If we aren’t careful, children at Pride could wind up exposed to bigotry and thinking that body p*licing and puritan values are compatible with Queer Liberation. ️ ️⚧️
Think of the children!!!
Big time agree with this. Even as someone that identifies as demi and is mostly uncomfortable with raunchiness, I recognize that queer liberation means the liberation of bodily expression and desire exchanges. Highly recommend people learning more about queer history before calling for the policing of bodies.
I agree, but I think there should be some effort to make non sexual areas at pride parades / festivals / etc. Because bodily autonomy and sexual freedom are absolutely important to queer liberation, but children also shouldn’t be exposed to explicit nsfw stuff.
This is going to be a long post because I want to make sure I address as many things as possible, and also my brain isn’t efficient. Here goes:
But then we are back to talking about what the Right wants to talk about. We’re back to conceeding the conversation needs to be about fear mongering in the guise of “being protective”.
Protected from what though?
Like its been some time since I’ve been to a large, in-person- Pride even because of Covid… but as far as I can recall from all the years prior - no one was brandishing dildos and vibrators, or having public genital or oral sex.
What I DO remember, is a lot of people in various elaborate outfits that showed various amounts of skin (but always still somehow more dressed than a strap bikini or a speedo). I remember people standing waving flags, or huddled together on lawns eating vendor food. I remember them kissing or holding hands. I remember dancing and I remember music… pink-washed corporate sponsored floats and free bracelets and beads… I remember and a LOT of things but I don’t recall anything that would have shocked a child of any age.
…unless that child was being raised in a very conservative household.
So I really really really need people to think here: When we agree to “think about the children” what are really agreeing to?
When we say “I agree children shouldn’t be exposed to sexual stuff at pride..” what does that agreement ~do~?
Because for practical purposes what it does is “agree” that there ARE uniquely unsafe and sexual elements of Pride. Something that I don’t think is true
- and no I can’t account for every last Queer person or Pride parade but I don’t think I should HAVE to.
Being queer isn’t inherently any different than NOT being queer. And allo-cis-hets never have to jump through these hoops and disprove these “concerns” on behalf of anyone.
-> Its almost like this is a “problem” entirely manufactured for the Queer community so bigots have a foot in the door to peddle their biases.
Just as an example ((and only an example)) of how this ideology permeats all of us (even queer folk): I see sooooooooooooooooo many “nsfw” posts here on tumblr (and other social media) - and its SELDOM tagged, or put below a Content Notice, or posted to a blog that has warnings about 18+ only…
Even the blog I am reblogging from and currently leaping my thoughts off of, actually has a nice comedic memes about “cocks” exactly below their reblog. Without tags, etc.
And I am NOT saying that not tagging or giving notice for our shit posts is inherently bad. What I am TRYING (and maybe failing) to say is: Why no concern for child safety exposure here in our spaces on the internet, but definitely concern for child safety in our physical spaces?
Because the Right can only object to what it knows about/ “is forced to see”.
If anything its easier to get “exposed to nsfw” stuff on the internet than at a festival. ANY kid can open up the internet from pretty much any device now. But any kid without a license can’t even take themself to an outdoor event. PARENTS and GUARDIANS make that call. And presumably they are making it with wisdom.
And so even *if* some Pride events were like what the Christians feared - I have to ask:
“Why are we talking about what we should be allowed to do at our own events, with own bodies, because of someone else’s ”“"beliefs”“”?“ Seems like the solution in that case would be: ‘don’t bring your kid’.”
And just so I can make sure I’ve addressed every angle - it *is* okay and even vital, that Pride events have mature aspects that talk about sex safety, sexual intimacy, and enjoyment.
We lost nearly a whole generation of Queer future-elders to Aids. We’ve lost potential elders to targeted brutalized murder.
These are OUR events, paid for in blood.
When others show up they should already KNOW what they are attending.
We really can’t afford to keep letting the same old tright excuses arguements play out over and over and over, year after year, letting allo-cis-het society chip away at our culture. Letting respectability politics govern where “the line” is at our own liberation. Let right-wingers slip into our dialogue.
For everyone’s sake we need to shut.it.down. Instead of meeting them in the middle.
There is nothing more to talk about - We are done with the bigots and their maligning thought campaigns.
I think for a community that was immediately able to grasp “female presenting nipple” is an absurdly sexist and arbitrary concept it’s pretty depressing how people seem incapable of understanding that what is seen as “kink” or “sexual” in the human body is 100% socially conditioned, and a kid seeing a gay guy at pride showing the same amount of skin his mother would show at the beach is 0% traumatizing. I mean, if it’s traumatizing to you, an adult, it’s only because you’ve internalized homophobic ideas about how men can dress. An attire that partially exposes a guy’s bottom is not inherently more sexual or “kinky” than a woman doing the same, there’s no innate sexual value to any part of the male body, in the same way there’s nothing traumatizing about “female presenting” toplessness. It’s a meaningless boundary that only makes sense to adults who have been conditioned to think that way. The moral value of how people dress in public is something adults, and only adults, will impose on children.
And since a lot of the people pushing this are biphobic/monosexist, the unfortunate truth is that some people are probably getting strong sex vibes from seeing half naked men and don’t realize these are thoughts from their own brain and not, like, an external force pushed on them by the assless chaps guy. And the thing in the way of that realization is they probably don’t want want to experience the vitriol they’ve directed at other people for being attracted to men, or fear losing their entire social circle.
This is probably not something ethical to say to anyone, in the same way that people shouldn’t tell eggs they are projecting strong trans vibes, but it sure as hell sucks for the rest of us.
I appreciate that there’s been a movement to see queer and kink relationships and subject matter as something that isn’t inherently explicit that needs to be hidden behind closed doors lest you face punishment or ostricization, but like queer and kinky horniness is nothing to be ashamed of.
The increase of queer and kink visibility in sfw spaces is great! But I see a lot of people trying to distance themselves from queer and/or kinky sex and porn in an effort to “not fetishize” and that’s kind of ridiculous. Like I thought this was supposed to be the second wave sexual revolution where we embrace oddities and the sexual experiences that come with not being cishet but apparently you guys want to make sure you don’t step on normie toes by being a queer/kinky person with a libido at all.
This is what always happens when respectability gets involved but like. Very disappointing.
where at all possible imma need the queers to interact w their community offline instead of thinking the internet houses the entirety of us. just…learm some history. watch some documentaries, read some books, hear from some elders. Even connect w the local community online (like over video call) in a way that exposes you to more of the community and culture than just bumblr.co so everyone has a more rounded understanding. the offline queer community is beautiful and the niche discourses over miniscule stuff you see online is not a reflection of how the community is as a whole.
it used to be that if someone thought you were also queer, they’d ask “are you family?” and we need to revive that energy as much as possible. no more interrogating people about their identities, just the solidarity that built our community.
As an ace person who doesn’t think pride should be a g-rated, corporation friendly event, current internet discourse is exhausting.
I remember being a closeted teen and my mother complaining about two women holding hands. She didn’t think it was appropriate in public, where anyone could see. And I was just standing there, wishing so badly I could be one of them.
She also frequently would explain (straight) sex jokes to me at that age if I missed them in movies or tv shows. The message was clear. It wasn’t a judgement on her part about sex. It was a judgement about being noncomforming. And damn that got into my head.
I never got to go to pride as a teen. I wish I had. I wish I had gotten to see people loudly and proudly, strategically not giving a fuck. And yes, I include pda, revealing outfits, kink, and whatever else in that. I wish I had gotten to see people purposefully expressing themselves regardless of the social unacceptability of that expression.
It took me forever to realize that social acceptance through becoming part of the norm isn’t the goal. It took me forever to get the damn respectability politics out of my head. I wish I had had more counterpoints to that when I was younger.
So no. I don’t wish I could have gotten to go to a defanged, sanitized pride as a teen. I wish I had gotten to go to a proper one.
“Social acceptance through becoming part of the norm isn’t the goal”
Fuck assimilation, remember the formula: trans person throws brick at cop, leather daddy stops the cop from chasing them
I’m ace and I am very uncomfortable with s_xuality; however it’s the queer community’s right to be able to express themselves somewhere safe. If you don’t want kids to be exposed to s_xuality at pride; make pride into two events in your local area. One for adult pride; one for family friendly pride. Become active in your city to give folks a place to express their s_xual pride or shut up because queer history is tied to s_xual liberation and trying to erase it is erasing so much of what pride is celebrating; our self expression and the progress towards equality as well as what progress still needs to come. Saying “ no k_nk at pride” without creating a space for it makes you a hypocrite who’s on the side of the folks who passed Florida’s don’t say gay bill because you couldn’t allow non-s_xual and s_xual pride to coexist. We must recognise despite disliking it that it is intertwined with our queer culture and all community members deserve an outlet; not just the family friendly ones.
If you are being harassed for showing k_nk and s_xuality at pride don’t let the censorship win. Argue that if they want to erase you they must provide another event for you to attend or else you’ll continue to express yourself in the only way you can.
