I still don’t know what’s happened to Gavin and no one is answering my messages which is making me more and more anxious, so I’m finding solace in Kiro awesomeness before the hard truth hits me.
Updated
I’m almost certain at this point that 2022 is Kiro’s year. Fantastic karma, great dates and character development for our sunshine boy… ☀️Altough the main story is still lacking a lot but it applies to the main story in general.
I really wanted to take an opportunity to respond to this for a moment, as someone who is both in love with Mystic Messenger, and Mr. Love.
I used to run a mystic messenger blog, @yoosungiib, and truth is, I’d probably would have jumped on the bandwagon this it is complete theft if I was still on it, and only playing Mystic Messenger, amongst the many other Otome Games. Because other than some superficial similarities I don’t think the two games are anything alike.
When I first started playing Love and Producer, I never thought it was similar to Mystic Messenger, even as I continued on with the story. Especially with the texting; I never directly compared it to MM because I felt it’s really not fair to say they are “committing theft” on their text aspect, for one, because Mr Love is not the first game to use that aspect after Mystic Messenger. Or even before hand. Example, though not the same, Voltage would send you emails from the characters. There is no denying the similarities between Helios/Saeran and even Jumin/Victor — which I pointed out on my instagram (not very in dept).
But besides this, I’m really not convinced that they are similar, or copying. As a lot of people point out, for one, referencing is not wrong. And Cheritz does it too. If you read any of their notes, they point out about their character developments being based off of well known ‘types’ of otome games characters. Example; billionaire CEO, idol, college student. It’s not something that is just a Mystic Messenger trope.
There is also a lot of nit picking between the two. I think Helios and Saeran are very similar in look, and even with being a hacker. BUT, I think to say Kiro is copying Saeyoung because he wears headphones, or Ms.Chips/Honey Buddha Chips, is just nit picking at this point.
The stories are completely different. There is a reason the four guys are circling the MC, because they all have a connection to her, which is revealed more and more in the story. These games recycle ideas and tropes that are also prevalent in Shojo Manga, which in my view is more for similarity than any suspected pirating.
I think Cheritz would have done something by now if they were that concerned, because the game has been out for awhile now. – put plagiarism is already difficult to prove; you have to prove intent, not just that they look similar.
Both games bring a lot of joy to people, and I feel that in the end, that is what is most important. <3
I just wanted to put my two cents out there and a different perspective. Again, I respect everyone’s opinions, and I understand that Love and Producer isn’t for everyone, so I hope I am not misunderstood at all. :)
^ I agree.
There are a lot of similarities between both games… but I honestly believe that the plot and characters’ personalities are different enough to not be considered plagiarism.
I think they’re just heavily referencing Mysme when it comes to the illustrations. Story-wise tho? Not really. Kiro and Saeyoung have different personalities. For real. The same goes for Victor and Jumin (Jumin is softer and doesn’t have such a, uh, prickly personality like Victor does? Besides, Jumin is a bit of a yandere and Victor isn’t lmao). Their only similarities are:
business men;
dark-haired;
serious type.
Hmmmm, it’s like @ikesengoficss said, Mysme was such a phenomenon back in 2016 that most mobile otoge now use it as reference.
But yeah, MLQC’s developers could’ve been more subtle when referencing Mysme (especially regarding that silver-haired dude’s is that kiro? design) xD
Oh definitely. If a plagiarism argument were to be made, the similarities between the character of Helios and Saeran would be the best bet– white hair, tattoo’s, hacker.
But here’s the thing about plagiarism; it’s not just “stealing,” or “copying.” As described in the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, it can be to commit theft in literacy, and to steal someones work and pass off as their own, to use something without crediting the source, and as Plagiarism.Orgsays, “plagiarism is an act of fraud. It involves both stealing someone else’s work and lying about it afterward.”
And the key word is, “lying about it afterward.”
Let’s say Cybird were to put a case against Love and Producer for plagiarizing Saeran I’m disregarding Saeyoung as part of the equation here, because I think there is a real less likely case for Kiro to be a copy of him Cybird would have to prove that there was intent behind having Helios look or act like Saeran. That isn’t easy to do, and unless there was some wild conspiracy behind the scenes we don’t know about, there is no obvious intent of stealing.
Not that I particularly want to use Wikipedia as a source of any kind, but this is a wonderful example of art referencing!
Van Gogh did not steal these work, as his museum website will tell you, Van Gogh loved Japanese art. In a letter to his brother Theo, he wrote, “But whatever one may say, for me the more ordinary Japanese prints, coloured in flat tones, are admirable for the same reason as RubensandVeronese.”
I highly encourage reading this letter, it’s really beautiful.
And if we compare this comparison between Van Gogh and Hiroshige with the comparison between Saeran and Helios, Van Gogh made eminent changes, like the orange background, intensifying the colours, and changing the colour of the tree bark, which the Van Gogh Museum points out.
This photograph is very easy to point out similarities, but let’s point out some differences:
The Tattoo: Same placement of the arm, but different. Saeran has the mint eye symbol, where Helios has a sort of flame– I’ll be honest and say I’m not sure (yet) what it symbolizes, or what it is.
Hair: They have similar hair, but Helios is more of a silver, where Saeran’s is white and tinted pink. Helios is also longer in the back.
Outfit: Saeran wears red and leather jacker, where as Helios wears all black.
A couple years ago I had something of mine which was plagiarized, so I guess that is why I get so passionate about the discussion on what is plagiarizing and what is reference. Maybe me adding on is unnecessary at this point, but I always feel I have more to say and I never express it. I also think this is important, and I was really, really careful with referencing my works here!
But, “Plagiarizing” is one of those words you have to be careful throwing around when there isn’t clear intent behind it.
And as many have pointed out, Mystic Messenger revolutionized the Otome industry because it brought something new to the playing field. But, that was three-ish years ago. We’re at a point now where we grow, and branch off of that revolution.
Anyway, that’s me done. ;P
I simply adore the Van Gogh and Hiroshige part since that is a good sample of “art referencing” and it’s always good to discuss with evidence (which makes your points more convincing)
It ended up to be way longer than what I’ve expect
Didn’t planned to spend so much time on this but I guess I’m too mad on L&P / Paper’s actions so here I am hahaha. :DDD
There is a reason behind me raising this L&P “over-referencing” issue…..
The problem we are talking right here is always about how China “steals” stuffs from other’s, by making minor and “not worth mentioning” changes on the original works, thus showing no respect to copyrights then happily earn money with their “own, original” product.
L&P’s game plot and system seems COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from MM.
Yeah that part might be true, but I really hope that everyone can think about the reason behind this.
Cheritz’s games are more like indie games, they have their game made to not only entertain players but also bring out meaningful messages.
(E.g. In MM, they discuss mental sickness, child abuse, love and let go etc…)
And for Paper (company of L&P), they REALLY wish to make games that help them to earn more and more and more money. (Without deep talking on how Paper’s games “cheat” on the system and “grab” money from players in their Nikki’s series, then silence those players that paid and made statistics to prove that the system is cheating. lololol.)
Why I’m so mad with L&P’s “art - referencing” MM’s is because
THEY GAIN TONS OF MONEY BY DOING SO.
Players (esp. those in China) are willing to spend A LOT on card-lottering, because they’d love to collect the cards of their beloved characters, or go for the further levels in order to read more plots.
And in that case, why can’t they hire talented artist to draw UNIQUE cards, characters, hire famous author to write plots that doesn’t share the same plots with other novel?
Why do they have to *reference* on a similar yet different game / printed ficiton?
Because they are learning from MM, a game that they adore, like how Van Gogh adores Japanese art style/culture?
Do they really need to “create” their own characters that share so much ”similarities” with MM?
Or are they paying tribute, like how Rebecca Sugar did in the SU series, “art referencing” Akira / Revolutionary Girl Utena / EVA / Miyazaki Hayao ?
I’d love to share a video on art referencing vs copying,
I’d search for different types of resources as art ref as well.
But there is no way for me to *copy the composition*andsell that single piece away with my other “original work” in a package/ bundle.
If that’s the case, what’s the meaning of studying art?
Especially for those who’ve spent years and years on it.
And people should always be aware of the commercial boundaries and copyrights as well.
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Some of you may ask,
Why isn’t Paper getting sue if they are copying other’s work?
According to the definition of “academic copying” no.4 in China,
1. Directly quoting 200 hundreds words from other’s work without stating ref
2. Using other’s graph, data without referencing
3. Copying the original text or the content of other person’s work by modifying individual words, phrases, and reordering sentences exceeds 15% of the total number of words written
4. Translate the document directly or modify individual words, phrases, and reordering sentences exceeds 15% of the total number of words written
5. Use the experiments results, analysis, conclusion from other’s academic work without referencing
So by this rule, the plot they “stole and edit” from different novels don’t really “meet the requirement” of breaking the law.
For example, in the text that I posted my original post, the author of 《半相親》 wrote about how the main characters went to order chicken soup noodles in a clean and comfy shop owned by a woman, the MC in that novel recognized the woman, the woman grin, the male character brought MC noddles with ease, and handed the chopsticks to her….etc
In Ch.7, Gavin went to have soup ramen with Queen in a shop owned by a man. Queen also described the noodle shop as clean and comfy. Queen thinks that she is familiar with the shop owner. Gavin brought Queen noodles with ease and handed over the chopsticks to her….etc
Is Paper breaking the law by copying the plot flow + exact same vocabulary from another novel?
No, cause it is only a small portion of words, and they also did edit / delete the original text, then put it into L&P.
Are they smart?
Sure.
Is it right to do so?
I guess I will leave that to you.
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Why isn’t Cheritz standing for their own rights?
Some players did actually told cheritz, and their response was: (source)
(The weibo blogger put the response into google translate , but the words are a bit blurry so I’ll do a simple translation base on the chinese reblog)
We always supports derivative work, everyone’s re-creations means a lot to our development.
We’ve acknowledged the issue on suspicious plagiarism, but some overseas company will never be able to copy the soul of our game. Thank you so much for all of your supports, we will continue to provide better services and more unique updates.
And the original blogger also state that (words in brackets)
It is extremely difficult to sue overseas, the fees are usually……..
I understand Cheritz’s decision. They use part of their income to do donations, I wish players (who can afford) take actions to support a good company like them, so that they can bring us more wonderful stories.
I guess I will use this as conclusion.
Please have a deep think on it. Please only support those that are worthy.
Since,
For some countries, copycat issue has always been there for decades.
