#lingodeer

Happy Saturday, everyone! I was invited to beta test the new (more) advanced LingoDeer Korean levels. Of course I jumped at the opportunity! LingoDeer has in the past been my top recommendation for language learning apps*, and I have to admit that I was excited when news of the new levels dropped. Past experience has given me high expectations for the new levels.

I did the first four levels—titled “Impolite Form 1,” “Impolite Form 2,” “Will,” and “Suggestion” before taking the next two tests to jump to higher levels. I took notes on my experience based on a variety of things. As this is a beta test, I of course took notes of any bugs that I found (and reported them through the app as I encountered them). Still, even the smoothest language app is useless if its information is no good, so I also made notes about the presentation and utility of the material. I’ll take you through each level and the two tests so you can “experience” them in the proper order.

*Past LingoDeer reviews: Korean,Japanese,Japanese (exit),Mandarin Chinese,Mandarin Chinese (revisited)

Impolite Form 1

Notes:

Each level in Lingodeer has a “Notes” section that precedes the actual gamified learning panels. The notes explain the grammar and relevant cultural things related to the material that will be taught in the upcoming lesson. In this section, I found that the notes were quite thorough and, blessedly, they explained that despite labeling 해체 as the “impolite” form, they do not mean to say it is actually impolite. If you are aware of how low-key angsty it makes me when someone says X form =polite and Y form=impolite, you will understand why I’m so happy about this (hint: politeness is relative to the situation!). Also, they included some small pronunciation notes on the loss of 애/에 distinction in Seoul dialect, which I found to be a nice touch.

One fault I did find in the notes—one that I have found in past reviews—is that they are peppered with little grammatical errors. Not enough to obscure the meaning of what they are trying to say, but enough that I wonder why a few simple edits were not made to clean it up a bit.

In-course:

The good and bad things that I found in the “Impolite Form 1” learning levels all apply to every other learning level.

In the learning levels, the audio files were on point, though I did not expect anything less since LingoDeer has had (imo) the cleanest audio files of any language app since it first dropped last year. There is even an option to record your own voice when you listen to new audio examples so you can play back and compare your speaking with the example. I’m still waiting for the day that they implement pronunciation-check questions like HelloChinese did, though!

Another thing I liked in the in-course sections is that, when doing sentence building with syllable tiles (if you do not choose to just manually input all of the Hangul yourself), they now have blank tiles representing spaces. This is a huge improvement to just clicking on a bunch of syllables and getting a long string of smashed-together words. Still, spacing in examples and answer displays still could be improved. Particles are still spaced away from the elements that they attach to, and the difference in spacing between attaching element+particle vs. individual elements that would typically be spaced is not large enough to be easily noticeable. I would recommend either spacing regularly spaced elements even farther apart, or better yet, spacing things normally and just coloring particles and other attaching things like the copula 이다 to show that, while they are attached to something else, they are still distinct things.

Another thing I would like to see is more variety in the sentences that you are asked to work with. Seeing an example sentence and then immediately being asked to plug in a missing part of the exact same sentence makes it feel like you see the same sentence too many times, and you could ultimately just memorize the answer instead of having to actually apply knowledge to respond properly. I think that throwing in more sentences using previously learned vocabulary would be nice. I will note that the feeling of seeing the same sentence over and over lessened as I moved through the sections, as it seemed more “unexpected” sentences were getting mixed in gradually. Still, doing that from the very beginning would be great.

Impolite Form 2

Notes:

The biggest bone I had to pick in this notes section is that it claimed that 해체 is always formed by dropping 요 from the “polite” form or 해요체, when that does not in fact always work (ex: honorific -(으)시-). This is clarified in a notes section in a later tile… but still, even though they cleared it up later, I think they should not have made such a blanket statement in the first place, especially since they had already introduced 해요체 sentences with the honorific infix. Someone who has learned those forms but is not yet familiar with -세요 becoming -셔 in해체 could very easily get into a habit of writing sentences like (X) 바쁘세 instead of (O) 바쁘셔.

In-course:

“Impolite Forms 2” is where I made the most bug reports. The previous learning section was very usable, but this one was a bit of a mess still. There were a lot of missing images, and audio would not play. This was especially a problem if you wanted to hear the new example sentences read out, and on listening questions (just had to guess the answers for those!). I trust the team will fix those bugs soon.

Concerning the actual material itself, I was more or less content except with the huge amount of particle-dropping that they jumped into. While dropping particles in Korean is very natural in speech (and especially in 해체), it feels like they went straight from using all of the particles to using literally none in some sentences. There was no mention of this natural particle-dropping in the notes, and I think that it is something that learners should be made properly aware of.

“Will” and “Suggestion”

Notes:

I liked that the information in the notes for these sections was explained in a clear and easy-to-understand way, same as for the other sections.

In-course:

The issues with audio and image loading were gone, and the smooth user experience returned! I just had a minor bone to pick, that being how they translated “심심하다” to “boring” when “bored” would be more accurate. Solid levels overall!

Tests 1 and 2

I wanted to check out some test levels because they could give me an overview of material in the levels yet to come. I was pleasantly surprised: In those first two tests, which cover 16 sections, there was a lot of useful stuff including -기 위하다, the difference between 데려오다/가다 and 가져오다/가다, obligation with -아/어야 되다/하다, reasons with -기 때문이다,honorific particles and verbs,noun modifier endings, and more. All of it is really solid material, and that plus a skim over the titles for lessons further down (up?) the tree have me convinced that there is a lot of solid intermediate information in this new release.

Verdict:

The LingoDeer Korean 2 beta is full of solid information! Only in one level did I run into any serious bugginess, and the rest of my experience was smooth, with some nice changes and additions from what I expected based on my past experience with LingoDeer. Other than bugs, the things that bugged (har har) me the most were issues with how they space particles and such in example and answer display sentences, and the lack of explanation for some things I felt really needed explanation. Overall, LingoDeer remains at the top of my recommended language apps list, and I look forward to giving the Japanese and Chinese betas test runs as well (when I have the time!).

Happy studying~

Hello, everyone! Sorry I’ve been away for so long! I could bore you all with the many reasons my hiatus went on for so long, but I don’t think you’d appreciate it much (and it would be boring for me to write out as well). The important thing to know is that I’m back! Here’s a little rundown of some things I have upcoming for you all:

Coming soon

LingoDeer Korean beta test: I was invited to beta the new, more advanced levels. I’ll get into it and get started on a review as soon as the update drops (should be soon!). For those of you who don’t know, LingoDeer is a language-learning app that started with courses in Korean, Japanese, and Mandarin Chinese and is now branching out into other languages. My initial experience with the Korean course , my experiences startingandcompleting the Japanese course, and my brief dabble into the Chinese course at the request of the developing team were largely positive, and I’m very glad that the team is asking for my input again!

30-Day Speaking Challenge posts: I have decided to participate in the Huggins International 30-Day Speaking Challenge!  This is a challenge in which you try, for every day of a month, to speak on a certain topic in the language you are trying to learn. I am focusing on Mandarin because, while my reading and writing are decent-ish, my speaking is not that great. I’m working on it, though—I found a Chinese language meetup in my area, and the others there are absolute GOALS FOR DAYS—and I thought that pushing myself to do this challenge would really help me! I will post MP3 files of my recording for the day, as well as a transcript, here on my site. I might not hit every single day, but I want to try to get at least 15/30 complete.

What about the Korean posts??

I am mostly focusing on Mandarin these days. That said! Korean is a huge part of my daily life, and I will keep on studying that as well. Once I get back into the groove, I will try to put out more grammar posts and article translations. Korean is my number 1 language love <3

Thank you all for being so patient. As always, happy studying!

I’m really excited to bring you guys another app review today!

Lingodeer is a brand new app that is designed by actual language teachers/native speakers for specifically learning the three main East Asian languages: Korean, Japanese, and Chinese. And it’s totally free! If you haven’t heard of them before, you can check them out here: https://www.lingodeer.com/

I’ve actually been wanting to review this app for a while, but the iOS version wasn’t available until just the other day (and I only own Apple devices!).

Disclaimer: At the time of writing this review, the (iOS version) app is currently build 1.0, so any of the following may or may not change going forward as updates are applied.

Unlike for my review of the Duolingo Korean course, I did not complete the entire available skill tree that Lingodeer’s app offers. I found going through the lessons that there wasn’t any need to complete the tree in the vain hopes that the course might magically get better. Lingodeer is very good right out of the gate.

Your first stop on the app is the “alphabet” section, as it should be. Like Duolingo, Lingodeer unfortunately uses a form of romanization to teach the letters (see my Duolingo review for an explanation about why that’s bad) but that’s where the similarities stop. Lingodeer presents the Hangul letters in an order that actually makes sense, and in a way where learners can understand they are actually using letters to build sounds and eventually, words. Also, stroke order! That was a delightful and welcome surprise, which will come in handy for users actually wanting to learn to write the letters properly.

Heading into the first set of lessons (the “Nationality” section of the above screenshot) the user is greeted with a list of the lessons contained in the section, and to the left side, a menu labeled “Learning Tips”. When I selected the first lesson, I was initially disappointed to see that the romanization followed me but I quickly found that there is a setting the user can toggle to switch between Hangul and romanization, Hangul only, and romanization only.

Jumping right into the lesson, the user begins learning words and grammar that are pertinent for beginners to know, which is again, something Duolingo fails at. Additionally, all the audio is voiced by a native Korean speaker, and the quality is very clear and easy to understand.

The exercises in the lessons are fairly standard for apps of this nature (match a picture to a word/sound, unscramble sentences, listen to a bit of audio and enter the answer, choose the word/grammar bit that doesn’t belong, etc) and are on the whole unremarkable. However there was a conspicuous lack of explanations about why the grammar works the way it does, why the lesson kept trying to drill -은/는 into my brain with no indication about why it was important… Until I accidentally brushed part of the screen with one of my fingers on my way to the “next” button and a small window popped up to explain the word and grammar I had unintentionally poked at! There is no indication on any of the exercises or lesson screens that the user can press the words or grammar points for tips, instead of just blindly clicking through the lesson and guessing.

Upon completing the first two lessons, I decided to check out the “Learning Tips” menu from the lesson selection screen, and found the in depth answers for all my previous questions and more were contained there. I feel like the app and users would benefit from somehow marking very clearly that this is the location to find all that information, instead of hiding it behind an ambiguous “tips” label, especially when the tips in the lessons themselves exist (invisible though they are). In my opinion this section should be required reading, especially as this app is directed towards total beginners, however even something like “grammar explanations” would be a big step up from “tips”. Putting an indicator somewhere on the lesson screen to draw attention to the fact tips are available there too would be a good idea as well.

The app also contains a review section, where the user can practice and review both vocabulary and grammar that they have covered in completed lessons, which negates the need for a separate SRS app at the very beginning stages of learning (though I do recommend it at higher levels).

And a bonus that does not pertain to the Korean section of the app itself: I encountered a bug while using the app and sent off a support email. I received a very prompt and polite response regarding it, and assurances they were working on fixing the issue. :) Lovely people over there at Lingodeer.

That all said, there are a couple things I don’t like about the app and it’s claims. First and foremost, there is no option to test out of skills or individual lessons. The app is designed for absolute beginners with no prior knowledge, yes, but being unable to test out of parts of the skill tree is discouraging for not-exactly-absolute-beginner users. Instead of having to spend the time to complete a whole bunch of lessons to get to one or two they might need, not-quite-newbies are better off just looking up the information online for a quicker answer.

Second, the listing on the app store claims that by using the app you will be at the “intermediate” level of knowledge, and the official website claims that if you complete all the lessons you will speak your target language. I find both of these claims laughable–the contents of the lessons will get the user to a mid-high beginner at best (late A2 on the CEFR scale) and the app doesn’t have any speaking exercises at all. Speaking recall can be very difficult if the learner is not actively practicing it. Remember: No one app, book series, website, or lesson set will be enough to get you anywhere near fluency alone.

But ultimately, the Lingodeer app is a very, very big step in the right direction and is everything Duolingo should have been but wasn’t. I would definitely recommend using Lingodeer along side a good set of grammar textbooks or when taking a class.

Check out the official Lingodeer site for links to the app/play store to give it a download! https://www.lingodeer.com/

Do you have another app or Korean learning source you want me to review? Send me an ask!