is what to expect as an Fe user.

One partner requires outside validation and primarily enjoys the experience of meeting others’ emotional needs. One person requires their individuality to be honored and is driven to get their needs met. Looking at those facts, it seems again “guaranteed” to be unequal. I know Ti is meant to come in and balance Fe out but from what I’ve seen Fi is quite powerful in its pure desire, and gets very uncomfortable when it doesn’t get what it wants.

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You couldn’t be more incorrect in your characterization of Fe. But what you describe is a common example of how immature FJs misuseFe in a submissive/passive way, as well as misuse Ti to draw illogical/false comparisons to deflect responsibility for the problem.

I’m assuming that you are INFJ and your question was prompted by last week’s question about how to provide better mental health help to clients - relationships that aren’t meant to be equal? Don’t take information out of context and try to apply it to a completely different kind of relationship.

At its root, Fe is about establishing harmony. Do you understand what harmony entails? You can’t establish true harmony between two individuals if one of them remains in a state of disharmony, can you? A sense of fairness is baked right into the heart of Fe.

Note that Fe is an extraverted function and the word “establish” is a verb. If you think it’s enough to just sit back and speculate about people for the sake of quelling conflict, then you’re using Fe in a superficial, fake, egotistical, or defensive way. You haven’t applied Fe properly - constructively- so you get poor results. This is why I distinguish between immature and mature use of functions, to help people identify function misuse and correct it for the sake of personal growth.

You bring up the issue of being misunderstood. It doesn’t matter who you are, you can’t force people to be interested in you. It doesn’t matter what your type is, not everyone is going to understand you. That said, are you able to take advantage of the opportunities when they arise, when someone does show interest in you? Submissive/passive use of Fe leads to INFJs just sitting there hoping to be validated and understood, as though they don’t have the power to take charge of social situations. To be understood requires constructive use of Fe, i.e., putting yourself out there and actively sharing/communicating as necessary for people to know the real you.

What’s actually unfair is expecting other types to be like you and be able to do your style of information gathering when they don’t have your functional stack. You kind of gloss over the detail where I say that communicatingwith people is vital for understanding their needs. It doesn’t matter what your type is, communication is key for a successful relationship. For a personal relationship to be healthy, communication has to go BOTH WAYS. Being jealous/resentful that others are able to communicate their needs and get them met doesn’t solve your problem, does it? All jealousy/resentment does is produce zero-sum thinking, leading you to believe that relationships are about win or lose, be the master or the slave, and then you misuse Ti to draw up the wrong kinds of rules and boundaries. This warlike mentality is a direct obstacle to harmony.

Different people bring different things to the table and, realistically, it makes harmony very difficult to establish. Anyone who says relationships are easy is either naive or delusional. If you were using Ni+Fe properly, you’d be able to generate a full and accurate understanding of each person’s strengths and limitations, and then work within that realistic framework, creativelyandcollaboratively, to ensure that everyone’s needs are addressed.

Instead, you’re essentially saying that difference inevitably leads to inequality, which implies that equality can only come from sameness. And since it isn’t possible for everyone to be the same, you conclude that equality is impossible and throw your hands up in the air helplessly. You haven’t understood what inequality means and how it really arises in your relationships.

You are basically blaming the functions for the problem rather than acknowledging that the person using the function is psychologically immature, has certain unresolved psychological issues, and doesn’t know how to use the function appropriately, in this case to use Fe to establish harmony. It’s not Fe’s fault that you misinterpret “harmony”. Fe isn’t the cause of the problem; it merely reveals the problem to you. Don’t shoot the messenger; thank the messenger. Being a mature person doesn’t mean you never misuse your functions. When a mature person uses a function and gets a negative result, they take it as an opportunity to learn and grow, rather than retreat into victimhood or look for something to blame. Yes, Ti development is necessary because it urges you to take full responsibility for the fact that your own decision making is what causes your problems.

When you always leave yourself on the back burner, you eventually lose touch with yourself and have poor knowledge of your own needs. How can people know you well when your understanding of yourself is so superficial? How can you communicate information that you’ve lost access to? You are the one putting your needs aside to focus on the needs of others - it is this decision of yours that creates the inequality. What you and the miserable FJs you’re observing ought to be addressing is: 1) the real reason you place yourself in a lesser position in relationships, and 2) why you keep willfully ignoring the disharmony (as signaled through Fe) that is caused by treating yourself so unfairly in relation to others. Hint: “Self-Worth”

Anon wrote: I have observed a thing in me, I’m Infj and sometimes i get really hostile and too questionable and challenging in arguments. Or even to explain an issue i use personal examples and correlations that might not need to be connected but seem logically similar to me. The problem is i don’t want to be harsh, hostile i want to be able to gently reason like Jane Goodall as you typed her Infj.

As others get offended and have rebuked me for my tone of arguing. I really hate this in me. My intention is not to hate someone but my way of explaining it; making people realise a different view point comes across really disagreeable. While i try to be balanced now and then but sometimes when i get emotionally involved then i want to have gentle tone in such situations as well.

My intj sibling seems more socially appropriate than me, even though in generalised way Fe users are who take outside objective value judgements. My sibling just shows an expression of shock and disapproval at my way of correlation reasoning, even when i am not harsh, my way of say using someone’s personal cause they relate with to explain a cause they don’t, seems and sounds harsh to my intj sibling.

I tell myself that it is because i have poor communication skill, need self management but unless I’m angry i am unable to be direct, clear and get interrupted, confused, questioned often. I’ve a very effacing, gentle tone when calm, but i don’t give very articulate and precise points then. I really don’t like how i speak, feel guilty and ashamed at the same time. Esp when my sibling gets offended and disapproves of me i feel ashamed of my self and want to change all such things in me. What would you suggest?

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Jane Goodall stands confidently in her knowledge and skills. She uses truth rather than anger to change minds. Can you say the same? There are several issues to unpack:

1) Ti loop Problems: Ti loop enables a harsh, critical, and disapproving attitude. Tertiary temptation is labeled as such because it tempts you with a false sense of power that is ultimately self-sabotaging and even self-destructive in extreme cases. Power is addictive to people who feel powerless, victimized, disenfranchised, inadequate, or inferior. While it feels good to use the power of Ti loop in the moment as a means to cover up your negative feelings, in reality, it only poisons your mind and exposes the worst aspects of who you are, hence the guilt and shame. If you don’t want to rely on Ti loop to conduct your life, then you have to be willing to i) give up the false sense of power it grants you, ii) confront the deeper psychological problems that fuel your addiction to power, and iii) commit yourself fully to proper Fe development. It’s your choice to make.

2) Low Emotional Intelligence: Anger can be a productive emotion, if and only if you know what to do with it. It is sadly the case that most people are just hijacked by anger into revenge or retaliation. Once your mind is emotionally hijacked, you’re not being rational, you’re not being your best self, and you certainly don’t have the presence of mind to work toward positiveoutcomes with people. Anger is a justifiable response to the harm of injustice, unfairness, inequality, or moral violations. But is attacking people the right way to address these problems? As much as you try to convince yourself otherwise, two wrongs don’t make a right. Vengefulness only adds more hurt to the situation, and, worse, vengeful action means that you are perpetuating the cycle of violence and becoming a part of the problem yourself, hence the guilt and shame. A person with good emotional intelligence will not be hijacked by anger but, rather, take the anger as a sign that something is wrong and use the anger as motivation to come up with the right way to address the problem. As long as you remain enamored with the power that anger grants you to dominate and control the people you disapprove of, you put yourself at great risk of losing your moral compass. Another point you might want to consider is that, if you are easily hijacked by emotion, it is also exceedingly easy for others to manipulate your anger and use it for their own nefarious ends.

3) Low Self-Awareness: People who go on “moral crusades” like to believe that they’re righting a wrong. However, when you observe the methods they choose and the negative results they get, it becomes obvious that what they’re really doing is feeding their own ego dramas. Perhaps they’re trying to cover up their own hurt, helplessness, or inadequacy. Perhaps they want to prove something about themselves to the world. Perhaps they want glory, fame, or fortune to satiate their greed. The point is that their moral crusade is really about ego and they don’t realize it. Their intentions aren’t noble and, unfortunately, their self-deception not only harms themselves but others as well. Someone who truly cares about a moral cause acts out of compassionand will humbly and diligently choose the best methods of advancing the cause. They would use good critical thinking skills to carefully prepare their case, plan out their method of engagement, and learn from their mistakes about what works or doesn’t work to get people on board. Their intentions are honorable. Their emotions aren’t out of control. They channel hurt into empathy. They channel anger into passion. Do you have the self-awareness to check your intentions before you act upon people?

I have written about these topics before, so do a search.

Anon wrote:

:) hi, mbti notes. I was reading about your friendship post and I have a question to ask. You said “Personal sharing is a way to show the other person that you’re willing to give more, and then you observe whether they’re able to give you equally in return”. I have this problem in which I share an opinion or something about me and others just look at me blank and seem uncomfortable. I have this feeling that there is something wrong with me.

A relationship is a two-way street. A healthy relationship won’t develop properly without commitment and effort from BOTH parties. Do not ignore the vital detail of observing whether someone is able to give back to you equally in return.

What is the difference between sharing and just talking about yourself? You have told me before that people are not interested in talking to me because I am only interested in talking about me. The truth is I share about me with the purpose of also getting something back, that people also share something about themselves. But in most cases, a lot of people only look at me like I make them uncomfortable.

“Sharing” means talking about things that BOTH parties can take an interest in - it is found through mutualityandreciprocity. Talking about yourself may or may not constitute sharing, since it depends on whether the other person can pick up what you’re putting out. Talking about yourself without any consideration for how the other person feels or responds is an indication of poor social skills. Two people need not have exactly the same interests/beliefs/values to get along. They mostly need empathy, which, in communication, is often expressed through curiosity and open-mindedness. If you want to know more about someone, it’s important to ask questions and allow them to share as well. It sounds like both you and the people you talk to have poor social skills.

I have come to believe that maybe is because my personality is not common and what I talk about is not common. A lot of people I have encountered in life have told me I am not usual. I am very different to most people. And that is perhaps because I am INFJ and my personality is not something you see a lot in a country full of SPs and SJs. But i feel inferior. I feel uncapable of making relationships because I don’t find people like me… I feel lonely. so I try to make friends but it doesn’t turn out well. I have been learning to do small talk and such but at the end I feel empty because there is not much opportunities to actually get closer to someone. It is very difficult to find someone Intuitive in my country. Even more someone who is interested in being my friend. what do I do?

Why would you want to be friends with someone who doesn’t like you or isn’t interested in you? Stop wasting energy barking up the wrong tree. As soon as it becomes plainly obvious that someone isn’t interested in being your friend, their opinion of you becomes irrelevant. Someone who knows next to nothing about you is NOT going to have a well-informed opinion about you. If you choose to take their ignorant opinion to heart anyway, that’s self-inflicted pain. Then, you’re choosing to rely on others to define you.

You can’t be friends with everybody. Not everybody is going to like you or understand you. These are simple facts of life that are true for everyone. It is quite unnecessary to take these facts so personally by making pointless judgments about your “inferior” worth and/or their “bad” character. This kind of critical judgmentalness is what leads to Ti loop problems. Accept the fact that the relationship isn’t meant to be and simply move along. When you can’t accept reality, your defense mechanisms rise up to blow situations out of proportion, which keeps you stuck in negativity. Stop turning minor setbacks into major existential crises.

Being lonely as a minority is one thing, but being possessed by victim mentality is a very different thing. Unfortunately, it is true that being a member of a minority group means that you have to work harder to find kindred spirits, and you have to put more thought into how to create a sense of family/community for yourself. What’s worse, you might also have to fend off prejudice and discrimination. But difficult doesn’t mean impossible. Any long term goal/reward worth striving for is usually quite difficult to achieve. If you want something badly enough, you keep looking until you find it or you keep working until you achieve it. But you won’t be able to persist if you become lost in a mess of Ti loop problems.

Most importantly, it is very easy to forget that there are also many positive aspects and advantages that come from being part of a minority group. You’re wishing to assimilate or waiting for someone to validate you, but the healthy path is to learn how to validate yourself. You have just as much right to exist as anyone. You have just as much right to self-actualize as anyone. You are lost in loneliness and too focused on some ideal end goal, so you forget that the processof navigating minority status can bring many growth benefits and make you a truly stronger person as a result. This inner forgetfulness of yourself is the cause of your shame and low self-worth, not the people out there who misunderstand you. Until you are able to understand and accept yourself, how are you going to teach others to understand and accept you? How will they see what they’re missing out on by not being friends with you when you don’t see it yourself? Lack of self-acceptance is the part of the equation that you’re missing.