do you ever think about how weird it is that the moral of Frankenstein is kind of less just “graverobbing is weird and creepy” and more “take some fucking responsibility if you’re going to do so”
“if you’re going to create a large corpse son, you better be ready to love him”
“We can’t play God and then wash our hands of the results.”
Mythbusters ended too soon. I feel like The Cask Of Amontillado is exactly the myth they would have tested.
Like, figuring out how long it takes the mortar to dry. Finding the maximum amount of time before knocking down a recently built brick wall. Establishing the best place on a recently bricked wall to topple it and escape.
And then, doing all of that while drunk.
Mythbusters, you left us too soon.
actually, they made that episode – I have a copy of it in my basement, wanna see?
Victor refusing to make the Monster a wife because he was worried they’d breed is such a cop out. Like, you’re cobbling together body parts from charnel houses. You can just not give her any ovaries. You can just spay her like a cat. Why are you this dumb Victor. You’re a doctor.
the implication that victor spend weeks giving the monster a working dick is also extremely weird
Something to remember is that Victor didn’t just give the monster a working dick! He wanted his creation to be made of the best parts of men-it’s why the monster is made up of so many different pieces rather than one fresh corpse, why he’s so large, and why Victor is disappointed that he isn’t beautiful.
So, what does this mean? It means that Victor looked at the dicks of various corpses, testing not only to make sure they work, but also to find what he considered to be the best corpse dick. Does this mean the monster was extremely hung? Or did Victor simply pick the dick that seemed most attractive to him? Did he memorize the appearance of the dicks, or did he line them up to compare?
We’ll never know, because the original story never touches on the subject, and it’s one of the few flaws in Mary Shelley’s work.
I know I started this conversation but I’m so sorry I did
Considering we know who Mary Shelley was spending time around I guarantee this was a CONVERSATION that she actively and adamantly refused to actually include in the text
Well, there is ONE adaptation which includes this very discussion.
So. Today in class we assigned Macbeth roles to students to read. When I asked the class who wants to be Lady Macbeth, a young man raised his hand. I kind of stared at him like “Lady Macbeth,” and he nodded like “I know what I’m about ma’am.” So then the student who ended up as Macbeth raised his hand and said “HE’S THE ONE, HE’S MY WIFE!” So I said “yeah sure why not,” and the entire class period they were blowing kisses to each other and winking at each other, and every now and then Macbeth would say “I’m the luckiest man on Earth” and Lady Macbeth would put a hand to his chest, and be like “BABE!”.
I just stared at them, knowing that they CLEARLY have never read ‘Macbeth’ before, so… all this lovey dovey… I don’t know if I have the heart to tell them the truth.
Update:
Macbeth is absolutely willing to fucking throw down for Lady Macbeth. Has already threatened a wall, a desk, a few students, a textbook that was neither his nor Lady Macbeth’s, and me
Lady Macbeth is enjoying the attention and has begun to use this new connection to his advantage. I’m starting to suspect he’s read ahead in the play.
Macbeth is going to end up living in detention at this rate.
Macbeth has no idea that he is the tragedy of the story. Claims to be the hero of the play, fails to see the irony in this
Macbeth slowly scooted his desk across the classroom to hold hands with Lady Macbeth. He was not subtle.
Macbeth has proposed on several occasions. Lady Macbeth just laughs and says they’re already married.
Macbeth’s girlfriend is in the class with them and is “totally not jealous or anything just thinks this whole fucking play is a waste of time”
Lady Macbeth should probably be a theatre major at some point, he fucking rocked Act V scene I
Other teachers and staff are emailing me about the “lovely lords”. Lady Macbeth now refuses to answer to anything other than Lady Macbeth and is always very upset when people don’t call him by his proper title.
After Hector’s rampage the Greeks end up crammed against their ships and both Agamemnon and Menelaus fail to sleep. One for wounded pride and one for guilt. No need to guess which is which. Menelaus is a good person I think and sees the best in others and it included assuming his brother was going out to war- ha!
Agamemnon does have a point when he says they need tactics to make up any of the ground lost and it includes the call for respect that he makes sure to use to each warrior regarding name of self and family and humbleness when calling them to meet. He even finds time to defend his brother in multiple ways to Nestor which is something nice to see.
Nestor again is responsible for the prodding of the Greeks to action leading to Diomedes and Odysseus going out for a scouting mission. Best part of this moment is Odysseus saying yeah yeah I’m great, now can we move before the sun comes up?
During their time out, the enemy sent spy is an idiot, granting them valuable information and satisfaction leading to the death of the Thracian king and the theft of his horses. Dolon is a worthless ass you blames Hector for his volunteering.
The whole thing ends with Apollo interfering to stop Athena’s meddling from doing any more damage.
This whole thing feels like the moment of squandered moments for the Trojans and proof of fates verdict.
P.S. Agamemnon has smooth feet- proof to me that he’s no warrior. Warriors and soldiers would have calloused feet.
P.P.S. Diomedes calls Nestor a “hard man” which he is. He is one seriously bad and tough dude.
After Zeus inflicts horrible pain on the Greeks “Panic” and “Rout” take them and bring about desperation. Agamemnon actually assists with the calls to the men and acknowledges his madness, blaming “Cronus’ son.” They fear they have lost the war and the balance of fate.
Agamemnon’s folly with Achilles is pointed out and his lack of courage is brought up by multiple people in multiple ways. And he finally admits his part and the value of Achilles. He proposes and full list of offerings and apologies to but says “(l)et him bow down to me? I am the greater king….the greater man.” Humph. He still isn’t there. But the delegation goes to Achilles at his wish.
The group finds Achilles playing the petulant rock star, literally. He is playing to a full audience and wallowing in his pride. He calls them in with a near cat call and is addressed by Odyseus as to the need for him, his responsibilities, and the offer.
Achilles then compares Agamemnon to the Gates of Hell and condemns him. He asks why they are there again- pointing out that he doesn’t believe they are there for a wife since they so easily took his. He says he’s leaving and he is not interested in the offer or Agamemnon’s daughter because he will die there and it isn’t worth his life.
His charioteer begs him to relent, but he will not, warning him that he will hate him if he sides with Agamemnon. Ajax follows berating him and is met with a get out and a fv(k you for Agamemnon.
Needless to say, the “greater man” swears off Achilles leaving the Greeks in the same place they were. Desperate.
P.S. Ew moment in Achilles comment about enjoying “her to the hilt.”
This opens with a family meeting of the gods where Zeus says do what I say or I’ll beat the shit out of you or throw you into hell if you go back down there without my permission. He dares them to screw with him and leaves them in silence, “struck dumb.”
Athena is the first one with balls and even bigger ones, considering her actions, and says what, us? Interfere, we wouldn’t dream of it- and no shit it works because Zeus tells her it’s okay baby- your my favorite. But stay here.
Zeus balances fate of the day and when the Argives fate is low Zeus let loose thunder. The thunder causes all but Diomedes to pull back causing Zeus to aim at him. He wants to keep going but Nestor “is like no… you crazy.” To make matters worse, Hector starts trash talking which is funny since the gods are always saving him. But soldiers are soldiers. And Zeus lays waste and causes the one moment of Agamemnon when he asks the right question ‘Zeus why?’
However this doesn’t go answered and Hera thinks of rebellion. She is specifically hating Hector and rages. Athena overreacts and pouts that Zeus doesn’t love her like he used to. They both go against Zeus’s orders and he sends Iris to forbid them directly. Iris goes so far as to call Athena an “insolent brazen bitch.” Everyone assumes his wife and sister will be a pain in the ass but his daughter knows better and owes loyalty.
When Zeus comes up again he taunts them again and tells Hera to go cry to daddy, which I love, even if he is horrible.
Meanwhile, Hector and the Trojans make use of the wins and drive at them.
So after the touching moment in the city with Andromache we see Hector and Paris sweep back out to the war. He is marked as the “®ampaging Trojan” and by Athena who comes to war. It is then that Apollo really jumps into intercept her. He uses on her the same logic and wisdom that she should know- to let the human men fight it out- later. He reminds her that Troy’s fate is fixed and she tells the “archer of the sky” fine.
The stop in fighting will be Hector versus Ajax in a duel as a means to cease the other men. It has the feel as all duels of these kinds do of a gladiator battle and leads to the onlooking of the two gods as “vultures.”
Prompted by Apollo, Hector submits the challenge, complete with the exchange of bodies, and finds the Greeks hesitating. Menelaus, ashamed, finally stands but is stopped by Agamemnon who knows his brother will lose. Nestor is willing but is flesh is unable due to age and he relays the memories of combat of an old man- instilling and bringing together the Greeks in military comraderie. It brings forward Ajax.
His bravery is questionable at this point to me since it took taunting to get him to participates. Nestor prays for him in fact which I find funny because as the bull moves forward his size scares Hector.
The battle seems one-sided in some ways because Ajax has such harder hits, but Hector seems fast and the battle lasts till night when they called a truce to that duel and exchanged gifts of respect.
After the fight they see the mounds of graves and Hector proposes to give Helen and her money back to the Greeks. Again. He calls the Trojans “outlaws.” But Paris refuses again leaving a moment to bury the dead as the best Hector can do. He again wishes for his brother’s death before this proposing he should have been “drowned” before he grew. He again states he knows the dark fate of Troy.
P.S. Key moment to me is that when the bodies are burned is the fact that the Trojans are not allowed to mourn. This juxtaposed to Poseidon’s selfish mourning about the legacy of the Trojan wall. (Zeus tells him to shut up and knock someone else’s wall down).
Hector’s return for me and for most writers I’ve noticed gives one of the most iconic moments in The Iliad. There was already a respected prince of Troy who could have had Hecuba pray. It needn’t have been Hector to show the normalcy of his mother’s love and affection, but it gives the opportunity to show that he is still enraged with Paris. It is satisfying to see him wish for Paris’ death. And given the first opportunity it is nice to see him REAM Paris. But once again, Paris says yes, he is all those things and more. But he agrees to go with him.
Hector’s moments in Troy are heartbreaking. Andromache, who has lost all of her family to Achilles, come to him to beg and then support him. His response that “sacred Troy must die” and he knows his defense of the city will fail and he wishes to die before she does breaks my heart. Then the son of his heart’s recoil from his helm followed by “one day let them say, "He is a better man than his father!”“ His hope for the future of his son and his embrace of his fate is heroic and devastating. I have no grand idea here. It just hurts.
P.S. Hector calls Athena the queen of plunder….I love that Goddess of War is still a war goddess. She is knowledge but she accumulates all the same horrible attributes.
P.P.S. Hector, unlike the other princes, does not live in the palace. Prince of the people in all aspects.
After the gods leave the field Diomedes continues his rampage through the Trojan ranks. The text lists the slaying of demigods at his hands. The action brings forward the kings of Greece including Menelaus. He almost takes a ransom prisoner until Agamemnon reminds him of his duty to slaughter and pushes his brother and ranks to kill and take no spoils until the Trojans are dead.
Opposing them, Hector and Aeneas bring their own ranks round to combat. But the Prince of Troy, Helenus the seer, tells Hector to return to the city to have the Queen and the ladies of Troy to attempt prayers and offerings to Athena to bring her wrath to an end. Troy has always given offerings but as the past passage attest, Athena brings much death and destruction when in her disfavor.
Once Hector leaves more Trojan heroes step forward to face Diomedes including the grandson of Bellerophon, Hippolochus. Their battle includes an exchange of their armor and sworn friendship. But it is the conversation that passes which includes Hippolochus review of his grandfather’s story that I find important and I wonder if it isn’t why this is in the epic. “But the day soon came when even Bellerophon was hated by all the gods.” The gods always have favorites. In Greece, in Troy, and they all have favorites and invariably in all the instances the gods turn on or turn their face from those they “love.” They are such fickle and hateful creatures.
Sarpedon and Diomedes fight is one of honor and grace in the middle of the war and shows that the Trojans have been part of the history of Greek life to a man. Diomedes’ father had come as had Hercules and others for the horses of Zeus and to show friendship. It is interesting to me that this exchange does show that on occasion Trojan kings had not been as meritous as Priam.
The full entrance of Athena in armor on the seen is a brilliant image which includes Panic, Hate, Defense, Assault and Medusa. In a male dominated society the woman is a better fighter then the man and is more then his equal according to Zeus. Ares dominates blind rage and other stupid acts of violence, but Athena wages war with knowledge and thought. Reason outweighs violence when each explode into war, “she’s the one–his match, a marvel at bringing Ares down in pain.” And it is to this she sets Diomedes to strike at Ares in opposition to what she had directed before. And forces the strike deep.
It is then I see a child of violence merely a child hurt. He whines to Zeus who feels no pity, stating clearly that he hates him (shit thing to say since its his son) refusing to punish Athena’s violations of the norms, but Zeus does see to his healing as the kind of immortal pain suffered by a god the father of gods does not wish to see continue.
Although it sounds like if he felt he could get rid of him he would. Hera plays a part here but this chapter is to me about the rise of Aeneas which leads to his later role and the fight between blind rage and righteous anger and it is in this role that Athena sends Ares home crying and returns home victorious.
The men of the Iliad are regularly warned against fighting gods for one reason or another but it always bothered me that Athena TOLD Diomedes to attack Aphrodite. Regardless of the sides the idea that a god would encourage assault on a god seems to be stupid for your own sake in the long run. Lack of respect of gods is a contagion that spreads… and as time has proven did spread to the abandonment of Athena herself.
A tiny but interesting thing struck me in the middle of these chapter. Diomedes wants the horses of Aeneas, one of the few men on the field born of a primary god, given by Zeus. Here the goddess of love’s son shows his power and courage and it is a joy to behold. While he may falter to Diomedes, who is driven by Athena’s word, he attempts and shows his courage wonderfully.
When he falls (thanks to Athena) the moment of assault by Diomedes occurs on Aphrodite and ensures that he will die, because as Dione states “the man who fights the gods does not live long?”
The gods interfere all the time and have been wounded many times but this brings out multiple gods to the defense of Aeneas (saving him legend says gives birth to the rise of Rome) and Aphrodite. And for a time Ares batters the Greeks back in vengeance. And as Athena pushes the fight Aeneas is set loose again.
This entire chapter is full of the gods’ most pathetic and childish interference. As at so many other points in the epic a god, this time Athena, empowers and emboldens a warrior to slaughter which none can stand against. She picks the famous Diomedes and makes him a bright light of impending death. She tells him to go forth but attack no gods.
Her push and his strength lead to a near death of Idaeus who has to be saved by Hephaestus. Athena immediately goes to Ares and tries to convince him to turn away and leave Diomedes to the attack with her touch still on him. Of course it works because Ares never was the smart one.
After Ares leaves the field Diomedes sets to killing the princes on the Trojan side and while reading it what struck me was what all of these allies say about Troy as a city and a people. The Greeks are there by force of contract, but the allies are there as what feels like real allies. These are peoples with economic and family ties to Troy and it says good things about the Trojans to me. They expanded influence in what feels like a more progressive and positive way. I have no doubt the allies don’t want Troy to fall for their own reasons but still.
During the same rash of violence you see all of the gods lose favorites to the horrors of war. Death after death of ones saved before and beloved by gods on and off the battlefield testifying to the small and lost fact that the gods feel what may be the last of male beauty falter as the city of Troy will to fate. The age of heroes it seems to me fades here and these moments of endless death represent this.
Athena finds a target of menace in Aesepus an ally whose fired shot fails to kill Menelaus due to the quick action of his fellow Argives and the interference again of Athena on the field.
It is this action alone that gives Agamemnon one of his few justifiable moments. The breaking of the truce is a break in sacred war behavior and in doing so he has the right to hate the Trojan action. His belief that they were deceitful I still find irritating since Athena began it, but he is correct in his rage. Of course he can’t help himself from being the jack@$$ he is because most of his rage is the appearance. His concern for his brother’s welfare is all about how it will impact how he looks to his people.
It appears to me that the men of Greece are genuinely worried for the good man Menelaus, but his brother is exactly who Achilles believes him to be. However in righteous anger the Greek army seems to me to be juxtaposed as both movable sheep and unstoppable forces of nature. They move to their goatherd and rush like hurricane. I find the image to be what the word awesome was meant to be. And during this rise of force the shepherds such as Ajax call for men to hold their ground and “No heroics now!” They see the madness and know the end of the game.
In the middle of this Agamemnon takes Odysseus to task and gets Achilles accusations thrown from another mouth of being blustering and mouthy. Interestingly in this moment Agamemnon shows that he has learned and he apologizes. What follows is a frightening image of silent wrath versus Trojan bluster. Clear direction versus opposing voices of allies. The end is the scores of dead on both sides, enough to break your heart.
Excellent, Athena (whom I adore in mythology with the exception of the Iliad) helps end the truce. I can’t stand hypocrisy and the epic roars of divine hypocrisy. So much so that even Zeus has to mock his wife and daughter.
The confrontation between the goddesses of war and hearth and the male Zeus epitomizes some of the key hateful views of women of the time. The way they behave with behind the hand bickering and lack of control show the worst elements of historic ideas of female nastiness. I have to say those things can all be very true. Ask every girl who survived fifth through eighth grade. And as happens often in the Iliad Hera takes it too far with a comment challenging Zeus’s position and is promised vengeance. He acknowledges the fall of Troy, but lets her know that when he wants to destroy the people she loves he will do so with her silence.
I find it interesting that he claims he is ‘giving’ her the victory even though Fate did that. She responds with Iliad’s characteristic bravado and says to raze all her beloved cities, but to allow her work and her status as a God be acknowledged.
The work of the Gods is horrific in their duplicity and damage inflicted as shown when Zeus sends Athena to make sure that the Trojans break the truce first and solidify their downfall but also hurt the integrity that the city had been known for. Yet another thing destroyed in the failure of a single man, Paris, prince of Troy.
The events of the chapter includes an image of Menelaus sending ambassadors to get his wife’s return. These men as well as all the warlords of Greece are known to Helen because they bid for her hand. It is a moment of pure stupidity on the part of Priam and shows a complete lack of awareness. The only thing he gets right is his not blaming Helen for the war but the gods. Their interference is to blame. This whole thing would have ended without Aphrodite’s actions in the beginning and at the fight with Paris and Menelaus. Reminds me yet again why I’ve never been a fan of hers.
So many opportunities to stop the death, but fate demands that it continue. Menelaus should have been given Helen. He wasn’t.
I find it sad that when Helen looks at the warriors of Greece she doesn’t know that the reason she doesn’t see her brothers is that they have died.
Following the gathering the image is of silent Greeks marching towards shouting Trojans. The image is of glorious wars, but is interrupted by the boasting act of Paris. His paper tiger facade fails a soon as he sees Menelaus.
The disappointment and disgust of Hector is palpable. What is interesting to me though is Paris’s response to his brother’s condemnation. His statement is essentially, I am what I am because the gods made me this way. It is not my fault and I understand that you must hate me for it. Later he admits the same to Helen of his nature. His self-awareness is fascinating to me.
Especially given the response of Menelaus who is a good person. He has been ‘injured’ and will move for peace.
Juxtapose the men with Helen’s self-awareness now that this death and chaos is her fault. I think she was horrified by the old men’s talk of glorifying of a war over her and the beauty of the war. She believes that she would be better off dead. It is obvious that she wants to return to Greece or die but the interference of Aphrodite after Paris is injured shows the survival instinct in a human when threatened.
After reviewing the actions of the Greeks Homer moves to the goddess Iris rushing to the Trojans and moving them to war. The allies ready for war and you get a full description of the allies of which Aeneas is the first, followed
Odds and ends: there is specific description of Troy. Aeneas is not Trojan, but Dardanian (an ally) and is a prince of that city.
This chapter starts with an intentional lie on the part of Zeus to Agamemnon. The dream sent plays on the king’s existing weaknesses including his pride. To me this is in two ways; that he is destined to win and that Zeus would speak especially to him. It takes a level of arrogance that only Agamemnon has shown up until now to believe these things.
He uses this sense of self-importance and an attempt at reverse psychology to push the Greeks to attack when they do. However Odysseus sees the psychology and a Greek named Thersites sees the arrogance. Thersites calls out the king and demands that they should go home. His message is the Greek version of Cassandra inside the city and he is abused and ignored.
Agamemnon’s push for continuing the war includes “payment in full” for the miseries born by the Greeks during the war in rape. He threatens to kill deserters and says that if they lose it is their own cowardice. He then acknowledges his fault in the fight with Achilles but doesn’t take responsibility. Instead he makes a bid to tell the men that if Achilles fought the war would be over.
Odds and ends: Odysseus is called raider of cities, the ox sacrificed has to be five years old and I’m not sure why, the sacrifice will work but not right away, Ares sons are Greek but he fights for the Trojans.
There are two distinct Ajax and I wonder if these are likely part of the original oral tradition.
Hercules’ sons and grandsons are at Troy which helps line up the timing of the different myths.
The interplay between Hera and Zeus is one of my favorite things. She is dealing with so much jealousy and his response is one of shut up. I’ll tell you when I’ve decided what will happen. “Only estrange yourself from me a little more– and all the worse for you.” He threatens to beat her if she keeps it up.
I find the whole thing funny, not in a modern way, but I do. I always have. In Greek culture I know that Hera was an important but in this presentation she is treated as the model of a hysterical woman. She is juxtaposed with Athena, who while not ‘nice,’ is smart and thoughtful and effective. Yet another reason why even though I dislike Athena’s choices in the Iliad, I still like her and like Hera less.
