#anti peggy carter

luna-rainbow:

ashasdramadrawer:

valkyrieandstrangeridingaragorn:

At the end of the day Peggy is a far more comfortable character for Marvel and Disney than Steve ever was.

They wrote him as a fierce socialist who has no problem with fighting the system, taking down Shield, defying the government and having a speech in his movies about civil rights and freedom, speaking of politicians having agendas and standing up to the UN.

But when it comes to Peggy… she IS the system. She took an active part in Operation Paperclip, she worked alongside Zola, she was head of Shield for decades and she never fought against the system at all, quite the opposite. Do we ever hear what she thinks of civil rights? Nope, not a damn word. For all we know she’s perfectly happy as long as she keeps power to herself (in the case of Captain Carter) or enough privilege to do whatever she wants.

It’s never about helping the little guy, it’s all about her and her wants.

If Steve had avoided the plane crash and had returned to base, the very moment anyone implied they should pardon a bunch of nazis and hire them to work with them he would have stopped that immediately - he would have never forgiven Peggy or Howard for getting Zola out of jail, especially after what he did to Bucky (and many other soldiers he must have experimented on as well).

You know that scene in TWS where Steve tells Fury not only they’re fighting Hydra but they’re taking down Shield too? Well, he would have done something similar here - if the options are hire nazis or destroy the SSR he would have done the latter.

And so they’re not content with just claiming she’s his one and only true love, they have to portray her as a “female Steve” to the point of giving her his catchphrase? They were so uncomfortable with who Steve was that in their desperation they replaced him with her, they sent him back to effectively get rid of him and brought her to the present fully expecting the audience to get behind her like we had done with him but that’s quite simply never gonna happen. She’s nothing like Steve and she will never be.

Steve is an uncomfortable character for Disney. So is Sam. Neither of them can or would endorse who and what Disney is, not if they write them correctly and not make them total strawmen. Which I’m terrified of.

Peggy is incredibly weird.

I mean that she’s weird in that the only thing holding her back is sexism, and she’s in a world where that is apparently the only true axis of oppression that exists. She’s set up in a way that means she could have been written to be honestly empathetic. But Disney also can’t acknowledge that there is such a thing as racism in their world- the closest they have come to it was TFatWS, and that was… weak at best. Peggy only showed that she was exceptional, that she was personally able to overcome, but not see where the world needed fixing.

That’s honestly the problem with a lot of superhero media. Superheroes are innately conservative. They want to preserve what is, not change things. Usually, the people wanting change are written as villains. It’s a really gross shortcut- show how the world has let someone down, and wanting to take the matters extreme enough to actually achieve change are seen as extreme, unless its up against a villain like what we had in Black Widow- someone who is operating outside of the norm and is safe to vent upon. Even that got pushback though.

But a white woman like Peggy- a beautiful princess who only needs to be acknowledged for her exceptionalism to become one of the men and not change anything of note- is not a danger the way Steve (disable, poor, subtexually queer) and Sam (black, poor) wouldn’t. She weaponizes her femininity to uphold the status quo, while both Steve and Sam want to bring it down.

She doesn’t stand for anything.

Yeah I think you hit the nail on the head. Steve, Bucky and Sam appeal to a very different demographic to Peggy. There is something inherently marginalised about all three of these men, and by nature, what they stand for. And there is something very…political about what Steve and Sam stand for. I think this is partly why I object to the reading that Civil War happened purely because Steve wanted to be selfish and protect Bucky. I think Civil War is the first movie to start diluting Steve’s moral stance and minimising the importance of what he’s fighting for. Steve’s motivation is personal, they tell you, handwaving away what the Accords mean to privacy and individual responsibility.

We knew CEVans’ contract was ending, but they gave him an ending that was in opposition to Steve’s entire belief system. They stripped the heroism away from Steve before they kicked him out of the MCU. They are performative about the way they sell Sam, and have made him conformist while not given him any opportunity to discuss his values.

And I think you’re right, neither Steve nor Sam represent the America they want. It’s telling that they voice more sympathy for Walker’s plight than they do for Sam. Sam is relegated to hurt on behalf of other people, but not be a person with his own hurts.

Walker - able-bodied, golden child, broken only by using the serum at the wrong time. Just like Peggy - able-bodied, privileged, held back only by her sex. And you’re right…for dudebros that’s kinda the fantasy, isn’t it? A woman whose “only” flaw is being a woman? Who is attractive, posh, smart, powerful, kickass…with no moral viscera to speak of. The perfect soulless doll for you to project your own belief system onto.

luna-rainbow:

A strong man who has known power all his life may lose respect for that power, but a weak man knows the value of strength.

There are a lot of character defining lines for Steve, but this little one liner gets buried by the “I can do this all day” and “the little guy from Brooklyn who didn’t know how to run away from a fight”.

It’s what sets Steve apart from most of the other superheroes: he didn’t have a PhD, he didn’t have millions/billions under his name, he wasn’t a god. He wasn’t even someone you could call young and healthy. Erskine tells him he was chosen - not because he didn’t have those luxuries - but because he knew what it meant to be deprived of things ordinary people take for granted.

And it is this fact that makes his catchphrase so much more meaningful. It isn’t easy for pre-serum Steve to do what he does, to stand up, to speak out, to then grit his teeth and bear the consequences of taking a stance; but nevertheless, he will do it because it was that important to give the weak and the disadvantaged a voice.

All of this is important in his arc. He never lost perspective on what strength and power means. By knowing what it feels to be on the receiving end, Steve remains always wary about what absolute strength would mean. “This isn’t freedom, it’s fear.” “Sounds like a cold world, Tony.” “It’s run by people with agendas, and agendas change.” This is why Steve has always fought for individual responsibility, and against giving power to big institutions who have, in his experience, always walked over the weakest in society.

And this is why, unless they give Carter the same backstory of poor health, racial discrimination, being orphaned and poverty, it’s an insult to suggest she is morally equivalent to Steve, because as it stands with her backstory in AC, she has known power her whole life and none of her actions in the MCU have suggested she knows the value of the strength she gains through her organisation. To have her say “I can do this all day” is a mockery to what that phrase means to that skinny little kid in a back alley who chose battles bigger than himself, because it was important to teach people who are born with that strength to fear the very people they dismiss as weak.

And this is why Steve is the people’s hero.

THIS!!!!!

feralgoblintea:

imposterogers:

steve rogers said “I can do this all day” bc as a 105 pound chronically ill man he would get into fights w men twice his size daily and get knocked down time after time after time. his whole mo was stand up for the little guy & for people who couldn’t stand up for themselves, despite the fact that he was the little guy. it is a phrase that was born in the back alleys of brooklyn, and belonged to a man that always stood up (as long as his body allowed him), and peggy carter should not have been given that line under and circumstance

these tags are fantastic @anniethelen and completely on point

What Marvel is doing with Captain Carter is really bad. They’re making some shithouse choices with her.

It’s clear the purpose is a female badass super hero on the same level as Cap, the problem is Peggy is not Steve Rogers no matter how much the writers of What If and MOM pretend.

What makes Cap great, both Steve and hopefully Sam depending on what Spellman does with him, is that they’re people of conviction, morality and courage. They have high ideals and live up to them. Steve’s Cap is the idealised version of Steve Rogers, but Steve is still the basis for those ideals and behaviours. He is “not a perfect soldier, but a good man” and someone that has spent his life disadvantaged, and pushed aside for everything but his gender. And remember, 1940’s America at the height of Eugenics and Masculine Manly Ideals and Steve was a scrawny, disabled, Irish Catholic lad that was poor, and probably written off as a ‘fairy’. So being male wasn’t much of a privilege in that context.

Mean while Peggy Carter is a spy. Not a soldier. And not a great person really, I’m sure others can and will elaborate but… I mean holy hell, losing your tempter and SHOOTING at someone in an enclosed space all because someone kissed them? Ain’t good.

And furthermore she does not share the same history of hardships and oppression Steve does. Aside from her gender, Peggy Carter is an incredibly privileged woman, and even then, feminism and equality was making some serious strides, even if it was set back after the war.

So taking Peggy, giving her the serum (after stepping over Steve’s bleeding body), and then slapping on all these elements form HIS story? Does not a compelling character or story make. You’re just slapping on red white and blue paint and calling it good and it loses ALL the depth and meaning it had in the original context.

And the line “I can do this all day” is a perfect example of this.

We first get that line from Steve when he’s the little guy, bleeding in a back alley, after getting up from a punch. After standing up to a guy being an asshole during pre-movie newsreels. And you get the feeling that he’s said this *a lot*. And he’s had to say it, each and every time he gets up after being knocked down, despite burning lungs, despite broken noses, bleeding lips, black eyes forming and whatever else he’s faced. “I’m not tired, I’m not broken, I can and will keep going, fuck you.” Because a disabled sickly little guy isn’t supposed to be able to keep going. It’s defiance. It’s will.

But what does it mean when Peggy says it? A healthy, athletic, woman, well off, well educated, now super enhanced. There’s no question she’s faced pushed back her entire life because woman with ambition wasn’t accepted really… But lacks the layers of Steve’s struggles. And more it lacks precise context. We’re never given a moment of her own when she’s had to 'go all day’. Where she’s had to get up again and again and again. We are not shown. It isn’t earned.

Which is why it feels half-assed, slapped on. It doesn’t have the meaning it does when it comes from Steve (that ridiculous moment in Endgame aside).

And that’s really the problem with Captain Carter. Narratively speaking, nothing’s earned with her and all the moments she has been given aren’t even hers. And thus they’re shallow, flimsy, and so is she.

It’s bad writing. As usual.

If she’d been given the time and good writing instead of being placed on a pedestal and covered in Steve’s schtick, this wouldn’t be a problem. If she had been given her own moments, her own lines instead of piggybacking of the male base model, the whole Captain Carter thing would not feel so forced and shallow. They could have riffed on her whole playing knight story as a kid, made references to her brother, shown us her doubts, her fears, her weaknesses and humanity. A great writer can do a lot with a few lines at the right moment. They had the Agent Carter series to build off.

But they didn’t. They just stole stuff from Steve and called it a day.

pleasantpandemonium:

luna-rainbow:

A strong man who has known power all his life may lose respect for that power, but a weak man knows the value of strength.

There are a lot of character defining lines for Steve, but this little one liner gets buried by the “I can do this all day” and “the little guy from Brooklyn who didn’t know how to run away from a fight”.

It’s what sets Steve apart from most of the other superheroes: he didn’t have a PhD, he didn’t have millions/billions under his name, he wasn’t a god. He wasn’t even someone you could call young and healthy. Erskine tells him he was chosen - not because he didn’t have those luxuries - but because he knew what it meant to be deprived of things ordinary people take for granted.

And it is this fact that makes his catchphrase so much more meaningful. It isn’t easy for pre-serum Steve to do what he does, to stand up, to speak out, to then grit his teeth and bear the consequences of taking a stance; but nevertheless, he will do it because it was that important to give the weak and the disadvantaged a voice.

All of this is important in his arc. He never lost perspective on what strength and power means. By knowing what it feels to be on the receiving end, Steve remains always wary about what absolute strength would mean. “This isn’t freedom, it’s fear.” “Sounds like a cold world, Tony.” “It’s run by people with agendas, and agendas change.” This is why Steve has always fought for individual responsibility, and against giving power to big institutions who have, in his experience, always walked over the weakest in society.

And this is why, unless they give Carter the same backstory of poor health, racial discrimination, being orphaned and poverty, it’s an insult to suggest she is morally equivalent to Steve, because as it stands with her backstory in AC, she has known power her whole life and none of her actions in the MCU have suggested she knows the value of the strength she gains through her organisation. To have her say “I can do this all day” is a mockery to what that phrase means to that skinny little kid in a back alley who chose battles bigger than himself, because it was important to teach people who are born with that strength to fear the very people they dismiss as weak.

And this is why Steve is the people’s hero.

Lack of strength doesn’t always have to be the physical kind. Peggy is strong and capable physically, but she was also a woman in the 1940’s. It wasn’t common for women to have careers of their own back then. And she was only “accepted” into the army because it was wartime. She was deemed unqualified and weak until she could prove herself, just like Steve was. Steve was a scrawny kid during war and Peggy was a career driven woman in the 50’s. Neither of those combinations gave you anything for free. She also knew Steve, she might have adopted the frase “I can do this all day” from him, as a way to have him with her. In my opinion, Peggy is an awesome superhero and I hope I get to see more of her in the future

I’m not saying that Peggy wouldn’t have faced misogyny, but she was more privileged than Steve (Peggy is white, English, wealthy, able, and is. while Steve was the son of Irish immigrants and grew up disabled during the eugenics movement)

And considering that Peggy, Howard, and colonel Phillips founded a government agency together, which she became the leader of, misogyny can’t have stopped her that much. There is also the fact that they hired at least 1 nazi scientist (Zola) into their organization while fully knowing that Zola had tortured 1 of their former coworkers and that said coworker had died when capturing Zola. And them hiring Zola enabled him to rebuild hydra and torture Bucky into the Winter Soldier. We also see that at least Howard knew about Bucky, so unless Peggy was completely incompetent, she would have known too.

Then we have the massive red abuse flags she showed with how she treated Steve. The most obvious example has to be when she shot at him because he was kissed (without consent, so SA) by another woman while they weren’t even together (obviously, it still wouldn’t have been ok if they were together).

You can like Peggy, but she has a lot of massive flaws and has done horrific things (the 2 above are just the most glaring examples) that keeps getting ignored in favor of portraying her as a ‘feminist badass’(the toxic white version of feminism to be more accurate)

I find it amusing how a lot of times the “anti” tags are just about actual canon traits of the character the anti tag is about, but people still have to tag as “anti” instead of just tagging the character normaly because a lot of their stans are such psychos they would throw a fit for reading the truth.