I’m kind of glad to hear that everyone does this. Because it means it isn’t colonizer bullshit, it’s what everyone does. It’s just people discovering new things. Everyone goes:
“Oh hey these people have their own style of [language A’s word for thing. Say, what do you call it?”
“Oh it’s [language B’s word for thing].”
“Got it, it’s [language B’s word for thing] variety [language A’s word for thing]”
This is seriously not colonizer bullshit, it’s just one of the common ways that loan words work.
linguistics side of tumblr please talk about how this is a type of reduplication
Andso, a finger on the monkey’s paw curled.
This isn’t a type of reduplication. Reduplication is a very specific linguistic phenomenon which refers to the duplication of phonemes, morphemes, words, or whole ass clauses, as a way to changing meaning, add or remove emphasis, or a whole bunch of other things. But it’s specifically about the repeatition of sound: ‘bread’ is reduplicated to ‘bread bread’ or ‘brebread’ or ‘breadad’ or what have you depending on your reduplication scheme; and not ‘naan bread.’
Naan Bread and such are an example of an entirely different linguistic phenomenon centering reduncency, except it isn’t the sound that’s redundent but the meaning assigned to the sound. It’s the broadest terms, naan bread is a tautology(linguistics); narrowing in on specifics, it’s Semantic Pleonasm, in which two words which convey similar information are paired together to give the best combination of information; Think “tuna fish” for a monolingual example of variety-category semantic Pleonasm. Then getting to specifics, we have Bilingual Tautological/‘Pleonastic’ Expressions, in which the combination of words are sourced from two differet languages. This is where we find ‘Naan Bread’ and everything else this post is talking about.
An example of reduplication, if I have got this right, would be to say “bread bread” to mean that you want the local or usual kind of bread rather than any kind that would require specification.
“Could you pick up some bread when you go out?” “Sure, what kind? Naan bread, challah bread, pita bread …?” “Ugh, just breadbread.”
[image description: excerpt of text about ancient Oxyrhynchus:
Yet we know far more about Oxyrhynchus as a functioning town, and abou tits people as living individuals, than we do about many more glamorous ruins.
We know where Thonis the fisherman lived, and Aphynchis the embroiderer, and Anicetus the dyer, and Philammon the greengrocer. We knkow how much farmers had to pay when they brought in dates and olives and pumpkins to market. We know that on 2 November, AD 182, the slave Epaphroditus, eight years old, leaned out of a bedroom window to watch the castanet-players in the street below, and slipped and fell and was killed. We meet Juda, who fell off his horse and needs two nurses to turn him over; Sabina, who hit Syra with her key and put her in bed for four days (ancient keys are good sollid objects); Apollonius and Sarapias, who send a thousand roses and four thousand narcissuses for the wedding of a friend’s son.
“The best translations into English do not, in fact, read as if they were originally written in English. The English words are arranged in such a way that the reader sees a glimpse of another culture’s patterns of thinking, hears an echo of another language’s rhythms and cadences, and feels a tremor of another people’s gestures and movements.”
I remember first reading Inkheart and at some point stopping to say to myself “I don’t know why, but I’m getting a feeling that this was translated from the German.” And I looked it up, and yes it was.
I don’t speak German, I don’t read a lot of stuff translated from the German, but something about the prose reminded me – in a way that nothing else ever quite has, even other works in translation, even other stories with similar plot or theme – of a work translated from the German that’s very close to my heart: The Neverending Story.
j r r tolkien named the elves in the Silmarillion the same way t s eliot named the cats in Cats (2019) and i can prove this to you with textual evidence
cat naming traditions as outlined in Old Possum’s Book of Practical Cats vs noldorin naming traditions as outlined in Laws & Customs Among the Eldar
now you too are cursed with this knowledge
The Naming of Elves can’t be any old label This isn’t just silly authorial games. You may think that some are as bad as “Clive Staples” But I tell you an Elf must have THREE OR MORE NAMES. First of all, there’s the father-name to which they’ll answer, Such as “Skillful” or “Wiseguy,” or “Noble,” or “Hair,” Such as “Champion,” “Third One (so suck it),” “Commander,” All of them sensible? everyday? fare. And some names can be fancy without weird opinions Some for the gentlemen, some for the dames Like “Desirable,” “Victory,” “Sparkling Brilliance” By Eru I swear these are everyday names. But I tell you, an Elf needs a name that’s significant, A mother-name given with wisdom and sight Though often too late to be on birth certificates It’s always a true name and often it’s right. And mother-names sometimes are even prophetic Such as “Flameo Hotman” or “Quick Attitude,” Such as “Tomboy,” “The Boss” or “Has Dad’s Genetics” — But ya pity a ginger kid raised as “Doomed.” But above and beyond there’s a name that’s like property, It’s private and personal, not for your use The name that might not even be in your glossary But THE ELF THEMSELF CHOSE, and may share or refuse. When you notice an Elf in profound meditation, The reason, says Aelfwine, is always the same: His mind is engaged in a rapt contemplation Of the thought, of the thought, of the thought of his name: His ineffable Elf label Essecilmenable Deep and inscrutable singular Name.
