#rape apologism
“It’s not a baby it’s a clump of cells.”
And if it were found on Mars rather than your uterus, you know what it would be classified as? Life.
A uterus is part of a person. That person has to give up a lot to be pregnant for nine months. Mars doesn’t give up anything to have life exist on it. Mars is also not a sentient being with thoughts and feelings and emotions. A pregnant person is, and they have rights. It’s not ok to take away those rights because an embryo or fetus is in their uterus. Mars doesn’t have these rights because it’s not a body, so it doesn’t have bodily autonomy.
After fertilization, there’s not a baby, there’s an embryo. Eight weeks later it becomes a fetus. When childbirth takes place, the fetus becomes an infant. Baby is an emotional term that’s fine to use in your personal life but shouldn’t be used when debating others’ rights, or it becomes emotionally manipulative.
- Emma
A person consents to the possibility of becoming pregnant whenever she chooses to have sex. It’s a consequence of an action. Bodily autonomy argument doesn’t work here. Not to mention, the life growing inside her is asked to give up a lot more by being forcibly murdered.
“Embryo” and “fetus” are nothing more than stages of development, much like “infant”, “toddler”, and “adolescent”. At no point does the subject not have its own unique *human* DNA. You’re dehumanizing what’s clearly human to justify murder. The same dehumanizing tactics were used to justify slavery in the US and the Holocaust in Europe.
Nope. Consent isn’t transitive. Arguing that it is isn’t only relevant to this debate, but is also rape apologism (“well she kissed me so obviously she wanted to have sex!” implies that consent is transitive). Bodily autonomy does work here because the pregnant person (who isn’t always “her” btw) has bodily autonomy, while the embryo or fetus does not.
Murder is a legal term and by definition, abortion is not murder. You could say killed, but if you’re going to argue that killing is inherently wrong, I hope you’ve never stepped on a bug. Or eaten fruits or vegetables or meat or wheat or…you get the point. The embryo or fetus inside the pregnant person is only able to be there with the consent of the pregnant person, because it is inside the pregnant person’s body.
That’s exactly what embryo and fetus are, I don’t see what your argument is. DNA doesn’t equal sentience or bodily autonomy. You’re dehumanizing pregnant people. It’s not even implied dehumanization, you literally compared them to Mars - a non human planet - in your op.
I don’t know if you’re black or Jewish, but if not, it’s completely unacceptable to use slavery and the holocaust as arguments. Don’t compare anything that’s not slavey to slavery, and the same goes for the holocaust.
- Emma
(I am walking through the centre aisle of the supermarket when a colleague screams out:)
Colleague: “NO! I ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT HAVE SEX WITH YOU!”
(I run to the aisle and make it just as security arrives as well. The colleague is shaking and the man is staring at her completely confused. The man is escorted to a secure area while the police are called, and the colleague is taken to the staff room. I go into the administration office with the other managers on duty. We check the footage to see if anything was caught. We see him walk up to the colleague and ask a question, she then slaps him and shouts. Moments later I appear. We go into the staff room to see how the colleague is doing. She has calmed down a bit.)
Colleague: “Is the man alright?”
Me: “Is HE alright?”
Colleague: “I don’t want him to get in trouble.”
Me: “But he solicited you!”
Colleague:*starting to cry* “NO! He… he asked me where the bolognese sauce was, and I panicked…”
Manager: “So, you accused him of coming on to you?”
Colleague: “I PANICKED!”
(I got a call on my phone from security that we needed to come out. There was a woman screaming in the background. We all went out as the police arrived. The man appeared to have been beaten, admittedly by his wife, who was being held on the other side of the room. We explained the situation and the wife fainted at the revelation. Everyone was allowed to leave, but we requested that our colleague apologise for the confusion. She refused, and I apologised for her.
Our colleague had worked with us for several years at that point and we had never had a problem. She had an anxiety disorder, but was adamant that she was fine. It happened another two times [one where she actually screamed “rape” after an elderly gentleman asked if she could check an expiry date], before she admitted she had stopped taking her medication; the reason being that she was nervous to submit the repeat prescription. We offered her paid leave while she got herself sorted out, but after a month she handed in her notice.)
This story is an anti-feminist’s dream. It’s got everything.
People believing a woman’s false accusation without question? Check.
Woman literally screaming “rape” when a man talks to her? Check.
Poor male victim being abused by women? Check.
Hysterical women who overreact? Check.
Lying woman caring only about herself and refusing to take steps to fix the problem or apologize? Check.
Really, it’s a work of art. The only thing missing is an explanation as to what planet OP lives on where women are ever taken this seriously about harassment or assault and where someone trying NOT to draw attention to themselves will scream loudly in a way guaranteed to get more people focused on them and asking questions.
But other than the fact that it makes no sense whatsoever and is clearly designed to get people to continue to disbelieve women when they talk about sexual violence they’ve experienced, it’s a totally believable tale!
(I am the front desk manager at a hotel. We have an ad online looking for a part-time front desk clerk and I’ve been getting a lot of applications. About four months ago we hired a new guy, let’s call him Jim, who is working out to be one of the best employees we’ve had in years, and I’m really hoping to get just as lucky with the next person. Everybody loves him and he has the potential to advance to a manager position in the future if things keep up. Just before three pm, a young lady walks in with a file folder and I can already tell she is here to apply for the job. I go to greet her.)
Girl: “Hi. May I speak with the manager, please?”
Me: “Is this regarding a job application?”
Girl:“Yes, it is.”
Me:“Wonderful! My name is [My Name] and I’m the front desk manager. Pleasure to meet you.”
Girl:“Likewise! My name is [Girl] and I would like to apply for the position you have available.” *she pulls a resume from her folder and hands it to me* “As you can see by my resume I am more than qualified and would be perfect for this job.” *her resume is average to say the least* “There is only one thing holding me back…”
Me: “All right, and what might that be?”
Girl:“Well, do you have an employee named Jim working here? Jim [Last Name]?”
Me:“Yes, I do. He is my best employee.”
Girl: *looks surprised* “Oh, well, I can’t be in the same building with him due to a restraining order I have against him. I can’t work here as long as he’s on your staff. So…”
Me:“Well, then, I guess I won’t be able to consider you. I’m very sorry. Have a lovely day.”
(I hand her back her resume and she looks at me with this devilish look that tells me this girl is a troublemaker. She kind of smiles.)
Girl:“Do you guys do criminal record checks?” *she has a huge smirk as she asks this*
Me: “Yes, ma’am, we do a criminal record check on every employee, including on Jim.”
Girl:“Well, he—”
Me:“We are fully aware of his past and the general manager and I have decided that we are comfortable enough with him to overlook it. We firmly believe that everybody deserves a second chance and Jim is no different. And as I said, he is my best employee, one of the best we’ve had in years, and I have no intentions of firing him as long as he’s doing his job and being honest with us. Is there anything else?”
(She goes red in the face and puckers her lips.)
Girl:“Well, that’s wonderful! I’m so happy to hear he’s doing such a wonderful job. That’s just great. Yeah. Well, can I leave you my resume anyway in case something comes up?”
Me:“Well, things do change so I suppose I could hold on to it but as I said, I have no intentions of firing him so unless he quits I have nothing available for you here. Now if you’ll excuse me, I have to wrap up and head home. Thank you.”
(I go back to my office, file the resume and think nothing more of it. The next morning the phone rings and a familiar voice asks to be put through to the general manager. I recognize her right away as the girl from the night before. I overhear my manager’s side of the conversation and it’s clear that she’s going over my head to get this guy fired. After about 15 minutes the general manager hangs up and calls me in to the office.)
General Manager: “You’re not going to believe this: a girl just called and tried to talk me into firing Jim so we could hire her. She said that she is perfect for the job and that we need her on staff but that you are discriminating against her by putting her in a situation where she can’t work here.”
Me:“What?!”
General Manager: “Yeah, according to little miss law school here, it’s illegal to hire people who have restraining orders against them because it prevents their victims from being able to work at those same places.”
Me: “Seriously? She’s crazy. That girl is nothing but a troublemaker and even if Jim wasn’t here I wouldn’t want her on staff. I don’t need that kind of childishness around here.”
General Manager: “Yeah, she also told me we were breaking the law by having her resume here and told me that I have to destroy it because it might be in an area where Jim could see it.”
Me:“She insisted on leaving it. I gave it back to her!”
General Manager: “Oh, I know. I know her type and what they do. This ain’t my first rodeo. Not my first experience with a restraining order either. You should have hear how quickly she changed her tune when I told her that by coming here and calling me she was actually violating her own restraining order thereby making it null and void. I told her I would be giving this information and the security tapes to Jim and his probation officer. She just went silent, then told me happily to never mind and to tell Jim to have a lovely day and to enjoy his job. Unbelievable, some people.”
Me: “Wow. Did she really void her own restraining order?”
General Manager: “Probably. Depends on the terms and conditions, I guess. Anyway, do me a favor and pull up the security footage from last night when she came in and prepare an incident report, please. Let’s wrap this up right now and be done with it.”
(It turned out she had done the exact same thing at Jim’s second job where he worked as a bouncer at a bar. The girl didn’t even need work; she had a full time job and was going to school but was determined to make his life difficult. I don’t know what is going to come of it all but it still amazes me how hateful and vindictive some people can be.)
I have to say, I believe it.
Oh, I don’t mean the boring, misogynist tale by whiny men that “women make false accusations and ruin men’s lives just out of spite and are always taken way too seriously” bit (their favorite version of this tale is, of course, the false rape accusation).
I mean the part where men are being dismissive and acting as if Jim being enough of a danger to a woman that a restraining order against him was necessary is no big deal.
I mean the part where the GM talks about restraining orders like he’s been slapped with a few himself.
I mean the part where OP acts as if wanting some consequences for Jim’s predatory behavior is being a “troublemaker.”
I mean the part where they bring up Jim being good at his job and well-liked as if any of that precludes him from being a misogynist and a predator.
I mean the part where men will respond to this with “not all men”, while failing to actually condemn (and sometimes even while defending) the attitudes and behaviors here that they want to be dissociated from.
All of that is totally realistic. But the chances of this story having actually happened are slim to none.
Thanks to @goonst for this submission.
