lyannas:

Or, Dorne is Westeros’ erotic, exotic, made complete with a helping handful of racism on top.

As someone from a West Asian culture living in a Western country, I had noticed something early on in the depiction of the Dornish that hit close to home and sat ill with me. To begin with, we were informed of the existence of the Dornish yet did not meet a prominent Dornish character until book 3, Oberyn Martell, who was observed through Tyrion’s POV chapters . Before we meet him, a few things are made clear: Dorne makes wine, they’re still upset over Princess Elia’s death, and they are very much the other. When anyone from north of Dorne speaks about the Dornish, they specify it as such, referring to them as Dornish, Dornishmen, and Dornish women.  They are set apart from other Westerosis in the similar way to the Iron Islanders. Their culture is different, therefore specifications are required. While this in no way is a bad thing, as all cultures should be different in some way, discussion of Dornish culture by non-Dornish sources reveals a type of racism reserved specifically for the Dornish.  Tyrion when he first meets Oberyn considers cracking asking “if he knew how a Dornishman differed from a cowflop”, an example of the casual racism that all non-Dornish seem to hold of the Dornish.

The problem goes beyond the racism of the Westerosi characters, however. George R. R. Martin failed the Dornish (and the Essosi) in several aspects of writing, by using racist tropes in his depiction of them and by introducing the Dornish so late and with so little. He did not introduce a prominent Dornish character until book 3, did not provide a Dornish POV until book 4, and even then gave us very little. Of the 9 Dornish POV chapters in books 1-5, one of them belongs to the pretty racist Reachman Arys Oakheart, 2 belong to the Norvoshi Areo Hotah, and the last 6 are split between Quentyn (4 chapters) and Arianne (2 chapters). While there appears to be more Arianne chapters to come in TWOW (2 so far), this is a shockingly small amount of Dornish perspective, with Quentyn’s story not even taking place in Dorne (and ending with his death).

In this essay, I’ll tackle the history of this anti-Dornish racism, how it is practiced by those in Westeros and abroad, and the (often racist) tropes Martin uses to prop up it.

Keep reading

wickedjaime:

It’s nigh impossible to go too long in the Jaime and/or Jaime x Brienne fandom without hearing talk of people headcanoning Jaime Lannister as being a bisexual disaster, but from where did this talk derive? 

Interpretations of the text, of course! But what could be there, you say? How much so called evidence could there possibly be?

A lot. 

A whole lot. 

Now, I think we can all agree that any such textual evidence was unintentional on GRRM’s part; it’s more than quite likely that GRRM thinks he’s written Jaime to be a heterosexual man. That doesn’t change what he wrote, though, nor how his writing can be interpreted—or, in this case, hasbeen interpreted.

Bi Jaime headcanons were all born from endless textual bits of evidence concerning Jaime. 

My fellow Jaime stans, let me introduce to you all the ways GRRM accidentally made Jam Lan far less heterosexual than he intended.

Unintentional Homoeroticism, Unintentional Homoeroticism Everywhere

There is a plethora of homoerotic imagery and wording throughout Jaime’s interactions and thoughts with the men he has literary connections with—the men he respects and admires, begrudgingly or openly, because he perceives them to be honorable. Those who read Jaime as bi half-joke that, because of the pattern of the sort of men he’s “into,” he’s honorsexual. Though we joke, our humor and our interpretations are all born from the text itself, and how they can be read, especially if the reader isn’t looking through a heteronormative lens. Let’s break ‘em down—in chronological order of Jaime meeting them/falling for them.

Jaime and Brynden Tully (or, slutty questions at dinner tables, with a side of silver fox thirsting)

Brynden “the Blackfish” Tully is example A, the one who started it all—Jaime’s first honorcrush, you could say. Dive in to the quote:

[Lysa Tully] had been a pretty girl, in truth; dimpled and delicate, with long auburn hair. Timid, though. Prone to tongue-tied silences and fits of giggles, with none of Cersei’s fire.Her older sister had seemed more interesting, though Catelyn was promised to some northern boy, the heir of Winterfell … but at that age, no girl interested Jaime half so much as Hoster’s famous brother, who had won renown fighting the Ninepenny Kings upon the Stepstones. At table he had ignored poor Lysa, whilst pressing Brynden Tully for tales of Maelys the Monstrous and the Ebon Prince. (AFFC, Jaime V)

This paragraph pretty much sums it up. Young Jaime found the Tully sisters to be attractive; he thought Lysa was pretty, but he was only legitimately attracted to Catelyn (we’ll dive into that later on). And yet, he ignored them both to chat up their uncle—who is quite likely to be gay himself, but that’s another topic. 

Now obviously, this wasn’t written to have non-hetero subtext or connotations—GRRM wanted to stress that Jaime hero-worshipped Brynden because of his fighting prowess and achievements on the battlefield, so much so that he ignored two pretty girls, even one he was actually attracted to, in order to speak with said hero. 

But… the phrasing and wording of it all:

Her older sister had seemed more interesting […] but at that age, no girl interested Jaime half so much as Hoster’s famous brother. […] At table he had ignored poor Lysa, whilst pressing Brynden Tully for tales of Maelys the Monstrous and the Ebon Prince.

He ignored Lysa, a pretty girl, and Catelyn, the girl he was actually into,becauseno girlwas more interesting than Brynden Tully. What a way to phrase that, right.

But that was pre-canon. What does Jaime think about Brynden currently?

[Brynden] Tully had a craggy face, deeply lined and windburnt beneath a shock of stiff grey hair, but Jaime could still see the great knight who had once enthralled a squire with tales of the Ninepenny Kings. (AFFC Jaime VI)

Enthralled. Do you know how strong of a word that is?

Let’s have Merriam-Webster define it:

Enthrall: to hold spellbound; charm  

To hold spellbound. Jaime was spellbound by Brynden Tully. Charmed.

What an intense adjective to describe a teen’s hero worship. It’s a word with heavy romantic connotations to it, far more appropriate to describe an infatuation, or romantic relationship. You’d think GRRM would save such language for describing Jaime’s feelings for Cersei, but no, GRRM used it for Brynden. LOL. Out of all the words GRRM could use to describe Jaime’s attachment to Brynden, that’s the one he chose? And we’re not supposed to read that as homoerotic? Byeeeeee

So, to revise Jaime’s recollection concerning the time he ignored the Tully sisters to chat up their uncle: no girl was more interesting than Brynden Tully, the knight who Jaime was enthralledby. 

Still not seeing it? Let’s look at the whole line:

[…] but Jaime could still seethe great knight who had once enthralled a squire with tales of the Ninepenny Kings. 

Jaime can stillsee the knight who had enthralled his teenaged self. So you could say that if he still sees that man, even now, that means that he is… stillenthralled by Brynden. Still spellbound. Still… charmed. 

And can we talk about the whole paragraph?

Tully had a craggy face, deeply lined and windburnt beneath a shock of stiff grey hair, but Jaime could still see the great knight who had once enthralled a squire with tales of the Ninepenny Kings.

That’s a medieval way of saying “Yeah you got older, but you’re still a snack.” 

Like. Jaime really out here saying that Brynden Tully has aged like fine wine. How hetero of him. 

Also, haha, I looked up “craggy,”—the word Jaime used to describe Brynden’s face—on my computer’s dictionary, and, WELL:

BAHAHAHAHAHA

Jaime: He’s old and rugged but in a SEXY way I mean have you ever SEEN a silver fox like this

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA

So, revising again: No girl was more interesting to Jaime than Brynden Tully, the ruggedly attractive knight who Jaime was, and arguably still is, enthralledby.

You can’t get any straighter than that, I’d say. And somehow, when you breakdown Jaime’s relationship Arthur Dayne, it only gets straighter. 

Jaime and Arthur Dayne (or, symbolic virginity loss, ghosts living in Jaime’s head rent free, and putting a ring cloak on it)

Arthur Dayne is the second honorcrush of Jaime’s, but the most vital. As the man who knighted Jaime and mentored him, Arthur Dayne is Jaime’s ultimate symbol for honor and the zenith of knighthood, and imperative to Jaime’s characterization and story. 

He’s also the one who provides us with a shit ton of homoeroticism in Jaime’s chapters, even years after his death, as Jaime thinks about him all the time. 

And he’d held his own against the Smiling Knight, though it was Ser Arthur who slew him. What a fight that was, and what a foe. The Smiling Knight was a madman, cruelty and chivalry all jumbled up together, but he did not know the meaning of fear. And Dayne, with Dawn in hand … The outlaw’s longsword had so many notches by the end that Ser Arthur had stopped to let him fetch a new one. “It’s that white sword of yours I want,” the robber knight told him as they resumed, though he was bleeding from a dozen wounds by then. “Then you shall have it, ser,” the Sword of the Morning replied, and made an end of it. (ASOS, Jaime VIII)

Jaime reminisces about the first time he spent time with Arthur, when they fought the Smiling Knight and his goons. Similarly to Jaime’s memories of Brynden, most of the language Jaime uses can be read as romantic in tone, or flowery. 

First, we have this:

What a fight that was, and what a foe.

Jaime is in awe of Arthur’s skill in battle. It reminds me of this:

Jaime had done many wicked things, but themancouldfight! (AFFC, Brienne I)

Here, you could say Brienne is the young Jaime to a seasoned Jaime’s Arthur—expressing admiration for a more experienced warrior’s fighting skills in a dreamy or fangirlish manner. And while that’s true, we can’t forget the other connotations here. Considering the fact that Brienne is very much in love with Jaime—and so, any admiration she’d have for him is laced with sexual and romantic attraction—to have these lines be so similar does no favors for the “Jaime is straight,” narrative GRRM thought he wrote.

Jaime goes on:

And Dayne, with Dawn in hand…

This line is quite dreamy—you can practically hear Jaime fangirl sigh while thinking it. Dreamy is the only way to describe it; you even have the ellipsis to seal the deal. An ellipsis,a tool writers use to show a character is lost for words. Again, language. A writer isn’t going to put an ellipsis for no reason, especially in inner monologue. The ellipsis also implies that Jaime is stopping himself from full blown waxing poetic tributes about Arthur—showing restraint, living in denial, as a repressed bisexual or gay man from a medieval society might. 

While thinking of Arthur on the battlefield, at his best—and, by a warrior’s standards, his most beautiful—Jaime is lost for words. Lost for words, while reminiscing of Arthur, and how amazing he looked on the battlefield, holding his sword, Dawn. 

Swords. Something we know is constantly used as a euphemism for penises in GRRM’s writing. It wasn’t supposed to be one here, but, hey, with the dreamlike, fangirly energy exuding from this line, it does come to mind. 

Now, to this:

The outlaw’s longsword had so many notches by the end that Ser Arthur had stopped to let him fetch a new one. "It’s that white sword of yours I want,“ the robber knight told him as they resumed, though he was bleeding from a dozen wounds by then. “Then you shall have it, ser,” the Sword of the Morning replied, and made an end of it.

Jaime has full recollection of a scene and conversation he wasn’t even a part of from almost twenty years ago. Such a fixation, especially in fiction, is used to demonstrate a character’s fanboyism, yes (and that’s what GRRM was going for here, as well as showing that an older Jaime, in his trauma and bitterness, longs for what he considers the good old days, and is recollecting these events through a nostalgic lens) but more often than not, fixations such as this are usually reserved for romantic imagery. Jaime remembers how well Arthur won the battle by describing all the wounds the Smiling Knight had, and the Smiling Knight’s dialogue is remembered only to give Arthur’s witty reply context in Jaime’s mind. Every word and sight is preserved within Jaime’s memory to keep Arthur exalted as some angelic figure who remains pure, untainted, legendary, and unyielding in maintaining honor.

And if Arthur is an angelic figure, Jaime is his acolyte. Like an overzealous worshipper, Jaime sees Arthur’s state of being (or rather, the state of being Jaime believes him to have) as the standard so much that it’s gotten to the point of wanting to behim. And because that standard is impossible, he fails constantly. He uses the pedestal he has placed Arthur on to put himself down—remind him of how far he has fallen:

And me, that boy I was … when did he die, I wonder? When I donned the white cloak? When I opened Aerys’s throat? That boy had wanted to be Ser Arthur Dayne, but someplace along the way he had become the Smiling Knight instead.(ASOS, Jaime VIII)

And even years after Arthur’s death, Jaime craves his approval:

He wondered what Ser Arthur Dayne would have to say of this lot. “How is it that the Kingsguard has fallen so low,” most like. “It was my doing,” I would have to answer. “I opened the door, and did nothing when the vermin began to crawl inside.”(ASOS, Jaime VIII)

Postmortem, Arthur has Jaime’s undying love, his loyalty, his worship. 

He also has Jaime’s symbolic virginity.

It had been years since his last vigil. And I was younger then, a boy of fifteen years. He had worn no armor then, only a plain white tunic. The sept where he’d spent the night was not a third as large as any of the Great Sept’s seven transepts. Jaime had laid his sword across the Warrior’s knees, piled his armor at his feet, and knelt upon the rough stone floor before the altar. When dawn came his knees were raw and bloody. “All knights must bleed, Jaime,” Ser Arthur Dayne had said, when he saw. “Blood is the seal of our devotion.” With dawn he tapped him on the shoulder; the pale blade was so sharp that even that light touch cut through Jaime’s tunic, so he bled anew. He never felt it. A boy knelt; a knight rose. The Young Lion, not the Kingslayer. (AFFC, Jaime I)

In vivid, romantic detail, with the most sensual tone and flowery language possible, Jaime tells us of his knighting, not too long after he and Arthur defeated the Kingswood Brotherhood. And these details are brimming with sexual and romantic imagery, even marriage symbolism.

First, the setting. Jaime was knighted in a sept, a Westerosi church. In our own world, most weddings are held in churches. The setting fuels the marriage imagery here, and is its backbone. 

Then we get to Jaime’s appearance. He is wearing white. White, the color of purity; a color associated with virginity in Western societies. Since Jaime was knighted before he had sex with Cersei in that inn on Eel Alley, it’s possible that Jaime was literally a virgin, here—as, considering how important Eel Alley is to Jaime, it seems that that was the first time he and Cersei went all the way, so that means that most likely, Jaime was literally and metaphorically a virgin at the time of his knighting. Either way, in a knightly sense, Jaime is a virgin, as he is about to become one and receive his title.

White is also the color most brides wear to their weddings—in our world, at least. The imagery reminds the reader of the traditions in our own world, whether or not it’s one in Westeros. So, by wearing white in a church, Jaime looks the part of someone about to be married. A virgin, awaiting their wedding ceremony. 

Onto the actual knighting, where the sexual and marriage imagery intertwines. During a knighting, vows are made, just as vows are made during a wedding. The vows are similar—both make promises of loyalty, honesty, faithfulness, and most importantly, devotion. And Jaime is devotedto Arthur—he literally spends hours upon hours on his knees, awaiting Arthur’s arrival. He knelt so long that his knees bled open. Arthur even makes the blood symbolize he and Jaime’s bond, saying that blood is “the seal of their devotion.” 

And that seal works in a pure manner as much as a carnal one. The image of staying on one’s knees for someone evokes both religious and sexual imagery. When most people pray, they do it on their knees… but, there’s also another reason someone would stay on their knees so long they’ve bled for someone—if they’re giving oral sex. 

The religious imagery of bleeding knees while praying checks out. Jaime does worship Arthur, in a way, far more than he does the actual gods of the Seven. Symbolism for praying to show Jaime’s respect for knighthood, and especially Arthur, fits well, but also stresses his love for Arthur. 

And the sexual imagery, well. Let’s look at the line in question:

When dawn came his knees were raw and bloody.

Arthur’s sword is named Dawn. Swords are metaphorical penises in ASOIAF more often than not. And dawn came. While Jaime was on his knees. So long that his knees had bled. Yeah. Read in a different light, that sentence can mean something way more explicit than intended.

Obviously, in the sentence itself, the dawn being referred to is the literal dawn—sunrise. But again, double speak. And if you combine this with all of the sexual imagery up next, it only becomes more potent.

So, Arthur knights Jaime. Let’s look at that quote closer:

When dawn came his knees were raw and bloody. “All knights must bleed, Jaime,” Ser Arthur Dayne had said, when he saw. “Blood is the seal of our devotion.” With dawn he tapped him on the shoulder; the pale blade was so sharp that even that light touch cut through Jaime’s tunic, so he bled anew. He never felt it. A boy knelt; a knight rose.

Arthur has Dawn wielded, and he uses it to knight Jaime. He is gentle when he touches Jaime with the sword, only using “a light touch,” and tries not to hurt Jaime, but Dawn is so sharp that it penetrates through Jaime’s clothes and skin anyway. When looked through the “sword = penis” lens, Arthur’s actions symbolize a man gently taking his lover’s virginity. 

The lost virginity metaphor resides in the cut itself. Jaime’s whitetunic—white, the color of virgins and purity, the color of brides—is slashed by Dawn’s gentle touch, and his shoulder bleeds. Blood that is most likely virginal in a literal sense, but most certainly in a metaphorical one, as it bleeds through torn white clothing, and the blood belongs to one who has just become a knight, something he hadn’t been before. 

Jaime also describes his wound from Dawn’s cut as “bleeding anew.” This evokes the imagery of one becoming undone in a physical and spiritual sense, one where the person in question has transcended beyond describable feeling. It’s like a religious awakening, which coincides with the worship aspect Jaime has toward Arthur and knighthood—but also an orgasm, especially one experienced by someone who has never had one before (and Jaime is that someone, in this case, as he’s either a virgin, or at least sexually inexperienced). That sense of euphoria continues with Jaime’s lack of awareness with the cut itself—he is in so much awe of what is happening that he never even felt the pain of the cut. 

And after the state of becoming anew—which you could say is the afterglow of the knighting, the virginity loss—Jaime says this:

A boy knelt; a knight rose.

After being penetrated with Arthur’s sword, and bleeding through his white tunic, he is no longer a boy. He is a knight—an adult. A man.In Westeros, people refer to male teens—boys—losing their virginities as them “becoming a man.” That Jaime sees himself as becoming a man after bleeding from Arthur Dayne’s metaphorical penis’ cut only supports the sexual undertones of lost virginity. 

I’d also like to point out that Arthur calls Jaime by his first name here—not “my lord.” This is vital. In this society, the highborn do not call each other by their first name unless there is a closeness between them, an intimacy, be it a platonic or romantic one. Considering the gentleness on display on Arthur’s part here, that he calls Jaime by his name shows the trust they share, specifically Jaime’s love and trust in Arthur, and Arthur’s respect of that love and trust. It only further shapes the imagery of a man gently taking someone’s virginity with someone he is close with.

In terms of imagery, Jaime’s knighting is not unlike his swordfight with Brienne, which was filled with double-speak,marriage symbolism,andsexual innuendos. Just as Arthur cuts Jaime’s white virginal tunic with his symbolic penis, so does Jaime cut Brienne’s inner thigh with hissymbolic penis:

His point scraped past her parry and bit into her upper thigh.A red flower blossomed, and Jaime had an instant to savor the sight of her blood […] (ASOS, Jaime III)

Both young Jaime and Brienne’s virginal blood spill at the cuts, and in both instances, Jaime is enthralled by the bleeding. With Brienne’s blood, he “savors the sight,” and with his own bloodshed he is so lost in wonderment that he “never felt” the cut.

It’s both hilarious and beautiful that there are so many parallels with Jaime’s knighting by Arthur to the sex and marriage metaphor that masquerades as Jaime’s swordfight with Brienne. Brienne, who is Jaime’s canonical love interest. Like. GRRM legit wrote Jaime to have similar sexual and romantic scenarios and imagery with his female love interest… and a man. You can’t do that and just not expect me to see Jaime’s bisexual energy. You just can’t. The fact that both scenes work so well and are emotionally evocative just makes the whole thing even better.

Yep. With exaltation years after death, and the symbolization of marriage and lost virginity, Jaime and Arthur have a dynamic that is sensual, strong, devoted, and, most importantly for this meta—lacking heterosexuality.

Jaime and Rhaegar Targaryen (or, “Notice me, senpai!” plus way too detailed reminiscing) 

Jaime’s crush on Rhaegar isn’t as prolific as the other dynamics listed in this analysis, but I still find it worth noting. Jaime respected Prince Rhaegar, and feels tremendous guilt over not being able to save him or his children, Rhaenys and Aegon. 

But there’s a bit of a crush energy to Jaime’s views on Rhaegar. Here’s Jaime’s memory of the last time he and Rhaegar ever spoke.

The day had been windy when he said farewell to Rhaegar, in the yard of the Red Keep. The prince had donned his night-black armor, with the three-headed dragon picked out in rubies on his breastplate. “Your Grace,” Jaime had pleaded, “let Darry stay to guard the king this once, or Ser Barristan. Their cloaks are as white as mine.” 

Prince Rhaegar shook his head. “My royal sire fears your father more than he does our cousin Robert. He wants you close, so Lord Tywin cannot harm him. I dare not take that crutch away from him at such an hour.”

Jaime’s anger had risen up in his throat. “I am not a crutch. I am a knight of the Kingsguard.”

“Then guard the king,” Ser Jon Darry snapped at him. “When you donned that cloak, you promised to obey.”

Rhaegar had put his hand on Jaime’s shoulder. “When this battle’s done I mean to call a council. Changes will be made. I meant to do it long ago, but … well, it does no good to speak of roads not taken. We shall talk when I return." 

Those were the last words Rhaegar Targaryen ever spoke to him. Outside the gates an army had assembled, whilst another descended on the Trident. So the Prince of Dragonstone mounted up and donned his tall black helm, and rode forth to his doom. (AFFC, Jaime I)

What catches the eye is the immense detail. Just like Jaime’s memories of Arthur—whom we know he thirsted for—every single detail of Rhaegar is immortalized in Jaime’s brain—what Rhaegar wore, what the weather was like, exactly what was said. And it makes sense for Jaime to remember all of this so vividly—the Rebellion was an incredibly traumatizing time for Jaime, and it was the last time he ever saw Rhaegar alive. 

At the same time, we have things like Jaime remembering that Rhaegar touchedhim, as well as his appearance. It’s relatively innocuous things to remember so vividly without a hint of romantic connotations being there, and as such, probably wouldn’t stand out in JonCon’s recollections of Rhaegar, who was definitely in love with him. 

There’s also the matter of Jaime begging Rhaegar to take him with him to battle. Jaime was understandably eager to get away from Aerys, but I think he also wanted nothing more than to protect Rhaegar, the prince that he loved and respected. The prince he wished he was king. 

This particular line should be noted:

"Your Grace,” Jaime had pleaded, “let Darry stay to guard the king this once, or Ser Barristan. Their cloaks are as white as mine.” 

Jaime calls Rhaegar “Your Grace,” the title meant for kings or queens, not princes. It’s a strange thing, and, to my knowledge, no prince or princess is ever called “Your Grace,” in the entire series besides this one instance. It’s most likely author error, as Jaime outwardly calling Rhaegar by the king’s title is open treason, but in universe, it works at least for Jaime’s character. He sees Rhaegar as his king, and he wants to leave with him—maybe even die with him.

We also get a bit of “Notice me, senpai!” energy from the “their cloaks are as white as mine,” line. Jaime wants to prove his worth as a Kingsguard, but he also wants Rhaegar to see him. For someone who isn’t a weeb and, therefore, isn’t familiar with that trope (which seems to be more prevalent in anime than Western media) the connotation wouldn’t click, but for me… I don’t know, it just has that tone of the subordinate wanting their dreamy superior to take an interest in them. 

Either way, on its own, Jaime’s loyalty and oddly vivid memory of Rhaegar is standard hero worship, but when you combine it with everything else in this meta, it’s worth mentioning, and doesn’t come off as straight as it’s meant to be. 

Jaime and Ned Stark (or, villainous dick on the hero’s chest feat. obsession and boyfriend envy)

Jaime and Ned were a thing. On Jaime’s end, especially—and by that, I mean that Jaime is fucking obsessedwith the guy. Ned lives in Jaime’s head rent free almost as much as Main Honor Boyfriend Arthur does.

And yeah, we all know why. Ned was the one who walked in on Jaime sitting on the Iron Throne, right above where Aerys Targaryen’s freshly murdered corpse grew cold. Ned was the first person to judge Jaime for his actions, and Jaime has never forgotten it. He’s seemed to have used Ned as a symbol for allthe hatred and judgement he’s received for killing Aerys—a single representation of how the world perceives him, post Rebellion. 

Ned remembers this moment in vivid detail, as well:

“Aerys was dead on the floor, drowned in his own blood. His dragon skulls stared down from the walls. Lannister’s men were everywhere. Jaime wore the white cloak of the Kingsguard over his golden armor. I can see him still. Even his sword was gilded. He was seated on the Iron Throne, high above his knights, wearing a helm fashioned in the shape of a lion’s head. How he glittered!”

“I stopped in front of the throne, looking up at him. His golden sword was across his legs, its edge red with a king’s blood. My men were filling the room behind me. Lannister’s men drew back. I never said a word. I looked at him seated there on the throne, and I waited.At last Jaime laughed and got up. He took off his helm, and he said to me, ‘Have no fear, Stark. I was only keeping it warm for our friend Robert. It’s not a very comfortable seat, I’m afraid.’” (AGOT, Eddard II)

But the thing is, Ned isn’t as obsessed with the incident as Jaime is—for obvious reasons. He has no fond memories of Jaime, nor does he approve of him, but he is relatively unbothered by the man, beyond the few times in which he is forced to interact with him, or discuss him. 

Meanwhile, Jaime is…

You had no right to judge me either, Stark. (ASOS, Jaime II)

“Do you think the noble Lord of Winterfell wanted to hear my feeble explanations? Such an honorable man. He only had to look at me to judge me guilty.” (ASOS, Jaime V)

“By what right does the wolf judge the lion? By what right?” (ASOS, Jaime V)

Only [Eddard Stark’s] eyes had spoken; a lord’s eyes, cold and grey and full of judgment. (ASOS, Jaime VI)

[…] but the Blackfish was looking at him the way that Eddard Stark had looked at him when he’d found him on the Iron Throne with the Mad King’s blood upon his blade. (AFFC, Jaime VI)

…quite fixated on Ned’s disapproval of him. 

Now, the author’s intent behind Jaime’s fixation with Ned is clearly that Jaime subconsciously respects and admires Ned; he sees him as an honorable man, so it hurts that much more for someone of Ned’s standing to find him dishonorable, when Jaime wants nothing more than to be a peer with someone like Ned—which is why, as a coping mechanism, Jaime has taken that respect, admiration, and hurt, and twisted it into disdain and resentment. In a way, Jaime craves Ned’s approval just as he craves Arthur’s—postmortem, especially.

On paper, this dynamic is not romantic or sexual within itself—it’s simply two rivals connected through judgement and underlying trauma, where one character unknowingly manifests as an essential catalyst for the other character’s motivation and backstory. On paper, this dynamic can be quite heterosexual. 

The execution of it, however, is anything but. 

Jaime’s fixation on Ned is constant, and never loses potency; years later, it lives on, restless, even after Ned’s death—especially after Ned’s death. Ned Stark’s effect on Jaime Lannister is so powerful that you could literally organize Jaime’s life as Before Ned’s Judging GazeandAfter Ned’s Judging Gaze, and, that… is inherently essential and specific enough in its intensity to have romantic and sexual connotations, whether GRRM intended it to or not. It’s difficult to write a connection that strong between two characters without it being just the slightest bit sensual, at the very least—or in this case, full blown homoerotic—and GRRM, to my utter Jaime x Ned shipper’s glee, failed to do so.

Not to mention that there is so 

“I can see him still.” (AGOT, Eddard II)

much

“How he glittered!”

STARING

[…] through the night and the rain, he glimpsed the white of Jaime’s smile (AGOT, Eddard IX)

“He only had to look at me to judge me guilty.” (ASOS, Jaime V)

BETWEEN THEM

Only [Eddard Stark’s] eyes had spoken; a lord’s eyes, cold and grey and full of judgment. (ASOS, Jaime VI)

Ned could see rain running down his face. (AGOT, Eddard IX)

The backdrop for Jaime and Ned’s dynamic is one dipped in homoeroticism if one interprets Jaime’s obsession beyond what GRRM intended. And that backdrop fuels a certain scene between them that is kinda… sexy.

“I’m looking for my brother. You remember my brother, don’t you, Lord Stark?” (AGOT, Eddard IX)

Yes.This scene. 

To recap: Catelyn Stark has kidnapped and arrested Tyrion Lannister on charges of Bran Stark’s attempted murder. Jaime, being a protective big bro (but still in his villainous fuckboy phase) doesn’t take it well, and confronts Ned over Tyrion’s kidnapping, with the intent to murder him for his family’s transgression. After being reminded by Ned that if Jaime kills him, Catelyn will kill Tyrion, Jaime goes down the petty route and chooses to order Ned’s men murdered, instead.  

This confrontation is many things. Violent, shocking, dark—

—andbeyond sexually tense.

First, imagery:

Ser Jaime ripped his longsword from its sheath and urged his stallion forward. “Show me your steel, Lord Eddard. I’ll butcher you like Aerys if I must, but I’d sooner you died with a blade in your hand.” (AGOT, Eddard IX)

Now, I think it’s not much to say that fighting and sex are heavily acquainted with one another in GRRM’s writing—he writes his male characters to become aroused during battle, and most of them sate their lust afterward with camp followers and the like. And we’ve already established that, in ASOIAF, swords are endlessly used as euphemisms and metaphors for penises.

Ser Jaime ripped his longsword from its sheath and urged his stallion forward. 

Jaimeripped his sword from its sheath. Check the language there—ripped.In a literal sense, he’s only brandished his weapon in a rough manner. Metaphorically, ripping a sword from a sheath evokes the imagery of rough, violent sex. Sheaths are usually euphemisms for vaginas in GRRM’s work, but in this case, it works for anuses as well. Jaime plans to fight/kill Ned—or, metaphorically, “fuck him up his arse,” which is a phrase crude men in this setting use all the time to describe besting other men, physically or mentally.  

There’s also the matter of Jaime “urging his stallion forward,” right after showing Ned his metaphorical penis. Stallions, symbolically, are associated with male virility, particularly concerning their penises, or sexuality. “Stallion,” in slang or informal language, is a term for men with large penises, or, at the very least, men who exhibit sexual aggression and skill. This further strengthens the intense, unyielding, violent sexual tension between Jaime and Ned in this scene. And not just regular sexual tension, either; considering the bad blood between the men, you could say this line brings about not just imagery of rough sex, but specifically hatesex.

And all of that is just from one fucking line. It gets even more tense. And gayer.

“Show me your steel, Lord Eddard.”

Jaime has already taken out his sword—his penis—and he’s asking Ned to take his out, as well. Not just take it out, but show it to Jaime.Mmhmm.

Also, there’s the fact that the line “Show me your steel,” sounds a lot like this:

"Give me the sword, Kingslayer.”

“Oh, I will.” (ASOS, Jaime III)

Both lines have similar energies—the identical aggression, the same mirroring contempt… even a twined context and theme, since Jaime and Ned’s dynamic and the conflict of their dynamic is centered around honor, and Brienne, at that time of that quote, held conflict with Jaime concerning honor and judgment, just as Ned did. 

But most importantly, considering the fact that Jaime and Brienne’s fight in A Storm of Swords was filled to the brim with a plethora of sexual symbolism concerning swords, and the line “Give me the sword,” basically means, “Give me the dick”… well, “Show me your steel,” could certainly be used to mean show me your dick. And the fact that Brienne is Jaime’s love interest makes the parallel even more sexual. Jaime commanding a similar thing to Ned Stark that his love interest commands of him later on—something that was purposefullywritten to be a sexual innuendo—does nothing but rake up the homosexual energy here, and further stomp on any heterosexual “just two rivals having a pissing contest” imagery GRRM seemed to be going for. 

And it’s still not over. No.

It gets. GAYER.

Jaime Lannister poked at Ned’s chest with the gilded sword that had sipped the blood of the last of the Dragonkings. 

Do I even need to explain why this line is gay as fuck? 

Jaime’s holding his sword, his metaphorical penis, and is putting it on Ned’s chest. Not just touching him with it, but poking. Poking,which is certainly a verb you could use to describe an erect penis touching skin, especially a body part like the chest. This further coincides with GRRM loving to associate sexual arousal with violence in his work. Jaime’s at full mast here, and he’s ready to go—thing is, considering all the unintentional layers of the relationship between GRRM’s violence and sex metaphors, it reads more like he’s ready to not only fight, but fuck, too.

The body part GRRM chose is a chef’s kiss, too. He could have had Jaime aim the sword at Ned’s throat, or right between the eyes. But no. He chooses the chest. Perhaps he was going for the “he wants to stab Ned in the heart,” kind of thing but, yeah, not working, my guy. When metaphorical dicks start touching chests after a slew of sexual innuendos has risen, there’s really no going back, is there?

Something else great about this is the phrasing and language Ned chooses to use here. Jaime’s “gilded” sword sipped the last of Dragonkings’ blood, huh? By R’hllor, that reads like the point of view of a poetic, naive maiden, swooning over the bad boy who’s about to seduce her. And yeah, this is about Jaime’s side of things, not Ned’s, but I want to stress here that the sexual tension in this scene is far from one-sided. 

But here’s the true beauty of this line—which says a lot, because everything about this line is beyond gorgeously gay. This line comes after Jaime has ripped his sword from his sheath and commanded Ned to show him his steel—or rather, after Jaime has taken out his penis and asked Ned to show his own penis to Jaime’s. 

So now, we have an order to these sexual metaphors. First, Jaime ripped out his sword from its sheath (in this context, the sheath being his pants or underwear). By doing so, metaphorically, Jaime was undressing—exposing his penis. 

And now, he’s touching Ned with it. 

So, the order of Jaime’s literal actions toward Ned coincide with the usual order of sex; typically, people take off their clothes before they start going at it.

And then, we reach the end:

“Kill me,” he warned the Kingslayer, “and Catelyn will most certainly slay Tyrion.”

Jaime Lannister poked at Ned’s chest with the gilded sword that had sipped the blood of the last of the Dragonkings. “Would she? The noble Catelyn Tully of Riverrun murder a hostage? I think … not.” He sighed. “But I am not willing to chance my brother’s life on a woman’s honor.” Jaime slid the golden sword into its sheath. “So I suppose I’ll let you run back to Robert to tell him how I frightened you. I wonder if he’ll care.” Jaime pushed his wet hair back with his fingers and wheeled his horse around. (AGOT, Eddard IX)

Ned reminds Jaime that his murder would bring about Tyrion’s, so Jaime abstains. He sheaths his sword—or, puts his dick back in his pants—and then he…. flips his hair, and leaves. 

Flips his hair. 

I just. It’s so flirty. Even out of context it’s flirty, considering Jaime’s flamboyant personality, but in context? With all the metaphors we’ve just broken down? 

Bruh.

Let’s repeat the order here. Jaime rips his sword from his sheath, a.k.a. undresses, because he’s ready for some hatesex. He commands Ned to take out his sword, a.k.a. undress and show Jaime his penis. Ned warns him that he and Tyrion’s life are connected; you can’t kill one without the other dying. Jaime wants Tyrion to live. So he can’t fight Ned—the hatesex can’t happen. They are interrupted. No penetration took place—just some stripping, and a little chest-to-dick action. Jaime dresses, then flips his hair as he turns to leave. 

Am I the only one getting imagery of someone flirting with their fuck buddy after a sex session? Hair flipping is an action done to entice the person watching; it’s a sensual movement performed by models, dancers, and any celebrity who uses sex as part of their brand all the time. 

It’s flirting. Jaime is flirting with Ned. 

And honestly, Jaime has lowkey been flirting with Ned during the entirety of this scene. Teasinghim:

“The wolves are howling,” their leader said. Ned could see rain running down his face. “Such a small pack, though.”

“He was the Hand of the King.” The mud muffled the hooves of the blood bay stallion. The line parted before him. On a golden breastplate, the lion of Lannister roared its defiance. “Now, if truth be told, I’m not sure what he is.”

“I’m looking for my brother. You remember my brother, don’t you, Lord Stark? He was with us at Winterfell. Fair-haired, mismatched eyes, sharp of tongue. A short man.”

“You would not perchance have any notion of who might have wished my brother ill, would you?”

Jaime Lannister smiled.

[…] through the night and the rain, he glimpsed the white of Jaime’s smile […]

Jaime’s drawing this out, having fun with it. Its predator taunting its prey—or, specifically, since Jaime is a lion of Lannister—a cat, pawing at his favorite enemy. The tone of Jaime’s dialogue is very much like a flirtatious villain who lowkey wants to fuck the hero. 

And, most wonderfully, Ned knows he’s being teased, too, and Jaime himself admits to it:

“What do you think you’re doing?” [Littlefinger said.]

“He knows what he’s doing,” Ned said calmly.

Jaime Lannister smiled. “Quite true.”

And again, Ned isn’t helping the scene get any straighter. I already sort of mentioned how Ned and Jaime do nothing but stare at each other, but this scene really shows that, especially through Ned’s point of view. Throughout this scene, Ned is constantly describing Jaime.

What he wears:

On a golden breastplate, the lion of Lannister roared its defiance.

The times he smiles:

Jaime Lannister smiled.

Theway he smiles: 

Ned glimpsed the white of Jaime’s smile […]

The wetness of his hair, and the way he combs his fingers through it:

Jaime pushed his wet hair back with his fingers […]

And the fucking rain streaming down his face:

Ned could see rain running down his face.

(And yeah, it’s raining during this entire scene. As if we needed any more romantic imagery.)

There’s also Ned’s attention to Jaime’s sword—you know, his dick. First, Ned calls it “gilded.” Then, “golden.” The descriptors are not only flowery—again, evoking the imagery of an infatuated maiden taken by the bad boy—but they also tell us that Ned is watching this sword. Not taking his eyes off that dick.

And yes, in this scene, Ned’s constant observations of Jaime is meant to show that Ned is a warrior on alert, wary of a fight, preparing for battle… but we’ve already established GRRM’s insistence on intertwining swordfighting with sex, and his inability to make Jaime and Ned’s interactions fully hetero in nature.

Plus, when you remember how vivid Ned’s reminisce about Jaime’s appearance was…

“[…] Jaime wore the white cloak of the Kingsguard over his golden armor. I can see him still. Even his sword was gilded. He was seated on the Iron Throne, high above his knights, wearing a helm fashioned in the shape of a lion’s head. How he glittered!”

“I stopped in front of the throne, looking up at him.His golden sword was across his legs, its edge red with a king’s blood. My men were filling the room behind me. Lannister’s men drew back. I never said a word. I looked at him seated there on the throne, and I waited.At last Jaime laughed and got up. He took off his helm, and he said to me, ‘Have no fear, Stark. I was only keeping it warm for our friend Robert. It’s not a very comfortable seat, I’m afraid.’” (AGOT, Eddard II)

…it all just comes together. When it comes to Jaime, Ned is the “I am looking respectfully,” meme—but looking disrespectfully, since he has beef with homeboy. He is just so awareof Jaime’s physicality and external self, almost as aware as Jaime is of Ned’s internal self, his judgment of him—a judgment that haunts Jaime, and fuels his obsession over Ned. An obsession that is lined with sexual and romantic connotations.  

Thing is though, the hatesex scene doesn’t just give us hatesex imagery; it also gives us more insight into Jaime’s emotions regarding Ned. Not all of Jaime’s dialogue with Ned is flirtatious or teasing; some of it is passive aggressive, and referencing Jaime’s issues concerning Ned’s disapproval of him: 

“I’ll butcher you like Aerys if I must, but I’d sooner you died with a blade in your hand.”

Jaime unnecessarily brings up Aerys’ death, the very thing that causes the conflict between Jaime and Ned in the first place. As a coping mechanism, Jaime plays the part of the sadistic, violent, evil Kingslayer, the role society put him in after Aerys’ death. He reinforces Ned’s negative opinion of Jaime by bragging about killing Aerys, when in reality, he is incredibly bothered by the fact that Ned judges him for killing Aerys. He doubles down on the conflict between them to present the illusion that he’s comfortable with Ned’s feelings toward him, but the reader knows the truth—Jaime is hurt by Ned, even all these years later.

What stresses this even more is this random, odd line about Robert:

“So I suppose I’ll let you run back to Robert to tell him how I frightened you. I wonder if he’ll care.” 

Now, upon first reading, this doesn’t sound too impactful. Jaime is just insulting Ned for using Robert as protection, yeah? No big deal.

Except Jaime says this to Catelyn, in the next book:

“As for your Ned, he should have kissed the hand that slew Aerys, but he preferred to scorn the arse he found sitting on Robert’s throne.“ (ACOK, Catelyn VII)

Jaime makes it clear here that he hates the fact that Ned judges him, but supports Robert. 

And it makes sense—Robert was a man who sneered at and dehumanized the butchered corpses of children, publicly shamed his wife by parading around his mistresses and creating bastards where ever he went, beat and raped his wife, and chose to drink and whore instead of running his kingdom. He is far from honorable, yet Ned Stark supports him… all while shaming Jaime for being dishonorable. Jaime finds this hypocritical, and it makes Ned’s disapproval of him hurt that much more, but also enrage him. 

But that’s not all Jaime reveals to Cat regarding his take on Ned and Robert:

“I think Ned Stark loved Robert better than he ever loved his brother or his father … or even you, my lady. He was never unfaithful to Robert, was he?”

In Jaime’s eyes, Ned loves Robert more than he ever loved his brother Brandon, his father, even his wife—and especially more than Jaime, who he loves not at all. That part goes unsaid, but it doesn’t need to be spoken—the fact that Jaime randomly throws jabs about Ned and Robert’s relationship in the most bitter way possible more than once says it enough. Ned loves Robert. Robert, a man who is just as dishonorable as Jaime, if not more. The hypocrisy is salt in Jaime’s Ned-shaped wound. 

But it’s more than just salt.

Jaime is jealous. He is jealous of Robert, because for all of his dishonorable flaws and shortcomings, he has Eddard Stark’s love, and Jaime does not. He is jealous of Ned and Robert’s relationship. He is like a scorned, rejected suitor, seething from afar at the one his crush chose instead of him.

And the fact that Jaime talks about them as if they’re boyfriends only makes that imagery stronger.

“He was never unfaithfulto Robert, was he?”

Sure, Jaime’s just joking here, and is purposefully saying cruel things to hurt Catelyn, so he throws in her face that, while Ned cheated on her, he never “cheated” on Robert, his king—never forsook him, never betrayed him, never went turncloak. At least, that seems to be the authorial intent behind the line.

But here’s the thing. Firstly, during this conversation with Cat, Jaime is drunk as fuck:

As he laughed, she realized the wine had done its work; Jaime had drained most of the flagon, and he was drunk. (ACOK, Catelyn VII) 

And, you know, in vino veritas. Many people argue that a drunk man’s words are a sober man’s thoughts. I wouldn’t say Jaime is exempt from that.

Secondly, the fact that Jaime not only compared Ned’s loyalty to Robert to a faithful lover, but be jealous of that dynamic, does nothing but add to the homoerotic subtext in his own dynamic with Ned. And considering all of Nedbert’s homoerotic subtext (“Muscled like a maiden’s dream,” anyone?) Jaime being jealous of it just comes off as homosexually charged, as opposed to a heterosexual man being outraged at Ned’s hypocrisy, and nothing more.

Also, quick side note. This…

“He should have kissed the hand that slew Aerys.”

and this…

You ought to be blowing me kisses, wench, he wanted to tell her. (ASOS, Jaime VII)

…are pretty similar. In both scenes, Jaime is frustrated with Brienne and Ned, upset that they’ve interpreted his good intentions to be dishonorable (with Ned, he misunderstands why Jaime killed Aerys, and with Brienne, she misunderstands why Jaime had her imprisoned). 

Jaime gives us his deduction as to why Brienne and everyone else always assumes the worst of him:

Why must they misunderstand every bloody thing he did? Aerys. It all grows from Aerys. (ASOS, Jaime VII)

So Jaime believes that Brienne misunderstood why he imprisoned her because of Aerys… which isn’t really the case with Brienne at this point, but it’s definitelythe reason why Ned also misunderstands him. Again, making parallels with Ned and Jaime’s love interest is a lot of things, but straight ain’t one of em.

And to top it all off, with both scenarios, Jaime thinks that, instead of judging him or making negative assumptions, Brienne and Ned should have kissed him.

So, yeah. With intense admiration, repressed hurt over disapproval, jealousy over boyfriends best friends, a whole bunch of staring, and an almost-hatesex scene that reads like a release to an almost twenty year build up of obsession, Jaime Lannister and Ned Stark’s dynamic couldn’t get any homoerotic—nor could Jaime’s bisexuality be any more prevalent.

But it doesn’t even stop there. Brynden, Arthur, and Ned may have been the boyfriends Jaime never had, but there’s a few other men who sexually sparked something in him, but weren’t honorable enough to reach Boyfriend Status. 

Let’s get into the randos. And yes, Jaime is so fucking bi that he has random men he thinks about in almost exclusively sexual manners, rather than the romantic subtext he possesses with the male characters he has more of an emotional connection to. There’s a reason why I’m writing this meta, guise.

Miscellaneous Bisexual Shenanigans

Keep reading

nanshe-of-nina:

Thechaoskampf is a feature in many European and West Asian religions, where a god who symbolizes order fights and defeats a god or demon who symbolizes chaos. Most often, the chaos god is depicted as a serpent or a dragon and is often associated with salt water and the abyss. On the other hand, the god of order is most often associated with storms and fresh water. At best, the chaos god is simply amoral; at worst, the chaos god is pure evil.

Examples:

• Babylonian: Marduk vs. Tiamat
• Bhagavata: Krishna vs. Kaliya
• Caananite: Baal vs. Yam-Nahar
• Egyptian: Ra vs. Apep
• Greek: Cronus vs. Ophion, Zeus vs. Typhon
• Hittite: Tarhunt vs. Illuyanka
• Jewish: YHWH vs. Leviathan
• Norse: Thor vs. Jörmungandr
• Rigveda: Indra vs. Vritra
• Slavic: Perun vs. Veles
• Zoroastrian: Fereydun vs. Zahhak

It is also worth mentioning that the storm god is often (though not always) depicted as younger than the chaos god. Therefore, the chaoskampf can also symbolize the triumph of a new order over an old one. During the rise of Christianity, the chaoskampf was often used to symbolize Christianity triumphing over paganism (for example, Saint George and the Dragon.)

All of these things are interesting when considering the Ironborn and their native religion in A Song of Ice and Fire. The Ironborn, contrary to most real world cultures, appear to align themselves with the chaos god in this equation. Furthermore, many of the Ironborn are rigid believers in “The Old Way” and cannot abide the thought of living any other way.

The books aren’t finished yet, but some readers have come to the conclusion that Asha and/or Theon Greyjoy are the best hope for their people and that their uncles’ rigid commitment to tradition will bring about their deaths.

I have no idea if George R. R. Martin was aware of the chaoskampf motif when he created the Ironborn. But even if it wasn’t, I’d say it’s a still a fascinating coincidence.

the-king-andthe-lionheart:

asprettyasyourown:

You know, the more I think about it the more I realize the depth of how toxic and detrimental the environment Septa Mordane created was to the girls. I’ve seen it discussed at length when it comes to Arya (as it should be, it plays such an important part in her narrative) but I’ve rarely seen it addressed when it comes to Sansa.

Now obviously, the damages inflicted were nowhere close to Arya’s. Sansa was the golden girl, the scale every girl in Winterfell measured themselves in terms of being a perfect young Lady. On the other hand, Mordane thought that an appropriate response to Arya’s failure to meet that ideal was to shatter her self-esteem to the point where she didn’t think her own family wouldn’t want her because her hair wasn’t properly combed. I don’t think it’s a stretch to say Sansa got the better hand there.

But I do think Mordane’s teachings impacted Sansa in a bad way too. I find her insistence on having the girls conform to the (southron) ideal of ladyship almost obsessive. Sansa is partially to “blame” for that (I know, poor wording but I couldn’t think of another way to say it), since her meeting all the expectations likely pushed Mordane to always ask for more - to the point where even the royal princess didn’t live up to her.

And don’t get me wrong, Sansa excels at these traditional activities mainly because she enjoys them. She likes singing and embroidery and being courteous. She likes being the “good girl” and, let’s be honest, the benefits that come along with it. But on the other hand, she is not given any space to grow outside of that particular image. Septa Mordane is constantly riding her to behave a certain way, and scolding her everytime she says or does something that could be considered slightly out of place from what a lady is supposed to do.

“I’ve never seen an aurochs,” Sansa said, feeding a piece of bacon to Lady under the table. The direwolf took it from her hand, as delicate as a queen.

Septa Mordane sniffed in disapproval. “A noble lady does not feed dogs at her table,” she said, breaking off another piece of comb and letting the honey drip down onto her bread.

“She’s not a dog, she’s a direwolf,” Sansa pointed out as Lady licked her fingers with a rough tongue. “Anyway, Father said we could keep them with us if we want.”

The septa was not appeased. “You’re a good girl, Sansa, but I do vow, when it comes to that creature you’re as willful as your sister Arya.” She scowled.“

-  [AGOT, Sansa I]

I mean, they’re eating breakfast in the middle of the road. They’re not exactly in a banquet with the royal family. It’s not really a situation where people would think less of Sansa (or Septa Mordane…) for feeding her wolf. They most likely don’t even notice them. Moreover, what I find interesting is that when Sansa pushes back (= don’t comply blindly), Mordane immediately labels her as “willful” and not a good girl anymore - something Sansa based her whole identity around.

There is such an insistence from Mordane to appear like a perfect lady… but not on much else. I don’t recall any instance where she pushed Sansa to cultivate skills outside of the realm of appearances. Sansa says “she could read and write better than any of her brothers”, but she’s never praised on that. Or for remembering a shitload of sigils and their corresponding houses. She’s never being pushed to work on skills she seems to be lacking in (namely maths and managing a household, even though they’re crucial tools for a lady). In short, there’s not much emphasis on developing the mind over the body.

An obvious example, in my opinion, is this one.

Her father’s decision still bewildered her. When the Knight of Flowers had spoken up, she’d been sure she was about to see one of Old Nan’s stories come to life. Ser Gregor was the monster and Ser Loras the true hero who would slay him. He even looked a true hero, so slim and beautiful, with golden roses around his slender waist and his rich brown hair tumbling down into his eyes. And then Father had refused him! It had upset her more than she could tell. She had said as much to Septa Mordane as they descended the stairs from the gallery, but the septa had only told her it was not her place to question her lord father’s decisions. 

- [AGOT, Sansa III]

To be honest she’s not wrong (Sansa doesn’t indeed have enough facts about the situation to make an informed opinion, and also she’s 11), but what bothers me most is there isn’t even an attempt at discussion. She immediately shuts down Sansa’s opinion. I don’t mean they should march in there and demand Loras be sent instead of Beric, but there could at least be talking about it. Sansa is meant to be queen, and I believe it is Septa Mordane’s job to make her, if not politically savvy, at least introduced to politics.

That was when Lord Baelish had said, “Oh, I don’t know, Septa. Some of her lord father’s decisions could do with a bit of questioning. The young lady is as wise as she is lovely.” He made a sweeping bow to Sansa, so deep she was not quite sure if she was being complimented or mocked.
Septa Mordane had been very upset to realize that Lord Baelish had overheard them. “The girl was just talking, my lord,” she’d said. “Foolish chatter. She meant nothing by the comment.”

- [AGOT, Sansa III]

Now it might be a bit of a stretch, but I do believe Mordane is more mad that someone overheard Sansa express her opinion, moreover one that is “unladylike” (aka she doesn’t agree blindly with her father) than any concern she might have of presenting a united Stark front in front of the court. I could be wrong, of course, but since Mordane doesn’t show any sign of being politically conscious, I don’t think I am.

Notice also that her way of diminishing Sansa’s remarks is by going after her intelligence. Sansa is not stupid. She’s able to read people pretty well, and she often makes astute observations. The problem is, she is very quick to cover them up with a layer of illusions when they don’t fit with what she wishes. Joffrey and Cersei kill Lady? But they’re so beautiful and gracious and kind to her afterwards, they’re not the ones to blame, Arya is, nothing would have happened if Arya had done what she was supposed to do, if she had been a good lady. Margaery and the Tyrells might have ulterior motives in befriending her? But they’re so beautiful and gracious and kind to her, they’re nothing like the Lannisters, they just want to help her. Sansa always ends up warping reality into a version she is more comfortable with, not only in AGOT but throughout the other books as well. She refuses to look too deep and face the brutal truth until she is forced to do so - despite often making the correct assumption at first glance.

And while I wouldn’t say her upbringing is sole responsible of the blinders she puts over her thoughts, it does play its part. On one hand because, in my opinion, she tends to doubt her own intelligence (she is very quick to believe she is stupid, despite the words being uttered by Cersei and Joffrey of all people) since it was never emphasized to be important, and thus not a feature she built her identity around. On the other, well, that’s what she was promised right? Do as you’re told and you’ll get what you want. Except it doesn’t work, it never works. And Sansa - despite never actively reflecting on it - is a prime example of that. She did everything right; she did everything that was asked of her, relishing every aspect of it, thriving under it. Because that’s the contract, right? Do everything we say, and you’ll get everything you (are supposed to) want. And it works for a while. She gets the admiration of her peers, the praises of the adults, a beautiful prince and the promise of a wonderful life free of pain and hard labor. But, as we saw, that contract is flawed in the first place because the other party is never held accountable to keep its part of the bargain.

Sansa never questions what she’s spoon-fed, because like I said, she prides herself on being a “good girl”. She’s the one who follow the rules to an exceptional degree, and she’s rewarded for it. She even draw strength from it. But she never realizes how intimately constricting these rules are. That a lady’s courtesies is not her armor, but her shackles. She never realizes these rules are meant to keep her down, passive and helpless. Those are rules made by men and for men, designed to keep women relying on them alone, without any means to fare on their own. 

I find particularly telling that Sansa doesn’t have any relationship in her life that isn’t dictated by conventions, that isn’t conditional. She refuses to consider Jon as her brother because he’s bastard-born, and bastards are wicked - it doesn’t matter that she grew up with him, that she knows what kind of guy he is and that every one of her siblings think of him as their true brother. Arya can’t conform to the system, therefore she doesn’t have a place in Sansa’s world, she isn’t fit to be her sister, she isn’t worthy of care and attention. (And yet, a few chapters later, she dreams of having a sister eerily similar to the person Arya would have been had she had the proper support system.) Even her best friend Jeyne Poole, her closest companion, a girl with whom she grew up and shared everything, isn’t exempted of Sansa’s classism. Sansa has some very unkind words towards her supposed best friend. She may not say them aloud, but she thinks them nonetheless.

Jeyne covered her eyes whenever a man fell, like a frightened little girl, but Sansa was made of sterner stuff. A great lady knew how to behave at tournaments. 

- [AGOT, Sansa II]

Of course, Jeyne had been in love with Lord Beric ever since she had first glimpsed him in the lists. Sansa thought she was being silly; Jeyne was only a steward’s daughter, after all, and no matter how much she mooned after him, Lord Beric would never look at someone so far beneath him, even if she hadn’t been half his age. 

It would have been unkind to say so, however, so Sansa took a sip of milk and changed the subject.

- [AGOT, Sansa III]

(Notice that it is not the thinking part she finds unladylike, but the saying part; meaning a lady is supposed to always be conscious of that class barrier, to uphold it even with her closest friends. The only thing stopping her is knowing it would hurt Jeyne’s feelings, though whether it stems from genuine kindness or superficial (”ladylike”) kindness is unclear.)

Jeyne Poole had been confined with her, but Jeyne was useless. Her face was puffy from all her crying, and she could not seem to stop sobbing about her father.

“I’m certain your father is well,” Sansa told her when she had finally gotten the dress buttoned right. “I’ll ask the queen to let you see him.” She thought that kindness might lift Jeyne’s spirits, but the other girl just looked at her with red, swollen eyes and began to cry all the harder. She was such a child.

- [AGOT, Sansa IV]

To me, this ever-present consciousness of status and class means she’s never unconditional with others, she’s never free, she’s never real. She constantly thinks about how to act, what is appropriate (allowed) to say, be it with strangers or with her own family and friends. 

And that intense focus on appearances, on conforming to the statu quo is at the core of her narrative. This is a trap she keeps falling in, way after the first book. Sansa constantly rewrites herself to fit into what’s expected of her, hoping to be handed her share of the bargain - even when she knows it’s been drawn for other people’s benefit. This is what have been ingrained in her brain since the moment she was born, and I really hope that one of the key realization of her journey will be to realize how fucked up that ideology is.

From Sansa’s very first chapter I sussed her out.  Sansa may not know it yet, or acknowledge it yet, but she does feel restricted by the patriarchy.  Her wanting to see Arya punished for picking flowers for Ned, is something a very frustrated and envious person would want.  Yeah, Sansa has her classism hang-ups as well when it comes to Arya, but this is just something MORE to me.  I think while Sansa enjoys typically highborn feminine skills and excels at them, she was made to feel that she had to be restrained and polished and ladylike at all times.  Sansa who has been a “lady at three” must feel stifled at times, and she probably doesn’t even understand why.  But every time I reread her first chapter all I see is Sansa being angry that Ned is letting Arya be a child.  And the sad thing is, I don’t even think this is favoritism on Ned’s part.  I think he’d have behaved the same with Sansa.  But because Septa Mordane and Catelyn shaped Sansa into that highborn ideal really early on, Sansa doesn’t even think she’s allowed to enjoy herself like Arya enjoys herself.  And it’s honestly sad because we’ve seen lady’s playing and do enjoyable activities with nobody punishing them for it.  However, I do see her becoming a tad less restrained as Alayne.  For instance it was refreshing to see her racing Myranda (even though it was a trick to make Alayne look discheveled) in Alayne I TWOW. :)

orangedodge:

eyes-painted-with-kohl:

“It seems like it should make sense for them to, for Dany to see the truth of her family’s reign beneath the careful lies and imagery that Aegon is clothed in, and to also confront the bloody legacy of Valyiria, personified in the Greyjoy Brothers.”@orangedodge

I did not know if I should reblog on your post or write my own because I think I’m going a bit off-topic from the original post, but i have problems with this statement. Not because it is baseless but because it has a base and the problem of that base is a double standard between

a) slavery/feudalism as oppressive systems that made individuals unequal by law. If dehumanizing Slavers is a point, why humanize feudal lords? And still Slavers have no PoV while feudal lords and their children hold 90% of them. This evolves in the biggest overall problem that Asoiaf has for me, a lack of conexion between structure and message. It condemns feudalism as a system but shows it mostly through the privileged by the system, and villanizes characters that successfully thrive on it (Little Finger) against the rules set by it. It condemns racism but mostly through white PoV, in a story centered around a white culture, while what he thinks are Mediterranean inspired people are identified as exoticized PoC (with good reasons) by most of the Fandom, a much more developement of White Savages compared to “brown” savages, etc.

b) House Targaryen/other cool feudal houses, specially First Men houses like the Starks. Why has everyone noticed that facing the bad of House Targaryen ruling is a theme, but facing the bad of House Stark (or Blackwood, or Dayne) is not a common discussion? Is because in general Stark PoV generate less political discussion? And why is that? Because he still can do this with Bran but there are not as half as clues as with Daenerys there, or people hasn’t stopped to look, either because Bran is less interesting or because this double standard between different houses is clouding that perception? Because we don’t really have a bad Stark ruler in Canon that actually peaks the attention on it?

This unbalances enormously the gray areas on the political topics he addresses. Which is a pity because a dressing those topics is the thing that makes the whole series special on his own, in my opinion, a very biased one because systems of social oppression would have been my speciality if I have prosecuted a PhD.

And yeah, I analysed this saga as the unfinished work it is, and that will be for a long time if not forever.

Thank you for your thoughts, and for giving me the opportunity to clarify.

I don’t disagree about the double standards Daenerys is held to, they exist plainly within both the fandom and the in-universe world of asoiaf. Yes, she shouldn’t be held uniquely responsible for the crimes of her ancestors, especially when the Starks, Lanisters, Greyjoys, and Martells have many of the same atrocities in their histories that the Targaryens do, but Daenerys remains the only character who is placed in a position where she has the chance to confront the negative aspects of her family legacy and work past them. She’s the character who is dismantling a slave system that her people maintained for thousands of years. She’s the one character whose story has involved working in opposition to systemic violence and injustice. She’s one of only two rulers who agonizes over what it means to rule well, if such a thing is possible. The other rulers tend to be either oblivious to how they’ve unfairly benefited from the exploitation of others, or just don’t care, in other cases.

In short, we devote this extra focus on injustice and responsibility to Daenerys herself and to House Targaryen, because they’re the ones who that focus has been given to by the author, while the Starks and the Lannisters rarely consider such things, or in the case of houses like the Greyjoys would be unwilling to in any case. There are fandom biases driving that focus as well, but I think it’s largely just attributable to our attention being drawn where Martin has invited it.

Should Martin not also begin to have other his other POV characters begin to interrogate themselves over how they’ve wielded political power in a feudal system, and benefited from the crimes of their ancestors? Yes, of course, but I don’t foresee him actually doing that, beyond what he’s already done with Stannis via Davos’ chapters. So when Dany is singled out (as I single her out), I believe it is because confronting the past is a structural part of her journey alone, both because of the unique placement of her character (as the last of the Valyrian dragonlords, and as the leader of a Dothraki khalassar, and as the leader of a Ghiscari city-state), and because she’s been the sole vehicle for the author’s exploration of his own sense of collective guilt.

I agree with both here. Yes, the reason these discussions tend to center on Dany has a lot to do with the fact that the character herself and her narrative end up questioning these injustices and legacy. However, I still think it’s a very valid criticism of ASOIAF, because the narrative does seem to have a double standard, and I don’t think Martin should do this. I mean, if fandom speculation is correct, Dany will end up accidentally burning King’s Landing. And the reason for this is that “she has to confront her family’s legacy”. And in the end the narrative will punish Dany for this, and she’ll have to die to “redeem” herself. And this is a very unfair narrative. Why aren’t other characters forced to confront their ancestors’ legacy? Why doesn’t the narrative punish them for their ancestors’ legacy in the same way that the narrative will punish Dany, by having her do something horrible and then kill her off? Why is Daenerys that will be punished by the narrative, when her character is one of the only characters that actually questions the injustices in the society, while characters that never questioned these injustices or the costs of war will not be punished by the narrative and get to live and rule in the end?

twelvemonkeyswere:

littledeconstruction:

seethemflying:

wirettewirette:

tall-wolf-of-tarth:

greenmtwoman:

dreams-oath-bear:

Really want to know fandom’s opinion on Lord Selwyn Tarth. I am rather curious about his certain reactions related to Brienne. 

Hear me out:

Has he abandoned Brienne, or distanced himself from her?

300 dragons? He offered 300 gold dragons to a group of people known for their savagery. Very well aware that horrible things can happen to her. He is a lord of an island and his only child is stuck, that’s a paltry amount. We know 40000 dragons are offered for tourney winners. We know that Tarth is known for its marble mines. 

Fine, it may be a fair ransom, as Jaime mentions. Why didn’t he send help in any way? He is a lord so he must have sworn swords, knights of his own, a small army, navy? Yes, Harrenhal is far away from Tarth, still when she was rescued from the bear pit was he aware where Brienne is headed? From Harrenhal to Kings Landing, to the time Brienne was in Kings Landing as a prisoner, where were Tarth’s Knights to protect Evenstar’s only child and future Evenstar? Tarth is much closer to Kings Landing, if I am not wrong its roughly three days away by sea.

There is not even a single mention of Lord Selwyn reaching out or even checking on Brienne. A raven, a rider?

Emotionally unavailable?

He may be a good father by westrosi standards as he allowed Brienne to learn the skills she wanted to n all that but in her entire AFFC journey, she never recalls a fond memory with her father. Her ONLY parent. 

Something is missing. Brienne obviously loves and adores him and considers him noble and good. But wouldn’t a parent be concerned for his child in war torn westros.

Thoughts?

I’ve always wondered the same thing. Jaime thinks that 300 dragons is “a fair ransom for a knight,” but for Selwyn’s only child and heir? Even if Tarth is poor, wouldn’t a loving father promise almost anything?

Brienne thinks that her father deserves a proper daughter or son, rather than Brienne, who is unfit to be either. Where did she get that sense of being inadequate? From the larger culture, of course, but specifically from her septa. The septa who Selwyn never noticed was abusive?

And what about his string of mistresses, appearing and disappearing year after year? What effect did that have on the heart and mind of a growing girl?

He did allow her to train at arms, and to join Renly, but was that support for her, or indifference?

My biggest pet peeve with Selwyn is that he should have done so much more for Brienne but instead, he brought mistresses home and played a bachelor. First thing he should have done after his wife and Gal died was to remarry. By remarrying he could have gotten a new heir, so Brienne wouldn’t have pressure to marry well. Secondly, with marrying a lady from another noble house, she would be a friend/ally to Brienne. Also Selwyn’s new wife could bring her male/female relatives to visit Tarth, who in turn could be friends/possible matches for Brienne.

If Selwyn really didn’t want to remarry he could bring in a noble elderly lady (maybe a widow), either his own relative or his late wife’s relative who could act as a guardian for Brienne. That woman could host other noble ladies in the castle. Also she would weed out abusive servants like Roelle.

Or Selwyn could send Brienne to the mainland to visit or live with some other noble lady (like Selyse Baratheon) where she could meet other people or potential husbands.

Or Selwyn could ask his bannermen to send their daughters to Evenfall where they could be friends for Brienne.

But Selwyn did none of that. Instead, he hosted his mistresses in the house, which means that no noble family would send their daughters to visit Evenfall. There are no respectable noble ladies in Evenfall, so no one would chaperone the visitors, and they could end up taken advantage of. Hell, given that Selwyn is a known womaniser, any mother would be worried that their girls would end up sitting in Selwyn’s lap.

By bringing mistresses into the house instead of noble ladies, Selwyn is pretty much denying Brienne a company of her peers, which explains why Brienne is so damn lonely.

She was basically a princess in a tower while growing up!! She was isolated from other noble girls because her father was a horny bastard.

OK, I don’t know how much of this all is GRRM being oblivious about networks that noble women had (Lady Cat has no friends either, she should at least have wives of other northern houses as her peers) and how much is GRRM playing coy with Selwyn’s motives.

But Selwyn Tarth did Brienne dirty, so fuck him.

The more I think about it, the less I can make sense about Selwyn.

All of the above is true.

But also, he sent her alone to Storm’s End and wrote Renly Brienne was a very good fighter - which is a quite unusual thing to do, and write, about your daughter when you’re a Westerosi lord. So he seems to trust her a lot? 

And he let her “play at his feet” in Evenfall Hall (ah, this Cortnay Penrose’s speech about baby Brienne is so sweet…), instead of shipping her with her nurse or her septa. 

And they were singers in Evenfal Hall - albeit it’s difficult to see if that was because Brienne loved songs or because Selwyn fancies singers. Her memories about the singers are a bit unsettling to read for me - "I remember a woman … she came from some place across the narrow sea. I could not even say what language she sang in, but her voice was as lovely as she was. She had eyes the color of plums and her waist was so tiny my father could put his hands around it. His hands were almost as big as mine.“ She closed her long, thick fingers, as if to hide them.” (ACOCK, Catelyn VI)

He certainly didn’t give her confidence to sing in public… 

It’s really hard to see if Selwyn’s a clueless loving father, or a total asshole, or, as his Doran, has such a long game in mind he forgot his daughter can’t read his mind and will have her own explanations about things. And it’s even harder to say which part of this is intentional from Martin, and which part is that his writing is inconsistent when it comes to women’s sociability and upbringing.

Catelyn’s a good example. Of course, she had ladies in waiting around her. She told it to Brienne : ”Brienne, I have taken many wellborn ladies into my service over the years, but never one like you. I am no battle commander.“ (ACOK, Catelyn V).

But we never saw this female entourage on page - none of them were here for the King and his family’s visit at the beginning of AGOT… (as well as Cersei’s ladies in waiting, by the way).

So I’m afraid Selwyn will stay an enigma until we have more canon materials. Until then, I deem the guy’s quite fishy, though!

Of course it is not confirmed, but add in the sighting Arya has of someone who may be Selwyn in Braavos it gives a quite complicated picture:

It was almost noon before she saw the man she wanted, a prosperous shipowner she had seen doing business with the old man three time before. Big and bald and burly, he wore a heavy cloak of plush brown velvet trimmed with fur and a brown leather belt ornamented with silver moons and stars. Some mishap had left one leg stiff. He walked slowly, leaning on a cane. (ADWD, The Ugly Little Girl).

On what we’ve got, I don’t think we can make any hard judgements on Selwyn. At most, I think we can just say he was emotionally distant from Brienne, and possibly has his own things going on in the background that Brienne is not privy too (dodgy dealings in Braavos? Definite affairs etc.) I don’t think the narrative encourages us to think about it too deeply, other than notice how Selwyn’s rough contours reflect Tywin (I mean, they even have similar sounding names!) Jaime and Brienne’s lives are parallel in so many ways. Why not their fathers?

this is a big double standard.

if we agree that Brienne should marry for affection, and not be forced into a marriage of convenience for her family’s sake, why would we want anything less for Selwyn? if we think that he has a responsibility to marry a stranger and fuck them often enough to have children, why shouldn’t Brienne do it too?

the facts about Selwyn are:
-Brienne, moral hardass, thinks he’s a good guy
-he gave her decades of sword training & didn’t force her to marry anyone
-he’s proud of her physical abilities and openly praises her for it, even when it comes at great risk to her life
-he allows her to run off to play soldier despite her being his only heir
-heimmediately offered a ransom for her, which was all he could do considering the distance, and it was enough money to impress a Lannister
-he likes to sleep with women and is in no apparent hurry to marry

none of that screams UNREPENTANT ASSHOLE to me. does he do some lowkey problematic stuff? sure! this is ASOIAF! everyone is problematic! but do we actually know of anything bad he’s done? nope

I feel like a problem when reading Selwyn is that we have no clear information about his motivations, only what other people, mainly Brienne (who is still very young and loves him), say about him, and people worry about the purity of his intentions.

I also think we can agree that by Westerosi standards, Selwyn *has* failed Brienne. For example, he stopped trying to marry her - it’s probably very hard to find her a suitor after she beat the old man with a sword - and imo that was probably for the best. We don’t know if he did it because he thought she would be very unhappy or because he had other plans for her or because he thought they could wait until he was older and Tarth was a more imminent prize for a potential suitor. When it comes to the ransom, maybe he hoped they could slowly work their way up to a larger sum instead of appearing desperate offering everything for his only child, but the mummers didn’t take it. It could be a number of things in any of these situations and we would drive ourselves mad trying to speculate the *whys*.

I think what matters about Selwyn as a character is the way he has affected Brienne, noble intentions or not. My personal reading is simply that he lives in that grey area of fathers who might love their children but do not actively act in their favor if it’s too much work they don’t feel like giving. Selwyn’s spirit - Selwyn’s vibe, like the kids say - doesn’t sound unbelievable to me. He seems benign enough in some things - he allowed the girl to receive training with a sword, for example, because she wanted to. He also is in a unique position of power in his household, with no one directly to answer to, and he can do generally as he wishes without worrying too much about the consequences or the way his actions can affect his daughter. Maybe there’s something else going on, we don’t know. I tend to think these are only partial

To compare him with another dad, he reminds me of Mr Bennett a little, from Pride and Prejudice. A father largely loved by his kids, but a father who most definitely failed them on a number of ways given the standards of the time and place. It’s an injustice and a harsh reality for the child, I suppose, but it is what it is and the child can do little to change that. I actually like the grayness of Selwyn’s character as a father, because its spirit feels realistic to me. I don’t think I particularly like Selwyn *himself*, though.

For now that’s where I stand. We have to look at the way his action and inaction have affected Brienne, and work through her feelings about her dad to understand how isolated she’s been, and how she thinks that since she hasn’t been able to *be* a proper lady yet she must try to honor him in whatever way she can, through deeds, mostly. Selwyn to me is more of a shadow so far because Brienne is haunted by that shadow of inadequacy, that fleeting feeling she might have gotten from her dad not because he insulted her like Roelle, but because he didn’t pay attention to her. It’s also a parallel to Jaime, who lived many years acting the orders of an overbearing father who always made sure to let him know he wasn’t enough and the minute he didn’t follow the orders he became “less than.” They both *know* they’re not enough for their fathers but for opposite reasons, because they’re also supposed to reflect each other as narrative foils.

youritalianbookpal:

[Transcription: citation taken from A Feast for Crows by George R. R. Martin. The quote reads: Aurane Waters seemed as bored as Cersei by all this prattle about septons. Seen up close, his hair was more silvery than gold, and his eyes were grey-green where Prince Rhaegar’s had been purple. Even so, the resemblance… She wondered if Waters would shave his beard for her. Though he was ten years her junior, he wanted her; Cersei could see it in the way he looked at her. Men had been looking at her that way since her breasts began to bud. Because I was so beautiful, they said, but Jaime was beautiful as well, and they never looked at him that way. When she was small she would sometimes don her brother’s clothing as a lark. She was always startled by how differently men treated her when they thought that she was Jaime. Even Lord Tywin himself…]

Yes, this is another “I love analyzing Cersei’s relationship with gender way too much” post.

First, though, a special mention to Prince Rhaegar, who must have been hot as hell if Cersei is still thinking about him ages after he died, despite the whole “I’m in love with my twin” thing. Jaime sure knows how to find blonde women who have a crush for dead princes. Anyway. Back to my favorite topic.

Every time I read the “Men had been looking at her that way since her breasts began to bud” I want to cry, because it’s such a terrible and common experience shared by women and afab people. The first time one feels sexualized against their consent is never a good experience. And the “Because I was so beautiful, they said, but Jaime was beautiful as well, and they never looked at him that way” just shows how young Cersei was, and how she didn’t understand why there would be a difference between her and Jaime. They were one and the same, why would they be treated any differently? And yet they were, and “She was always startledby how differently men treated her when they thought that she was Jaime. Even Lord Tywin himself.”.

In all honesty, is it surprising that Cersei wants to be recognized as better than all of the men in her life? If she wants Tywin to be known in history for being her father and not for his deeds?

Basically, this paragraph makes me want to cry, scream, and cheer Cersei from the sidelines, and I don’t know if I like this mix.

youritalianbookpal:

[Transcription: citation taken from A Feast for Crows by George R. R. Martin. The quote reads: My councillors. Cersei had uprooted every rose, and all those beholden to her uncle and her brothers. In their places were men whose loyalty would be to her. She had even given them new styles, borrowed from the Free Cities; the queen would have no “masters” at court beside herself. Orton Merryweather was her justiciar, Gyles Rosby her lord treasurer. Aurane Waters, the dashing young Bastard of Driftmark, would be her grand admiral.]

The “My councillors” honestly breaks my heart a bit all the times I read this.

Cersei just wants power and recognition. Cersei, fundamentally, wants to be a better version of all the men in her life. She wants to be better than Jaime (an easy task now that he can’t use a sword), better than Tywin, and she already believes herself to be far above Robert, Tyrion, and many others.

And these are her councillors. A terrible bunch of idiots, to be sure, but they’re hers and hers alone, she chose them for her reasons, she uses and manipulates them as she pleases, and they do whatever she wants.

And her father, Robert, hell, even her brothers, would have never thought that she was capable of having her councillors, of handling a council, the crown, all by herself. I mean, she doesn’t do these things well, but in this moment, in her head, she does, hence that is her reality. 

Cersei believes to be on her way to show all these stupid men, who thought of her as a lesser being for being a woman, that she is better than them, and this is all I care about.

the-king-andthe-lionheart:

Wanting to participate in battle, but their age, gender, and importance causes them to be forced to the sidelines:

Arya watched from atop her horse, on the crest of the wooded ridge that overlooked the septry, mill, brewhouse, and stables and the desolation of weeds, burnt trees, and mud that surrounded them. The trees were mostly bare now, and the few withered brown leaves that still clung to the branches did little to obstruct her view. Lord Beric had left Beardless Dick and Mudge to guard them. Arya hated being left behind like she was some stupid child, but at least Gendry had been kept back as well.She knew better than to try and argue. This was battle, and in battle you had to obey. - Arya VII ASOS

Dany had wanted to lead the attack herself, but to a man her captains said that would be madness, and her captains never agreed on anything. Instead she remained in the rear, sitting atop her silver in a long shirt of mail. She heard the city fall from half a league away, though, when the defenders’ shouts of defiance changed to cries of fear. Her dragons had roared as one in that moment, filling the night with flame. The slaves are rising, she knew at once. My sewer rats have gnawed off their chains. - Daenerys VI ASOS

In addition to this, them both feeling like children for being left behind in battle:

A stillness settled over her camp when midnight came and went. Dany remained in her pavilion with her maids, while Arstan Whitebeard and Strong Belwas kept the guard.The waiting is the hardest part. To sit in her tent with idle hands while her battle was being fought without her made Dany feel half a child again. - Daenerys IV ASOS

Lord Beric had left Beardless Dick and Mudge to guard them. Arya hated being left behind like she was some stupid child, but at least Gendry had been kept back as well. She knew better than to try and argue. This was battle, and in battle you had to obey. - Arya VII ASOS

vivacissimx:

What has always been true is that the Arya/Lyanna parallels work both ways. It’s extremely meaningful to Lyannato be paralleled with Arya in order to shed light on Lyanna’s inner world, in preparation for the reveal of a long held secret.

How it works is like this: because Arya defends Mycah against Joffrey, we can understand Lyanna’s defense of Howland. Because Arya never once strays from wanting justice for her brutally murdered friend, we can imagine what drove Lyanna to masquerade as the Knight of the Laughing Tree. And because Arya doesn’t think twice about any of this, we can understand Lyanna’s convictions.

Because Arya loves exploring and discovering new plants she’s never seen before, because she brings flowers to Ned out of love, we can understand Lyanna being “fond of flowers” as part of a curious and affectionate nature.

Because Arya is never impressed with Joffrey, we can understand Lyanna’s immediate assessment of Robert. Because her siblings react to news of Arya’s betrothals to unsuitable partners with “Arya won’t like that one bit” & “she never will, not Arya” & “[i]f he tries to lay a hand on her, she’ll fight him,” we can understand the gulf that opened between Lyanna and her family after her betrothal. Because amiable Elmar Frey looked down on Nan the serving girl and Arya resented him for it, we can see Lyanna judging Robert based on how he treats Mya/Mya’s mother.

Because Bran thinks Arya “wasn’t scared to get dirty, and she could run and fight and throw as good as a boy,” because he first assumes Lyanna & Benjen fighting are him & Arya, we can imagine Lyanna & Benjen’s relationship.

Because Arya is wolf-blooded and we see that written out, we can understand Lyanna as well.

That isn’t to say it isn’t meaningful to Arya, having Lyanna scattered through her story. Arya’s complex relationship with mentor figures is a post to itself, but in brief: legacies are passed down by people, to people, who then use them as a starting/turning point. Daenerys Targaryen understands the duality of her family’s legacy through the fragments of Viserys as her brother, king, and abuser; when he dies, she is the last, and she births dragons. Jon Snow is groomed for command in the Night’s Watch just like his uncle and ancestors before him, charged with protecting his homeland in the shadow of an eight thousand year old Stark dynasty. Tyrion is Tywin writ small. The last greenseer waited generations just to haunt Brandon Stark’s dreams.

Arya doesn’t have that. She has a direwolf, she’s a warg, and she has the North in her face. Wolf child, blood child; scattered yet meaningful pieces of a puzzle. By connecting her to Lyanna who came before her, it’s a lineage. It’s no longer an accident. Arya isn’t Lyanna any more than Daenerys is Aegon the Conqueror, or Jon Snow is any of his predecessors, or Tyrion is Tywin, or Bran is Bloodraven, or Edric Dayne is Arthur, or Arianne is Nymeria. These parallels to (pre-series) characters represent a benchmark to be surpassed, whether or not the characters realize it themselves, and in Arya’s case is no less.

Intentional parallels like this ask us: what if you were part of something - maybe even the culmination of something - that’s been brewing for a very long while now? What if who & what you are is so important, so necessary, that time would fold in on itself for you?

theonasha:

was cleaning up my drafts & found this post about gilly i wrote months ago that i chose not to share then; will share now:

Gilly is distressed, in deep depression, Sam wonders why that might be. Maybe the sea is scaring her. Maybe the child is hurting her. Maester Aemon tells us the truth: “Sam,” the old man whispered, “you have two good eyes, and yet you do not see. She is a mother grieving for her child.”  This, of course, is a revelation about Jon. It also makes a claim about Gilly. Gilly, we learn, is in distress because she was forcibly separated from her infant child– every mother would be as distressed; Gilly’s distress is that of a mother. That is certainly true, though I remember thinking then, as I do now, of the many other problems Gilly is facing that remain uncommented on–unthought about–by the men that tell her story. 

Keep reading

goodqueenaly:

I like to imagine in my speculation on TWOW how things might just continue to go sideways for Justin Massey.

Justin’s first order, after leaving Stannis’ camp, will be to “deliver her [i.e. “Lady Arya”, really Jeyne Poole] to Lord Commander Snow on [Justin’s] way to Eastwatch”. Easy enough, Justin probably thinks (especially since he himself has no reason to doubt Jeyne’s purported identity - more on that in a moment), he’ll get a warm reception from the pro-Stannis Lord Commander Snow for having his “sister” returned … but uh oh, I think Justin will hear on the way there that Jon has been murdered by his black brothers and Castle Black is in chaos between the Night’s Watch, free folk, and queen’s men. No use bringing Jeyne-as-Arya to her “brother” if that person is not just dead but the victim of an assassination/de facto coup; the same Night’s Watch members who so recently violently killed Jon probably wouldn’t look too kindly on his “sister” showing up at their doorstep. Oh well, Justin might think, better take Jeyne-as-Arya with me instead and figure out what to do from there.

So Justin might then skip to his second order from Stannis: to collect Stannis’ loan from the Iron Bank in Braavos and hire at least 20,000 sellswords with the money. Easy enough, Justin might think; even if he himself failed to convince Stannis to grant him a title or lands to impress the free companies, he is still prepared to “[g]o to them with both fists full of golden dragons”. But, uh oh - I think Justin is going to fulfill Stannis’ prediction that “[i]n Braavos you may hear that I am dead. It may even be true”. Negotiating payment by the Iron Bank on Stannis’ loan and debt agreement might be a good deal harder with the main signatory dead (and his legal heir being an underage girl thousands of miles away with no knowledge of the agreement). Even if he could convince the Iron Bank that would-be Queen Shireen will make good on her father’s word to pay back the Iron Throne’s debts, would he be able to convince sellsword companies to risk their necks for the sake of an 11-year-old girl, heir to a dead pretender, in faraway Westeros?

But then, perhaps, good news for Justin! (Or what he might believe is good news, at least.) I think that as he’s deciding what he’s going do in Braavos, he’ll run into the real Arya Stark (because there is absolutely no way in my mind that Arya, who has had such a strong theme of personal identity throughout her storyline but especially during her time in Braavos, would not have any opinion on seeing Jeyne Poole, a girl who literally grew up with her, be referred to as “Arya Stark”) Well, now maybe Justin decides to cut his losses and try to return to Winterfell with the real Arya. If Stannis is dead (so he thinks) and it’s a losing proposition to make good on his claim to Westeros, he, Justin, might as well take what he can get - and a restored Kingdom of the North, with the rightful (again, so he thinks) Stark heiress, is not a bad concession prize for a landless knight with no hope of reclaiming his ancestral territories. (Ir’s incredibly creepy and gross to speculate whether Justin would imagine himself as Arya’s future husband, but given Justin’s previous marital ambitions with both Val (as the “wildling princess”) and Asha (as the would-be heiress to the Iron Islands), the thought might be in his mind.)

But, uh oh … what Justin Massey doesn’t know, and can’t know until he shows up, is that he doesn’t have the last best Stark. No, far from it - Winterfell is going to be the center of a factional dispute over which of the suddenly reemerged Stark heirs has the senior claim to the North. Justin Massey might have the real Arya Stark, but now he has to contend with elder sister Sansa and legitimated elder brother Jon and legitimate younger brother Rickon (and maybe even Bran too). As an underage girl, Arya has at best a hotly disputed claim over her siblings (and that’s without Arya herself I think probably being way more interested in reuniting with her family than in trying to fight with them over who gets their butt on the high seat of Winterfell). Plus, even if he could convince the factions that Arya was the superior choice, Justin might find out that the freaking apocalypse is nigh; rather bad timing to claim a castle when otherworldly eldritch slaver ice monsters are knocking at the door.

Justin Massey: perpetual loser.

mylestoyne:

mylestoyne:

house lannister really is one of the most deeply sick families in the series and I think it really needs to be acknowledged when analyzing any of the siblings but especially tyrion & cersei. tywin’s penchant for sexual humiliation and violence as punishment (what he did to his father’s mistress, what he did to tysha and tyrion), the way kevan takes after him with similar methods (cersei’s walk of shame), kevan marrying a girl who was his hostage and was quite possibly a child, kevan reminiscing about and sexualizing pubescent cersei, cersei sexually abusing tyrion as a baby at least once (and I doubt it was the only time), obviously the twins’ toxic codependent incestuous relationship but also the fact that this was probably the first relationship tyrion was exposed to and grew up around….. the cycles of abuse and unhealthy sexuality really permeate the family like rot

yeah this is exactly what I mean! I see people talking about tyrion saying this and being like “that’s fucked up” without looking at the full picture and being like, wow that’s actually 100% in line with what he’s seen from his own family and what has been done to him and damn. that is even more deeply fucked up

elderzosima:

Rhaena Targaryen and Sansa Stark: Parallels and Speculation

In an interview with Entertainment Weekly’s James Hibberd, George R.R. Martin responds as follows when asked whether Fire and Blood would tease what is to come in A Song of Ice and Fire:

Are there any hints here in terms of what’s to come in your Ice and Fire saga?

There are a few that are definitely important, but I’m not going to flag them. Readers will have to find them and puzzle out whether they’re hints or red herrings. (x)

The following essay argues that one of these “hints” is evinced in Rhaena Targaryen, daughter of Daemon Targaryen and Laena Velayron. In particular, several complementary connections between Rhaena Targaryen in Fire and Blood and Sansa Stark in A Song of Ice and Fire provides us with some “hints” concerning Sansa’s endgame.

I. The Wild and Willful Sisters

One pertinent connection between Rhaena and Sansa are their wild and willful sisters. The following section looks at six similarities between Rhaena’s sister, Baela Targaryen, and Sansa’s sister, Arya Stark.

First, Baela and Arya are known for their willful and heterodox behaviour:

“[Baela] is wild, willful, and wanton, as we feared,” (Fire and Blood, 648)

“[Baela] was as wild and willful a young woman as any in the realm” (Fire and Blood, 645)

“[Arya’s] long horsey face got the stubborn look that meant she was going to do something willful.” (AGOT, Sansa I)

“And Arya … he missed her even more than Robb, skinny little thing that she was, all scraped knees and tangled hair and torn clothes, so fierce and willful.” (AGOT, Jon III)

Second, Baela and Arya’s undermine the social constructs used to sustain feudal societies by consorting with small folk:

“Time and time again she would escape her ladies to seek adventure in the streets. She took part in drunken horse races along the Street of the Sisters, engaged in moonlight swims across the Blackwater Rush (whose powerful currents had been known to drown many a strong swimmer), drank with the gold cloaks in their barracks, wagered coin and sometimes clothing in the rat pits of Flea Bottom.” (Fire and Blood, 645)

“Sansa knew all about the sorts of people Arya liked to talk to: squires and grooms and serving girls, old men and naked children, rough-spoken freeriders of uncertain birth. Arya would make friends with anybody. This Mycah was the worst; a butcher’s boy, thirteen and wild, he slept in the meat wagon and smelled of the slaughtering block. Just the sight of him was enough to make Sansa feel sick, but Arya seemed to prefer his company to hers.”(AGOT, Sansa I)

Third, Baela and Arya’s rejection of gender and class restrictions is a source of tension for those who seek to mold them into the feminine ideal:

“Septa Amarys, who had been given charge of her religious and moral instruction, despaired of her, and even Septon Eustace could not seem to curb her wild ways.” (Fire and Blood, 646)

“Idespaired of ever making a lady of [Arya].” (ACOK, Catelyn VII)

“Sansa’s work is as pretty as she is,” Septa Mordane told their lady mother once. “She has such fine, delicate hands.” When Lady Catelyn had asked about Arya, the septa had sniffed. “Arya has the hands of a blacksmith.” (AGOT, Arya I)

In addition to their shared behaviour and values, Baela and Arya are romantically tied to bastards. In Baela’s case, she marries Alyn Velayron, the bastard son of Laenor Velayron* and a fisherwoman, Marila of Hull. Alyn is later legitimized as Lord Velayron and his relationship with Baela is characterized as being “stormy”. In Arya’s case, her relationship with Gendry, the bastard son of an alehouse worker and Robert Baratheon, is rife with romantic undertones*.

Finally, Baela and Arya have strong moon imagery in contrast to their sisters’ sun imagery.

Sansa is your sister. You may be as different as the sun and the moon,but the same blood flows through both your hearts. You need her, as she needs you … and I need both of you, gods help me.“ (AGOT, Arya II)

“Baela’s dragon, the slender pale green Moondancer would soon be large enough to bear the girl upon her back/“ “Baela’s twin had brought a dragon’s egg with her to the Vale … and egg that had proved fertile, bringing forth a pale pink hatchling with black horns and crest, Rhaena named her Morning.” (Fire and Blood, 432 & 593)

Although Ned’s “sun and the moon” quote does not specify which of the Stark sisters is the sun and which is the moon, I speculate that Arya is the moon in reference. For one, Baela’s “moondancer” brings to mind Arya’s expertise in sword dancing. Second, Arya’s story is rife with moon imagery. Linked here (x) is a far better essay than I could write on the importance of the moon in Arya’s story.

In short, Rhaena and Sansa’s first connection is through their sisters. Regarded as wild and willful, Baela and Arya challenge the status quo by undermining inherent gender, social, and class restrictions. In addition, both girls are romantically tied to bastards from noble Houses and have strong moon imagery.

*It is suggested in Fire and Blood that due to Laenor’s preferences for men, Alyn was actually conceived by Marila of Hull and Laenor’s father, Corlys Velayron.

*Arya Stark was initially romantically tied to her bastard half-brother, Jon Snow, as was revealed in the 1993 ASOIAF outline. Jon Snow is theorized to be the bastard son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark.

II. The Dutiful Daughters

It should be acknowledged that there are fewer connections between Rhaena and Sansa than there are between Baela and Arya. This is due to the Rhaena’s minor role in the Dance translating to limited information about her character. Nevertheless, the few mentions of Rhaena strike a compelling comparison to Sansa.

To begin, both Rhaena and Sansa lose their pets soon after bonding with them. Rhaena’s first dragon egg hatches but dies shortly after emerging from the egg. Similarly, Sansa’s dire wolf, Lady, is killed roughly three months after bonding with Sansa.

“Rhaena’s egg had hatched a broken thing that died within hours of emerging from the egg” (Fire and Blood, 432-3)

“Lady was dead” (ASOS, Sansa IV)

Second, in contrast to their willful sisters, Rhaena and Sansa embrace and embody the traditional feminine traits of their milieu:

“Lady Rhaena proved to be as tractable as her sister had been willful.” (Fire and Blood, 649)

“[Sansa] was the good girl, the obedient girl …” (AGOT, Sansa IV)

"Sansa was a lady at three, always so courteousandeager to please.” (ACOK, Catelyn VII)

Relatedly, Rhaena and Sansa enjoy by pomp and spectacle of the court:

“… Rhaena delighted in being the centre of court life” (Fire and Blood, 645)

“She loved King’s Landing; the pageantry of the court, the high lords and ladies in their velvets and silks and gemstones, the great city with all its people.” (AGOT, Sansa III)

“Sansa would shine in the south, Catelyn thought” (AGOT, Catelyn II)

Finally, the Vale of Arryn establishes a pertinent connection between Rhaena and Sansa. During the Dance, Rhaena accompanies her cousin, Prince Joffrey, to the Vale where she spends the remainder of the war as a ward of Lady Arryn. Comparably, Sansa is smuggled from King’s Landing to the Vale where she adopts the identity of Alayne Stone and takes care of her cousin, Robert Arryn*. In short, Rhaena and Sansa share four notable connections: the death of their bonded animals, embodiment and embrace of traditional feminine ideals as it relates to behaviour and activities, and spending their formative years at the Vale.

*Rhaena and Sansa led somewhat different lives at the Vale. Rhaena is said to have “enjoy[ed] a life of comfort and privilege as Lady Jeyne’s ward” whereas Sansa, while enjoying the comfort and privileges of being the alleged daughter of the Lord Protector, is embroiled in problematic political schemes and experiences sexual harassment at the hands of her alleged father.

III. Kind, Gentle, Noble versus Brave, Gentle, Strong

“There are a few [hints] that are definitely important,” says Martin. Given these connections, what does Rhaena’s story “hint” about Sansa’s endgame?

Perhaps Rhaena eventually hatching another dragon, Morning, is meant to hint at Sansa eventually receiving a second dire wolf. Perhaps Rhaena’s role in solving a succession crisis is teasing Sansa’s involvement in solving a potential Arryn or Stark succession crisis? These are all compelling answers, but a third captures my attention: Rhaena’s marriage.

After the Dance, King Aegon the Third’s regents attempt to secure a successor for the young king by marrying off his half-sisters, Baela and Rhaena. However, Baela defies the regents by marrying Alyn Velayron. Incensed, the regents attempt to prevent Baela from being the first to provide the Crown with a suitable successor and thus quickly order Rhaena to marry a man of her choosing.

Assessing her options, Rhaena requests that her potential husband meet the following criteria:

“[I]t would please me if he was not so old he could not give me children, nor so fat that he would crush me when we are abed. So long as he is kind and gentle and noble, I know that I shall love him.” (Fire and Blood, 649)

She chooses to marry a man that she is “especially fond,” of Ser Corwyn Corbray. Rhaena’s decision is considered “far from an ideal choice” for several reasons. In particular, Ser Corwyn is thirty-two years old (sixteen years Rhaena’s elder), a second son, and has two daughters from a previous marriage. Nevertheless, the marriage is accepted not in the least part due to Lord Corbray’s influence as Lord Protector of the Realm.

—

I believe Rhaena’s marriage to Ser Corwyn is meant to “hint” at a future marriage between Sansa and Sandor Clegane. For one, Rhaena’s request that her husband is “kind and gentle and noble” echoes a promise Ned Stark made to Sansa:

When you’re old enough, I will make you a match with a high lord who’s worthy of you, someone brave and gentle and strong. (AGOT, Sansa II)

Although, Sansa characterizes several characters as brave, gentle, and strong, Sandor is the only character that Sansa describes using all three adjectives:

“To thank you, for … for saving me … you were so brave.” (ACOK, Sansa IV)

“The Hound gave her a push, oddlygentle” (ACOK, Sansa II)

“He pushed her toward her wardrobe, almost gently.” (AGOT, Sansa VI)

“The Hound pulled her to her feet, not ungently.” (ACOK, Sansa III)

“Strong hands grasped her by the shoulders,” (AGOT, Sansa I)

“She might have fallen, but a shadow moved suddenly, and strong fingers grabbed her arm and steadied her.” (ACOK, Sansa IV)

The quotes listed above are not the only moments where Sansa describes Sandor as such. Qveenofthorns created a graph illustrating the occasions where Sansa describes a character using those specific adjectives and finds that Sandor dominates the graph (illustrated here).

Not only does Sandor match the Rhaena-esque criteria, he also shares some similarities with Ser Corwyn. Both Sandor and Ser Corwyn are in their thirties, share a similar age gap of sixteen years with their romantic interests, and are second sons. However, there are some notable differences. Ser Corwyn was previously married, a father, and a knight of repute. On the other hand, Sandor lacks all three. Nevertheless, these connections - like the connections between Sansa and Rhaena or Arya and Baela - are not meant to be a consistent one-to-one match, but complementary.

*Ser Corwyn is Rhaena’s first husband. He dies attempting to settle a succession dispute between different Arryn claimants. Rhaena later marries an unnamed Hightower.

weirwoodking:

alliluyevas:

in my prior incarnation as a teenage asoiaf stan i didn’t care about r + l = j at all like i didn’t have any idea of it until i saw it theorized on here and i was like hmmm seems likely but i didn’t really care about it and now i’m like. i still don’t care about like Jon Having Targ Blood and i don’t give a flying fuck about Rhaegar BUT i was literally reading agot shaking like a leaf like oh my god it’s everywhere it’s like laced into every ned chapter this massive secret lurking under the surface in a way that’s sooooo fascinating and that i totally didn’t pick up on when i was fifteen and i think it really adds a lot to NED’S character more than anything tbh.

R+L=J is much more about what Ned did in his past than what Jon will do in his future

#like it’s ned’s secret it’s his burden it’s his promise(via@weirwoodking)

moonlitgleek:

I started this post over two months ago with the hope that it would help me work through my iffy feelings on Fire and Blood, namely how much I dislike the way many of the female characters are written in this book and how it repeats and expands on some unsavory elements of GRRM’s narrative that have been broadly noted in fandom across multiple books. But a closer look only increased my frustration with this book for how it underlined several of Martin’s problematic patterns when it comes to writing women but in a more condensed form this time, perhaps due to the nature of the medium. The history book form of F&B focuses these recurring problems and offers little to offset or challenge them that the authorial issue of casual and uncritical misogynistic writing feels more pervasive. It may be that Martin tried to address at least one aspect that’s been criticized before, but I remain disquieted with how he largely traded one issue for another.

Whatever the case, I think that a writer of Martin’s caliber and with his affinity for interrogating and examining traditional genre tropes can and should do better than this uncritical use of misogynistic writing that he not only leaves to stand unchallenged, but actively leans into. In this depressingly long post, I’ll address some of the problems that jumped out at me while reading. Feel free to add any I may have overlooked.

Weiterlesen

Haha yeah not much going on with me, just thinking about how much meaning and symbolism is placed on the names of horses in ASoIaF and how they represent values or characteristics of their riders that define them at some point in their story, and how the fates of those horses relate to the change of those values. Yeah, Honor and Glory got to me, alright. Anyways, how’s your day?

asongofironandflowers:

TW Rambling. 

In ASOIAF, a rejectionof one’s own nature directly leads to their demise and/or death and acceptionof this nature leads to their escape from that fate. 

• Parallels with Robb

Robb rejects his wolfish nature, even though Greywind ripping someone’s hand earned him the truth and loyalty of his men —>  This puts him in a grave danger —> Death

Daenerys locks her dragons up —> This puts her in a grave danger —> ???

• Parallels with Arya & Jon

Arya: Reconnects with her nature —> ‘'I am a direwolf, and done with the wooden teeth.” —> Manages to escape the Harrenhal —> Survival

Jon: Has a weaker connection with his wolf —> He’s now dead, stuck in Ghost —> He is forced to reconnect with his direwolf —> (Possible) Survival

Dany: Drogon crashes the wedding party —> This forces her to reconnect with her dragon —> (Possible) Survival

stardragonslayer:

rainhadaenerys:

intheairwewilllookmonstrous:

stardragonslayer:

Drogon has oldest sibling energy, but I always think of him as technically the youngest of Dany’s children because I associate the third really loud cracking of the egg as his egg hatching

Oh, and it would fit the order of the Targaryen siblings the dragons are associated with. Rhaegal for Rhaegar as the oldest, Viserion for Viserys the middle child, and Dany being Drogon’s rider as the youngest.

It also is connected with the domino of power. If Rhaegar had lived, he would have been the head of Dany’s family. Then when he died it became Viserys. Then through marriage, as a third, it was Drogo. In the same domino order, her destiny would have been, in turn, to live as the consort of one the three, as well.

Rhaegal is not the oldest, though. Viserion is the oldest, Rhaegal is the middle child, and Drogon is the youngest:

She heard a crack, the sound of shattering stone. The platform of wood and brush and grass began to shift and collapse in upon itself. Bits of burning wood slid down at her, and Dany was showered with ash and cinders. And something else came crashing down, bouncing and rolling, to land at her feet; a chunk of curved rock, pale and veined with gold, broken and smoking. The roaring filled the world, yet dimly through the firefall Dany heard women shriek and children cry out in wonder.

Only death can pay for life.

And there came a second crack, loud and sharp as thunder, and the smoke stirred and whirled around her and the pyre shifted, the logs exploding as the fire touched their secret hearts. She heard the screams of frightened horses, and the voices of the Dothraki raised in shouts of fear and terror, and Ser Jorah calling her name and cursing. No, she wanted to shout to him, no, my good knight, do not fear for me. The fire is mine. I am Daenerys Stormborn, daughter of dragons, bride of dragons, mother of dragons, don’t you see? Don’t you SEE? With a belch of flame and smoke that reached thirty feet into the sky, the pyre collapsed and came down around her. Unafraid, Dany stepped forward into the firestorm, calling to her children.

The third crack was as loud and sharp as the breaking of the world. - Daenerys X AGOT

The first to hatch is Viserion, as we can see by the first crack being the egg that was “pale and veined with gold”. Drogon is probably be the last to hatch, given that Drogon is the one most associated with Lightbringer (he is even named after Drogo, Dany’s Nissa Nissa, and just like Nissa Nissa’s strength is said to have gone into Lightbringer, it could be said that Drogo’s strength went into Drogon), and the description of the third crack (“as loud and sharp as the breaking of the world”) is similar to the description of Nissa Nissa’s cry (“It is said that her cry of anguish and ecstasy left a crack across the face of the moon”). So by elimination, Rhaegal is the middle child.

But what you said really is interesting. Drogon is the youngest, but he is described as the fiercest of Dany’s dragons, the biggest,and the bravest, just like Dany ends up being the most important of the Targaryen siblings and the one who accomplishes the most, despite being the youngest and a girl.

Also, just like Drogon is the youngest sibling with oldest sibling energy, it’s interesting that Viserion is the oldest sibling with youngest sibling energy, as he is the most affectionate and the momma’s boy of the three.

If you believe the theory that Tyrion, Jon, and Dany are the three headed dragon (which I do), and that they’ll ride Viserion, Rhaegal, and Drogon respectively, then their own birth order matches their corresponding dragons as well!