Odin:*enslaves and conquers millions, kidnaps Loki and raises him to hate his own race and then goads him into suicide and when that doesn’t work imprisons him without trial after telling him his birthright was to die*
Mobius:*works for a violent authoritarian organization dedicated to murder, genocide, torture, slavery, mass surveillance, and police brutality, tells Loki that his fears of being a monster by nature which drove him to suicide initially are accurate and psychologically tortures him*
Loki:*Is an incredibly complex grey character whose initial motivation was that he wanted to prevent a war and who has been a victim of torture and mind control and attempted suicide due to being taught to hate his own race*
Disney:yeah anyway clearly the misunderstood grey character who is unfairly branded a pure and simple villain and who deserves a spinoff movie to explore their motivations and backstory in a serious, dramatic, and sympathetic manner is the lady who skins puppies.
Im gonna post something controversal but… maybe when it comes to some things, they should end instaed of having million sequels that are so far from the original you cant even call it a part of the frenchise. Sometimes you really should put a stop to it at its best. Like Loki. His story should have ended with IW. Star Wars to me has only 6 episodes. And what about all the Halloween and Scream movies? I mean that.
Agreed, there are some things that should be left alone or if you want them, hold off until you have better ideas of how to keep it closer to the canon you’ve already made. Even when trying to segue into something else to bring in new characters. Itnisnt that it wasn’t done artfully, it wasn’t done tastefully or smoothly. If trying to transition, do so moderately and listen to those who are part of it to make sure it is done properly, otherwise it is time to stop. Put on the full breaks and stop.
or
OR…
wild thought:
since LOKI’s story was cut devastatingly short without any satisfaction or proper closure or resolution for all his open wounds (neglectful family, abusive “friends”, broken brother relationship, origins, patricide, torture/abuse/mind violation, attempted genocide (of jotunnheim not new york pls), orphaned, attempted suicide, potential death wish & internalised self-loathing)…
MAYBE, they should have written a story that encompasses all of that in a respectful and plausible way, taking as long as it takes to explore and at least begin to help him resolve some of those major ones.
ps… there are THREE star wars movies (1977 to 1983) and an excellent prequel called Rogue One. *mic drop* don’t @ me i will enter into no correspondence regarding this lol
Before the show was out I would have disagreed. Man, was I hyped for Avenger‘s Loki coming back! Not the ragnarok caricature, but AVENGER‘s loki!!
So youre saying Loki uses magic to dry his clothes as soon as he is wet (cos he obviously cares about his looks) but he cant do the same for the rest of the series, not even when he is wounded or all dirty and has sweatmarks everywhere. Ok.
And that’s really the only time I can remember him using his magic too?
Like, you’re telling me that our Loki, the Loki from 2012 Avengers is a magic user and extremely proficient in it to the point where Classic Loki can make Asgard alone, but you never show him doing amazing feats with said magical abilities?
Okay.
MOOD
Nah for real. The moment they said “your magic does not work here” I was already throwing hands.
That wouldnt be such a problem. They did the same to Wanda. But unlike Loki, she was allowed to show her magic in the rest of the show and open all her powers at the end. While Loki…I dont even wanna go there. @l-astre
…I’m very much afraid that even stopping to care for his look is considered “a sign of growth”. And the same goes for not using his powers, with the exception of learning something from Sylvie (what humility!) or defending Sylvie (see? He loves her and has learned to use her powers for the greater good. !)
In the series Loki has gotten worse at everything, at every aspect. Hair oily as never before (like Tom hasnt washed it the entire time they were shooting), he stopped wearing decent clothes, he no longer walks like God, even his voice isnt as hoarse as it used to be, his intellect is gone, he is a trickster but he doesnt trick one person, etc. And Im not even gonna go into the fact he doesnt use magic even after 10 years in MCU and how he braggs he is 10 steaps ahead of them all and we find out there is no plan and no scheme and that he wasnt (unlike in other movies)
He has gotten worse at everything and its all supposed to be growth. Growth should be becoming better. In Avengers for example he switches outfits when he proudly walks in Stuttgart with scepter. He could have conjured himself a new one in series finale but with humble expression on his face not so proud like in The avengers. They could have done that and that would truly be growth.
Loki got the opposite in the series. It was regression.
This!
“stopping to care for his look is considered a sign of growth” — that’s literally a sign of depression or otherwise deteriorating mental health we were taught to watch out for in my psychiatry course.
It’s often misenterpreted as “psychs will pronounce you mad if you stop conforming to stereotypes/care about what other people think about you” but in fact this series is a good example of what this criterion actually means. Unwashed greasy hair, slumped posture; no attempts to replace dirty, torn clothes; rolling with whatever option was imposed upon them by external circumstances while the person used to have strong opinions about their appearance before — all that paints a picture of giving up on taking basic care of himself, not letting go of excessive vanity or whatever other bs they are trying to push onto the viewers.
Too bad the writers for the series utterly suck at all mental-health-related issues, because what they are unintentionally and so clumsily showing would’ve still have more potential for exploration than what they are trying to tell.
Sometimes it feels like the interviews and commentary belong to some parallel universe and talk about a completely different product from there that we never got to see. The Larry series variant, if you will.
This is what I felt and the fact that they call his depressed state “therapy” and “growth” after BREAKING him to that point is so disturbing to me. We are actively having a dystopian view of a “healthy state of mind” pushed on us, while the creators act like they created a paradise in interviews.
I don’t know WHAT universe the show fans and the creators live in, but the Loki WE watched, got WORSE did NOT experience growth and I’ll swear on my Bachelor’s in Science Psychology degree on that.
True. Im no psychologist but it happened to me. I was suicidal. And around that time I just put my hair in ponytail,washed it barely, me otherwise fashion lover who loves coming up with various outfits, stopped caring about what i wear, stopped shaving my legs, i showered only once a week,normally I try to walk like a damn model, show off my shoes and hips, but at that time I just…walked.
And after a long process and these dark times when I realizes I was not a piece of shit and that it wasnt that bad and I had no reason to kill myself, I returned to my old me, even better. I changed most of my wardrobe, tried new haircut, I was no longer spending all my free time laying on the couch and I went out and enjoyed every small thing. I went thru this so seeing Loki in the series was like seeing myself during my depression period and to have writers calling this growth and what Mobius did to Loki,which is what my abusive ex used to do to me, a therapy, makes me sick to my stomach and feel…helpless.
I feel like Im shouting off the top of my lungs “he is showing all signs of depression,I know,Ive been there” and 5 people here me and thousands just walk by and ignore it or think “bitch just desperate for attention’. Thats how it feels to be in mcu fandom, as a survivor, seeing what happened to me happening to my favourite character too and fans and writers calling it good. His abuse even got physical on numerous occasions and people still dont recognize it as abuse and laugh at it. Im gonna go into extreme now, but this is everytime someone commits a suicide. Signs were all there but people were ignoring them or refused to see them. Cos "its not that deep”, right?
Edited: btw when I learnt my value, I didnt point at my chest with tears in my eyes “I cant be trusted” or any of that negative shit. I literally smiled and put on my newly delivered jacket and went out. In the finale Loki looks like in worst part of depression.
All of this ^^
As an abuse and depression survivor myself, those scenes ended up massively triggering me. It doesn’t help that I relate to Loki too and even though Larry isn’t Loki, it’s still triggering as fuck to see shit like that. It’s like they’re literally telling us through him that we don’t matter and we deserve to either take it and act like a doormat, or be vilified for the rest of our lives.
Every word.
I have lived with depression my whole life. Sometimes it looks okay from the outside, but sometimes it looks exactly like how Loki looked at the end of the show. And that’s not growth. That’s worse than what we saw at the end of Thor 1. At least Loki was fighting then. He stopped fighting in the show. He just accepted being treated like garbage. And then he actually believed that Mobius and Sylvie were right about him. That’s rock bottom.
I knew from the second that the show didn’t acknowledge how traumatizing it was to see your whole life and how you died and then didn’t offer any true therapy that it was not going to be a fun time.
This too! He just freaking watched Thanos fracturing his neck and dying and…noone talks about it for the rest of the show, how he feels about the fact the person who tortured him and then sent him to Earth kills him at the end, nothing. In episode 2 he is already laughing and reading a magazine and dancing (the scene was deleted but they did shoot it). I never saw worse writing. @scoobycool9
First thing we see Sylvie doing in a series - murdering by burning people alive.
Last thing we see her doing - murder.
How is she a hero,no idea.
You made me think how it is about other characters:
(Written from memory, might include mistakes)
1. Loki (antihero)
-first appearance (Thor): encouraging Thor
-last appearance (Thor): spying on Selvig
-last appearance (IW): getting killed
-Last appearance (Loki): getting overwhelmed by the differences of the TVA
2. Thor (hero)
-first appearance (Thor): being nervous about the coronation
-Last appearance (Thor): thinking about Jane
-last appearance (EG): giving the throne to Valkyrie and joining the Guardians (not sure if that was really his last moment. I tried to banish EG from my memory)
3. Thanos (villain)
-first appearance (the avengers): being revealed as the man behind the invasion
- last appearance (EG): being dusted by iron man to prevent him killing millions (again).
So, well, You are kinda correct that her portrayal so far starts and ends on scenes that are much more violent than the ones of the heroes and resemble those of the villains more. ♀️ I don’t get what Waldron and Kate were thinking, building her arc.
Remember when Tom posted a video from practice for Loki series where he practiced jump, or what looked more like a flight thru the air and we naively thought it meant Loki was gonna have fight scenes like actual god? Oh naivity.
oh wait tho remember when tom posted a video from practice for the LOKI series, and we naively thought it meant LOKI was gonna be in the series like an actual title character?
yeh.
i fucking do.
We live a frustrated life as Loki stan istg. You know when you realized the show not only took away his powerful magic but also his knife-throwing skills? It’s when I simply sighed and resigned to the fact that, yes, this show is a deliberate sabotage to Loki’s character.
Right? He now cant even aim with the daggers everyone claims he uses because he is a master with? Clothing gone (but others have it), magic almost not seen (but others use it), intellect somehow gone, his movements gone, his walk, his rage, his pride and grace and elegance, his purpose…and we are supposed to believe he went thru character development? What they gave us was downgrade. (No wonder Loki isnt Loki no more in anything. This is Waldron’s old re-used script where he just renamed Larry to Loki) @l-astre
Whole Loki series I was waiting for Loki’s master plan to unreveal. To find out he is tricking everyone. Something interesting. But nothing came. There was no plan, no scheme, no scam, no tricks.
Show about a trickster included no tricks.
When he said in ep2 he wants to overthrone the time keepers - that was loki. Thats what series should have been about. Or in ep3when he says TVA is gonna let all people on Lamentis die. Real Loki would find a way out of Lamentis. Not get arrested by tva again like an idiot. Sylvie too. They are Loki variants, smart tricksters and they get arrested again like fools?
Waldron has no idea who Loki is. So doesnt Kate, a big so called fan.
I still think the saddest part about the Loki show is that this Loki- the Loki who hasn’t seen his mother since the moment before he tried to destroy Jotunheim-will continue thinking he killed her because Mobius needed leverage. Mobius never told him the truth. So no matter how ‘ok’ Loki looks on the outside, (he doesn’t, by the way) he’s carrying that around with him. The same man who called him an ice runt also lied to him and told him he killed his mother- taunted him about it, actually.
Feel like the final proof at how badly Loki failed as queer representation is that Disney haven’t even included it in their “pride collection” on D+ , and it’s not like they were spoilt for choice to begin with…Like how do you make the protagonist of your big superhero show coming out so wildly underwhelming that it’s not even gay enough for corporate pinkwashing
