Ma’am are you trying to tell me that when you look at someone you see their chromosomes?
how are y’all literally misinterpreting everything I’m saying. your brain reads someone as male or female not based on their genitals or how fem/masc they look but based on things you can see. believe it or not, you can’t always tell someone is trans.
woman doesn’t equal feminine??im literally butch, and the girls that are attracted to be aren’t “less gay”
really? So if you fuck a fat guy with moobs/gynecomastia what percentage of gay would that be? Or a short guy with little body hair? I mean if it’s only secondary sex characteristics then there has to be levels to it, since there’s many of them and many people are a mix. Being attracted to drag queens is therefore less straight than being attracted to manly and hairy men, right?
(i’m not going to go into the history go trans men/gnc dysphoric women in the lesbian community because it might break your brain but stay woke)
shoulders aren’t one of the things that determine if you read someone as male or female lmao. You don’t magically have X-Ray vison when you look at a person, you don’t see their genitals. There are a combination of things that cause your brain to interpret someone are male or female, but chances are, you can’t see their chromosomes when you look at someone.
:
People like OP be arguing that women who have broad shoulders, atypical fat distribution, a rather angular (“”“male”“”) face wouldn’t be attractive to ssa women while thinking that a TIM with hips would inherently be more sapphic than an androgynous woman
time to reiterate my Thots on trans women and lesbianism because if one more person calls me a terf I’m gonna scream
First, let’s evaluate how attraction works. People are not attracted to gender. If someone I perceive as male asks me out, I will say no. If they say they identify as a woman, I will still say no. Identity has no bearing on sexuality whatsoever.
HOWEVER.
Nobody is attracted to just genitals either. Lesbians don’t date trans men, and if someone I was dating came out to me as a trans man, I would quickly but politely break up with them. So if it isn’t identity and it isn’t sex, then what determines physical attraction?
Secondary sex characteristics. Things like fat distribution, breasts or lack thereof, Adam’s apple or lack thereof. Pretty much things that aren’t inherently sexual but still let our brain know “this is a man/this is a woman.”
So, knowing this, is it possible for a lesbian to be attracted to/date a trans woman? Absolutely.
Trans women are women and can be lesbians. There, thays my opinion.
However, knowing the genital preference debate, there’s a lot more nuance to be had. While trans women are women, their experiences and medical needs will be greatly different from “biological” women. In a census, wouldn’t it be much more concise to make the distinction? (Ex. trans women are at risk for ____ makes a lot more sense than “women are at risk for____”)
Also, lesbians inherently do not like dick, as it is a male sex organ. Is it possible for a lesbian to be in a sexual relationship with a trans women despite the penis? Yeah, of course. But is a penis something lesbians will inherently desire and should accept? No.
It’s a nuanced issue so there no quick way to sum up my thoughts, but I hope this makes my opinion a bit clearer !
You said attraction and sexuality is based on secondary sex characteristics not primary ones (they’re called primary for a reason but whatever).
Therefore being attracted to someone like an intersex woman who has certain male sex characteristics (like a beard, flat chest, etc.) would be “less gay”, or straight entirely since some can pass as male. Or does that only work with transmen? You’re the one claiming it’s based on what you see, not me.
Lmao you can’t see chromosomes but you can certainly see a dick. If I go on a date with a “woman” and find out he’s a man then I’m going to immediately drop him because I’m a lesbian and not attracted to men and dick. Thats how sexuality works, you’re never going to pretend away that genitals are a fundamental part of sexuality. No lesbians are attracted to or “neutral” about dick, that’s called a bisexual.
And again, lesbians can and do date trans men and that debunks your entire argument. Women are women not matter how masculine they are or how many drugs they’re on.
I mean..we do kind of agree. If I go on a date with a trans woman and find out she’s trans, that relationship definitely isn’t going to continue. I also agree with you when you say that no lesbian is attracted to dick.
if I look at someone with a beard I’m probably going to register them as male. It’s the way my brain is wired to perceive gender. Flat chests add more nuanced, because they’re not an inherently fem or masc characteristic. A woman with a flat chest still looks like a woman. and since you brought up intersex people, what about the few whose genitalia isn’t strictly male or female? Chromosomally, they’d be of the male sex no matter what due to the Y chromosome being present, so would that make all intersex people male by your definition?
And lesbians don’t date trans men ! Trans men have dysphoria and may desire to physically transition, which includes hormones that greatly change fat distribution, hormone patterns, etc, and surgery, which definitely alters the way they’re perceived. So no, a lesbian dating a trans man wouldn’t exist because lesbians don’t date men (and on that subject…what if said trans man has had bottom surgery? What then? Is there a line where the theoretical lesbian is no longer a lesbian?)
You said that lesbians can have happy sexual relationships with TIMs so you clearly don’t think that lesbians aren’t attracted to dick. You can’t have a good sexual relationship with someone when you’re not sexually attracted to them lmao. Lesbians aren’t attracted to males and will never have healthy romantic/sexual relationships with them and to say otherwise is conversion therapy rhetoric.
Breasts are a secondary sex characteristic, like facial hair, hips, Adam’s apples, voices, etc. so yes a flat chest would be a male characteristic. The whole point was to illustrate that many (or even most) people don’t cover all of those, and some are more obvious or pronounced than others. Which is why secondary sex characteristics are a useless definition of sexuality unless you’re claiming that everyone is bi to some degree, since they can be attracted to many of those characteristics. An according to that definition, dating a woman with ambiguous secondary sex characteristics would be “less gay”. An on that topic, changes in reproductive system/genitalia is also part of the secondary sex characteristics so….
Intersex people are still either male or female, and either way that’s .018% of the human population that non-disordered TIMs/TIFs have nothing to do with.
It doesn’t matter what lengths a woman goes to to imitate a man, she’s female and therefore at least some lesbian women will be attracted to her. Hairy women are still female, women who had mastectomies/flat chests are still female, women with deep voices are female, women with high testosterone are female, etc. and lesbians still have the capability to be sexually attracted to them. Straight women don’t. Trans men have historically been a part of the lesbian community and some still call themselves lesbians (because they’re female and attracted to females, so, you know, lesbians), I don’t know where the denial is coming from.
I really wouldn’t bring up TIFs’ bottom surgery in your case because almost nobody is attracted to that straight or gay lmao. It’s an extreme body modification (mutilation you could say), not functional genitalia. You’d be hard pressed to find women of any orientation that see a picture of those surgeries and go “yeah that’s hot”.
A “theoretical lesbian” is no longer a lesbian when she’s attracted to males. Thats the line.
Ma’am are you trying to tell me that when you look at someone you see their chromosomes?
how are y’all literally misinterpreting everything I’m saying. your brain reads someone as male or female not based on their genitals or how fem/masc they look but based on things you can see. believe it or not, you can’t always tell someone is trans.
woman doesn’t equal feminine??im literally butch, and the girls that are attracted to be aren’t “less gay”
really? So if you fuck a fat guy with moobs/gynecomastia what percentage of gay would that be? Or a short guy with little body hair? I mean if it’s only secondary sex characteristics then there has to be levels to it, since there’s many of them and many people are a mix. Being attracted to drag queens is therefore less straight than being attracted to manly and hairy men, right?
(i’m not going to go into the history go trans men/gnc dysphoric women in the lesbian community because it might break your brain but stay woke)
shoulders aren’t one of the things that determine if you read someone as male or female lmao. You don’t magically have X-Ray vison when you look at a person, you don’t see their genitals. There are a combination of things that cause your brain to interpret someone are male or female, but chances are, you can’t see their chromosomes when you look at someone.
:
People like OP be arguing that women who have broad shoulders, atypical fat distribution, a rather angular (“”“male”“”) face wouldn’t be attractive to ssa women while thinking that a TIM with hips would inherently be more sapphic than an androgynous woman
time to reiterate my Thots on trans women and lesbianism because if one more person calls me a terf I’m gonna scream
First, let’s evaluate how attraction works. People are not attracted to gender. If someone I perceive as male asks me out, I will say no. If they say they identify as a woman, I will still say no. Identity has no bearing on sexuality whatsoever.
HOWEVER.
Nobody is attracted to just genitals either. Lesbians don’t date trans men, and if someone I was dating came out to me as a trans man, I would quickly but politely break up with them. So if it isn’t identity and it isn’t sex, then what determines physical attraction?
Secondary sex characteristics. Things like fat distribution, breasts or lack thereof, Adam’s apple or lack thereof. Pretty much things that aren’t inherently sexual but still let our brain know “this is a man/this is a woman.”
So, knowing this, is it possible for a lesbian to be attracted to/date a trans woman? Absolutely.
Trans women are women and can be lesbians. There, thays my opinion.
However, knowing the genital preference debate, there’s a lot more nuance to be had. While trans women are women, their experiences and medical needs will be greatly different from “biological” women. In a census, wouldn’t it be much more concise to make the distinction? (Ex. trans women are at risk for ____ makes a lot more sense than “women are at risk for____”)
Also, lesbians inherently do not like dick, as it is a male sex organ. Is it possible for a lesbian to be in a sexual relationship with a trans women despite the penis? Yeah, of course. But is a penis something lesbians will inherently desire and should accept? No.
It’s a nuanced issue so there no quick way to sum up my thoughts, but I hope this makes my opinion a bit clearer !
You said attraction and sexuality is based on secondary sex characteristics not primary ones (they’re called primary for a reason but whatever).
Therefore being attracted to someone like an intersex woman who has certain male sex characteristics (like a beard, flat chest, etc.) would be “less gay”, or straight entirely since some can pass as male. Or does that only work with transmen? You’re the one claiming it’s based on what you see, not me.
Lmao you can’t see chromosomes but you can certainly see a dick. If I go on a date with a “woman” and find out he’s a man then I’m going to immediately drop him because I’m a lesbian and not attracted to men and dick. Thats how sexuality works, you’re never going to pretend away that genitals are a fundamental part of sexuality. No lesbians are attracted to or “neutral” about dick, that’s called a bisexual.
And again, lesbians can and do date trans men and that debunks your entire argument. Women are women not matter how masculine they are or how many drugs they’re on.
Actual question: why do you call yourself a feminist if you cater to male demands?
“Given your support for self-identification and medical intervention to address body dysporia, would you support providing anorexic patients with liposuction in order to better reconcile their internal and external senses of self?”
