I love Nynaeve’s imposter syndrome. She kicks herself for a lack of bravery as she drags a Forsaken she’s taken captive into a battle zone to try to face down a second Forsaken.
I’ve known many women who are so capable but don’t see how talented they are, just the mistakes. It’s a very honest read on this really brave and remarkable woman that she wouldn’t recognize that in herself. It humanizes someone who could otherwise come across as very one-note because she’s always so angry.
Nynaeve is full of contradictions, as are all of the best characters in the series, and I love her for it.
mat throughout book 3: i want nothing to do with elayne! except she’s in trouble and needs me so i SUPPOSE i will be FORCED to help her.
mat throughout books 4-5: i want nothing to do with rand! except he’s in trouble and needs me so i SUPPOSE i will be FORCED to help him.
mat throughout books 6-7: i want nothing to do with elayne or rand! except rand wants me to go pick up elayne and now she’s running off into trouble so i SUPPOSE i will be FORCED to help both of them.
conclusion: mat should be rand AND elayne’s boyfriend AND warder
Having the rigidly Lawful Good character accidentally join a religious Fascist organisation was a genius move… and surprisingly ruthless criticism of law, order, notions of ‘goodness’, and Christianity from the devout Southern American Veteran.
Mat honestly had zero reasons to keep a darkfriend’s hat and start wearing it all the time even after the Persistent Summer problem was solved but it’s so incredibly in-character of him to incorporate it into his personality given his natural sense of attraction to darkfriends and evil objects. He did not have to keep it!!! He did anyway.
the first age being our own modern era, the third age’s myths and stories being our modern events garbled by word of mouth, and our legends and stories about the past being the third age’s events garbled into myths as the wheel turns around again (causing the parallels between wheel of time characters and our stories about odin, jesus, arthur, etc), never fails to mess with my head!!
its about the cyclical nature of storytelling, the way the series and our myths reflect and refract back on each other, the meta quality of how the author was directly looking at us in the face and saying “a story takes on a quality of truth when you tell it enough times”
This is also the implication of the Heroes of the Horn: those spun out again and again in endless variation to make new myths and stories. The Dragon is the savior of the world and parallels many historic saviors, the High King is all the great conquerors of the past from Alexander the Great to Charlemagne to Napoleon, Birgitte is a combination of famous archers from Artemis to Robin Hood to Skadi: the wheel favors these patterns, these legends and that’s why they crop up and reoccur so often in both our folklore and that of Randland.
WoT Meta: Lanfear, Mania, and the myth of Endymion
I’ve been giving a lot of thought lately to Lanfear and her symbolic relationship to the moon and lunar mythology in general. Jordan was really good at weaving in mythological references, both subtle and overt, and Lanfear isn’t really an exception. Were initially introduced to her under the alias ‘Selene’, which naturally brings up the idea of the Greek Moon goddess, and raises her most famous myth: that of Endymion.
The story goes that every night the moon goddess Selene, when crossing the heavens, would see a slumbering shepherd (Endymion) and be entranced by his beauty. Aware however that it was the fate of all mortals to die, she held her distance, and loved from afar until finally she could bear it no longer, and went to Zeus. When asked what she wanted however, Selene stated that she wanted to be able to gaze at Endymion forever, and so Zeus placed Endymion into an eternal slumber from which he would never wake, but nor would he would age. Selene satisfied, took Endymion as her own, and bore fifty children by him.
It’s not a reach to point out the parallels between this myth and Lanfear’s own love for Rand but the interesting thing about this is that, is how it touches on the Greek concepts of love, in particular the distinction between Eros (romantic love born from physical attraction that becomes spiritual attraction) and it’s is twisted twin, Mania (a love which prioritizes ownership of the subject, and control, over their well being). Now the Greeks had a LOT of concepts of love (Agape the unconditional love of humanity, Philia platonic love between friends, Storge love of family, etc) and they’re was a lot of nuance in the way they talked about Eros and Mania specifically, because the Greeks understood how thin the line between the two could be, as illustrated by this myth: when Selene chooses to treat Endymion as an object rather then a person, her love becomes one of Mania, rather then one of Eros.
This neatly parallels the situation with Lanfear, who despite her constant claims of how deeply she loves Rand/Lews Therin Telamon, cares much more about controlling and owning him, then she does about his happiness or well being. Like with Selene and Endymion she wants to be with him, but not because of who he is as a person. Her regard for him is all for factor outside of his control (i.e who he was in a past life) and so centers her will and her possession of him above all else.
This contrasts very sharply with Rand’s other relationships, where both he and his partners want what is best for the other, and a great deal of the conflict is born on them disagreeing on what is best. This is most obvious with Min, where Rand recognizes that being around him is dangerous and because he loves her and wants her out of danger tries to send her away, while Min who knows that the best thing for Rand is to have people who can care for and support him at his side, wants to remain. The same shows up in his relationships with Elayne and Avihenda, though a bit more subtly: that same core conflict of wanting the best for the person you love, even at cost to yourself, demonstrates that their love is inherently unselfish and prioritizes the good of the other over what is best for them personally.
It’s been a while since I re-read New Spring, but it’s fascinating to me the parallels between Rand and Moraine that only leap out at me now:
Both reject the idea of responsibility and power (Rand his destiny, Moraine the Sun Throne) and go to great lengths to avoid the Tower’s machinations upon them. Both desire freedom and adventure out in the world. Both are full of stubborn pride and have fierce tempers with a tendency to lash out (especially with The Power) when that pride is infringed upon or they feel disrespected. Both are haunted by unearned dark reputations (Rand’s from being the Dragon, Moraine from being a Damodred) but are ultimately are driven by altruism and virtue that often goes ignored or unseen by others.
It really shines a interesting light on a lot of their early interactions, and their mentor/student relationship up until Moraine’s death, in particular the way Rand’s behavior can get under Moraine’s skin in a way nothing else can: because she sees a reflection of her own youthful arrogance, and knows how badly that can go. And knows that, the world may not be able to afford the time for Rand to learn better.
All we can do is the best we can with the life that’s given to us. And take comfort from it that no matter what happens, what pain we face, what heartbreak, even death, the Wheel keeps turning, always. And we try again. Maybe do a little better than the last time.
Dana:
He doesn’t want to kill you. That’s what the Aes Sedai want. He wants you to save us. Can’t you see that? The Wheel keeps turning and people keep hurting. Every man who comes to this shite town has a story: flood, drought, war. Sisters murdering their brothers, children killing their parents. But the Dragon, the Dragon has a chance to change all that. Break the Wheel. Make it stop.
Ila:
What greater revenge against violence than peace? What greater revenge against death than life? I couldn’t protect my girl in this turn of the Wheel, but one day, long after I’m gone, after Aram and his grandchildren’s grandchildren, the Wheel will turn out my daughter’s soul again. I do what I can to forge a better world for her then, where she can enjoy the life she should have had with me.
The Seanchan are an objectively terrible culture. I don’t think anyone, including the people who like certain Seanchan characters, disagrees with that. (If you do, scram! You’re not welcome here.)
That said, a lot hinges on the time period in which Robert Jordan began writing. The Seanchan serve multiple narrative purposes and are tailored to fulfill them.
First, the Seanchan culture. All cultures in the Wheel of Time are meant to look both alien and familiar. History not only repeats, it remixes, and the Seanchan combine elements of multiple powerful cultures. Some of them are signals, like the Deep South accents. Some are mostly there to make them look more alien (to RJ’s anticipated audience). I understand that some people consider this combinatorial approach gross and appropriationist. All I can say is that at the time, we were seeing just the opposite: humans are just humans and no cultural element is intrinsic to anyone’s being; that was what it meant, back then, to be a good multicultural person.
Second, the first role the Seanchan play in the story is to be a *colonial power*. RJ is clearly suggesting: “Hey, European descendants, this is what it looks like when a ‘superior culture’ descends on your homeland.” We have already identified with the protagonists; now we get to see them (and by extension, ourselves) in the role of the colonized. This sort of cultural turnabout is now seen, at best, as overdone, and often as deeply misguided and insulting. Whatever you think of it, remember that at the time it was a smoking hot take. The Seanchan are only mildly technologically ahead of our protagonists, but there are certain extremely key developments that make them hard to beat: the a'dam, the tight organization, and the frikkin’ *Air Force*. RJ takes the classical European conception of a medieval/early Renaissance army, and then he puts it up against artillery and an air force. Barring almost literal divine intervention, the side we identify with gets smoked. This could be construed as a sort of war porn; I am convinced it is not. It is RJ saying “Imagine yourselves as the Powhatan people.”
But why, then, are the Seanchan so necessary to the fight against the Dark One? Why aren’t they simply malignant evil and maybe on his side? Well, again, history is remixed, not merely repeated. Third: the Seanchan are also playing the role of Soviet Russia. This is the early '90s. The USSR is the Evil Empire (Now in Collapse), but RJ knows his history. The USSR were our genuine allies, when the enemy was Nazi Germany. That did not make them “good guys”, per se. If the war had been only Germany vs. Russia, the victor would scarcely have mattered; the result would be a monstrous dictatorship ruling all Europe. And yet if Russia had not been in it at all, the remaining Allies would have been far harder pressed. I don’t know enough history to say “The Axis might have won.” But literarily: the Axis might have won. That was the nightmare AU scenario that ruled alternate-history sci-fi. I know a lot of you younger folks are socialists and some of you are tankies. Set that aside for a moment and understand: to much of three generations, Soviet Communism was every bit as monstrous as the Seanchan. And *we had to rely on them anyway*, or lose to an enemy even worse. That’s the situation RJ has set up for his protagonists.
So why have Mat fall for the Empress? Well, for the narrative of triumph. Today we look back on a lot of mistakes and wonder (or are sure we know) where it all went wrong. But RJ started just in time for the USSR to collapse. We thought it was the end of history and liberal democracy was victorious over all. It was time to put aside old hatreds and rivalries, and by doing so we would win the remaining, crumbling antagonists over to our side. During the war, you punch Nazis (and Commies, too, when it’s their turn), but when the war is over and their defeat is plain, you bury the hatchet precisely so history doesn’t repeat. That was how most of us thought at the time. If only it had worked out that way.
The connection between Seanchan and WWII Soviet Union in relation to the US is interesting! I also think your point about the US cultural notes (and even world location) is important. I’m not sure whether this is fully what RJ intended, but what he created by placing the Seanchan on the destroyed American continents, and by using a US accent and imperialist/colonialist culture, is a reflection of the US’ actual role in our world. The US is a juggernaut of military power that far outspends literally every other nation in the world to have the largest and most advanced military. It then uses this military might to intervene in and invade other countries (modern imperialism/colonialism).
As a military man who saw that in action in Vietnam, RJ would have been exposed to both the horrors of war and the propaganda that it was a necessary evil to “liberate” other countries. It’s fascinating to see that propaganda play out in the series as fact - it’s unclear whether RJ intentionally aligned himself with this war propaganda, or if he was subconsciously influenced by it. But the time in which his active military service took place was interesting in that both pro-US-involvement propaganda and anti-war sentiments were extremely loud. He would have been indoctrinated into the former, but from what he’s discussed of his traumatic experiences in the military, he definitely reflected on the latter afterward.
All this to say that I think the parallels between Seanchan and the United States are strong and fascinating.
WoT Meta: Lanfear, Mania, and the myth of Endymion
I’ve been giving a lot of thought lately to Lanfear and her symbolic relationship to the moon and lunar mythology in general. Jordan was really good at weaving in mythological references, both subtle and overt, and Lanfear isn’t really an exception. Were initially introduced to her under the alias ‘Selene’, which naturally brings up the idea of the Greek Moon goddess, and raises her most famous myth: that of Endymion.
The story goes that every night the moon goddess Selene, when crossing the heavens, would see a slumbering shepherd (Endymion) and be entranced by his beauty. Aware however that it was the fate of all mortals to die, she held her distance, and loved from afar until finally she could bear it no longer, and went to Zeus. When asked what she wanted however, Selene stated that she wanted to be able to gaze at Endymion forever, and so Zeus placed Endymion into an eternal slumber from which he would never wake, but nor would he would age. Selene satisfied, took Endymion as her own, and bore fifty children by him.
It’s not a reach to point out the parallels between this myth and Lanfear’s own love for Rand but the interesting thing about this is that, is how it touches on the Greek concepts of love, in particular the distinction between Eros (romantic love born from physical attraction that becomes spiritual attraction) and it’s is twisted twin, Mania (a love which prioritizes ownership of the subject, and control, over their well being). Now the Greeks had a LOT of concepts of love (Agape the unconditional love of humanity, Philia platonic love between friends, Storge love of family, etc) and they’re was a lot of nuance in the way they talked about Eros and Mania specifically, because the Greeks understood how thin the line between the two could be, as illustrated by this myth: when Selene chooses to treat Endymion as an object rather then a person, her love becomes one of Mania, rather then one of Eros.
This neatly parallels the situation with Lanfear, who despite her constant claims of how deeply she loves Rand/Lews Therin Telamon, cares much more about controlling and owning him, then she does about his happiness or well being. Like with Selene and Endymion she wants to be with him, but not because of who he is as a person. Her regard for him is all for factor outside of his control (i.e who he was in a past life) and so centers her will and her possession of him above all else.
This contrasts very sharply with Rand’s other relationships, where both he and his partners want what is best for the other, and a great deal of the conflict is born on them disagreeing on what is best. This is most obvious with Min, where Rand recognizes that being around him is dangerous and because he loves her and wants her out of danger tries to send her away, while Min who knows that the best thing for Rand is to have people who can care for and support him at his side, wants to remain. The same shows up in his relationships with Elayne and Avihenda, though a bit more subtly: that same core conflict of wanting the best for the person you love, even at cost to yourself, demonstrates that their love is inherently unselfish and prioritizes the good of the other over what is best for them personally.
Rand’s breakdown/depressive episode in ACoS always felt weird to me because Rand says he locked himself in his rooms for days because of something that objectively, unambiguously didn’t happen. It just doesn’t make sense. What makes sense though is that Rand is a way more unreliable narrator than usual, specifically because he is convinced that he can’t trust himself.
So it went like this: Rand has been rescued from the Tower Aes Sedai just a couple of days ago (and a lot of other unpleasant things happened during this time) and he is not in the best place mentally right now. Cadsuane shows up and makes him confront the idea that he already might be going insane. Then he sleeps with Min and avoids her for normal Rand reasons. After that, during a staged fight with Perrin he actually gets so mad he nearly kills him (which is also somewhat debatable). And then he locks himself in his rooms.
Three main things would be on his mind right now: that he might be going insane, that he is not in control of himself enough to not hurt people close to him, and Min. And he is ruminating in these thoughts for days, without getting any actual sleep. So it is no wonder that in a couple of days, with enough doubt, self-loathing and sleep deprivation, he convinced himself that he assaulted Min. He doesn’t remember it that way but it doesn’t matter to him.
Was it how RJ intended this to be read? Who the hell knows, probably no. Do I refuse to read it any other way? Yes, absolutely
the first age being our own modern era, the third age’s myths and stories being our modern events garbled by word of mouth, and our legends and stories about the past being the third age’s events garbled into myths as the wheel turns around again (causing the parallels between wheel of time characters and our stories about odin, jesus, arthur, etc), never fails to mess with my head!!
its about the cyclical nature of storytelling, the way the series and our myths reflect and refract back on each other, the meta quality of how the author was directly looking at us in the face and saying “a story takes on a quality of truth when you tell it enough times”
