In addition, Sandalphon is blocking the exit. And he and Gabriel are standing at complete 180 degree points with Aziraphale in the centre. This is a thing I have known sadistic interviewers to do: to deliberately sit (or stand) at such angles to the victim/interviewee that they can never have both interviewers in their eyeline at the same time. To make eye contact with one, you have to lose sight of the other. Normally I’ve seen it done with the two interviewers at 90 degrees, so the interviewee has to keep turning their head. This is even more cruel: Aziraphale has to turn his back on whomever is not speaking. It’s a deliberate tactic to make a victim more awkward and wrong-footed, and in this case, even physically vulnerable.
Yep. You’ve articulated what I was trying to get at with ‘’trap’’. You don’t block off the exits like that to have a polite conversation. You do it to threatensomebody.
It’s like they took the mob intimidation bit from the original book and turned it into something far more horrifying and with more weight for his character arc, because this is what gangsters do to scare people. imo Gabriel is fairly well aware of whats going on long before the surveillance photos come into it and he just likes watching Aziraphale squirm with anxiety over how much he knows, because he’s not stupid, he’s a sadistic bully.
And Aziraphale is playing the game so well. He tells himself he trusts them but he absolutely doesn’t. He smiles, he nods, he tells them nothing. He has a quick answer for the jibe about the evil smell. He shows zero reaction to their loud comments about pornography (react, and prove you’re more used to humans than to angels? That you find angels embarrassing now? That you know more about earth than the guy who stationed you there?). He’s covering his ass expertly—he knows how to defend himself. He’s watched angels fall.
Like don’t get me wrong, I like a good clueless boss as much as the next person. But that’s not Gabriel. Michael asks if Gabriel minds Michael following up through back channels and Gabriel plainly says “there are no back channels, Michael” and it’s not because Gabriel thinks there are no back channels, of course there fucking are, he’s been using them too. But how dare Michael bring them up so baldly. How dare Michael betray the ruse, and to his face like that. They’re the good guys, you know.
Select (many) additional comments:
@jacquez45 reply: this is one bit where I wish they’d left in something: in this scene, Crowley has literally snuck out when Gabriel & Sandalphon enter the shop. (In the script book, Aziraphale basically keeps them out of the back room until he sees that Crowley has gotten out, then invites them back.)
the reason I wish they’d left this in is that yes, Aziraphale clearly feels the threat in this scene, but he fucking brazens it out anyway, straight-up lying about the Jeffrey Archer books when he knows full well what Sandalphon is actually smelling — the aired scene implies that it might be Crowley, but the scripted one it’s much clearer, and I like the extra layer of courage that the clarity gives Aziraphale.
@forineffablereasonsreply: #NOT TO MENTION THE VERY THINLY VEILED HOMOPHOBIC THREAT #OF SANDALPHON BEING ASSOCIATED WITH SMITING PEOPLE IN SODOM AND GOMORRAH #SURE WE CAN CHAT BIBLICAL ACCURACY BUT THE CULTURAL MINDSET IS MEANT TO INFORM HERE #IN THE CONTEXT OF AZIRAPHALE’S QUEER NARRATIVE? 100% A HOMOPHOBIC THREAT
@gomensgayreply: and saying “you remember sandalphon?” like sandalphon isn’t one of the four bastards aziraphale has been reporting to regularly for eleven years At Least????
That wasn’t “hey, you remember who this random guy is, right?”
That was “hey, remember what we can do to you if you step out of line.”
Scary shit.
@violetfaustreply: I’ve been convinced that Gabriel is smarter and even more malicious than he pretends since the watch-through when I realized Gabriel knows Adam is the Antichrist BEFORE he gets to the airfield. Even Crowley doesn’t know Adam’s name (”You, boy, Antichrist–what’s your name?”) and Beelz has no idea which of the kids he is until Crowley wordlessly points him out. But Gabe says, “That one. Adam Young.” The only way he can know is if he’s somehow keeping extremely close watch on Az.
Gabriel’s bland “I’m sure there must be some explanation” to those pics of Az and Crowley is not the shock of a being who finds out he’s been betrayed by a trusted employee for at least 400 years. It’s not even the vindication of finding out that an UNtrustworthy employee has in fact been guilty for 400 years. He’s entirely unsurprised and his denial that back channels exist is a tacit approval for Michael to finally bring this out in the open. “Go ahead and do what you want but I didn’t tell you to because I’m the good guy.”
Yeah, Gabriel has been waiting for Az to slip up for six thousand years. So why doesn’t he just use his knowledge of the Arrangement against him? Because LOTS of angels and demons have arrangements. Michael has Ligur; Gabe himself has some unnamed downstairs source. If Gabriel punishes Az and/or Crowley and one of them knows about this, the whole system could come crumbling down. (It’s fine to be a hypocrite as long as nobody knows about it.)
So he’ll just wait for Az to take that one step too far and to Fall, get chucked out of heaven. But that never happens. And it pisses Gabriel off.
Gabriel saying to Aziraphale in the sushi restaurant, “it’s a miracle he hasn’t spotted you yet” about Crowley, when 218 years ago in 1800, Gabriel spied on Crowley and heard him talking very specifically about Aziraphale and his ability to thwart, which I think counts very much as having “spotted” Aziraphale. It’s a deleted scene, but it definitely got far enough to be worth considering.
In that same 1800 scene, when Gabriel and Sandalphon show up at the shop, Aziraphale argues that he needs to stay on Earth because Crowley has “been here as long as I have.” Later, when Gabriel comes to tell Aziraphale that Armageddon is starting, Aziraphale reminds him how long he’s been here, and Gabriel responds, “so has Crowley.” These lines - the whole incidents - seem referential to each other.
Finally, Gabriel asks Aziraphale, “how was the hellhound?” after Warlock’s birthday party. Theoretically, of course, Aziraphale could have informed the angels that he was planning to attend the party…but we don’t see him or hear any reference to him doing it, and in fact Aziraphale didn’t know himself that there was supposed to be a hellhound until the 11th hour. This looks to me like Gabriel knowing more than he lets on (except in strategic moments like this).
All this leads me to believe Heaven knows WAY more than it lets on. I also kind of wonder - if Hell has the same level of knowledge as Heaven, was Crowley chosen as the Antichrist’s deliverer as a punishment, some kind of bizarre torture meant to “test” his “loyalty”? Was Aziraphale’s station on Earth meant to be a punishment that the angels are now unhappy about because he enjoys it?
@whispsofwindreply: I don’t remember where I read it, but I really liked the theory that being on Earth is a punishment for Aziraphale, but a reward for Crowley.
Aziraphale failed in Eden, so being on Earth, basically cut off from most of Heaven, would be a punishment (except he actually loves it, which must frustrate Gabriel to no end).
On the other hand Crowley’s stunt in Eden was a major success, and it would make sense that staying on Earth would be a reward. Hell is clearly miserable. Threatening to take that reward away would give Hell yet another tool to blackmail and control Crowley. I don’t think they would have given him the Antichrist if they didn’t trust his abilities, it was too important of a job to use it as a test or a punishment, anyway.
Also, from what we saw in the show, I wouldn’t be surprised if Heaven knew a lot more than Hell does. Unlike the book, Heaven is very present, and organized in a cult-like manner. Gabriel really reminds me of a cult-leader, friendly and apparently innocuous on the outside while being actually ruthless. Such a group would have the means and the motive to create a very efficient surveillance system, under the guise to protect the sanctity of Heaven.
On the other side, Hell is much more chaotic, ruled through threats and violence. Collaboration is actively discouraged. Fear is encouraged, and I got the impression that powerful demons prefer to terrorize minor demons into obeying instead of actually checking if orders are being carried out (“Do this or I’ll skin you alive” instead of “Do this and I’ll come down later to check you actually did it”). Such an environment isn’t optimal for a good surveillance system, because information will be lost in the chaos, or hidden in fear.
You can also see this difference in the way Heaven and Hell contact Aziraphale and Crowley. Hell constantly talks to Crowley through the radio or the telly, basically a constant reminder of “you are never safe, we are always watching and we will hurt you if you make a mistake”. Except that’s really inefficient, and it allows Crowley to hid things under their nose despite being very scared of his superiors. Correct me if I am wrong, but Hell representatives only interact with Crowley in the flesh when he is called to pick Adam up, and when Hastur and Ligur go to murder him. The demons usually keep their distance, which means the information they get may be distorted.
Heaven on the other hand? The Archangel Fucking Gabriel goes personally, multiple times, to talk with Aziraphale. In the sushi restaurant, at the park, in the bookshop. He gets into Aziraphale’s personal space all the time, and he usually plays it as friendly interactions. In a lot of instances, he isn’t even trying to scare Aziraphale into compliance, he is emotionally abusing him. It’s not “we are always watching so you should be terrified”, it’s more of a “hey buddy, you see how I really care? I am here and you are really disappointing me, why can’t you do this one thing right?”.
Only when he brings Sandalphon the emotional abuse takes a step further into a more threatening territory. Gabriel has a more hands-on approach than his counterpart, and if he asks the same of his underlings he probably gets very precise information.
In short, I think Gabriel knows a lot more than Hell on what Crowley and Aziraphale are up to, and would absolutely love to punish Aziraphale, except he can’t because then he would put his own back-channels into jeopardy. So he turns to petty bullying and cruelty under the facade of the Friendly Boss/Family Member.
@krakensdottirreply: The contrast is fascinating, honestly. “I was reprimanded for performing too many frivolous miracles, got a strongly worded letter from Gabriel” vs. “My lot do not send rude notes” / “Is it my fault they never check up?”
Hell is inefficient. That’s clear from their offices, it’s one of the major traits separating Heaven and Hell. So they might not check up on you often, beyond lazily sending reminders over electronic media. If you are caught not doing your job, the consequences are dreadful - ‘reprimand’ is a mild word for it - but it doesn’t happen often. Your odds of getting busted for any one thing are very low, so if you’re a renegade demon, you might as well live on the edge and take that chance.
Heaven is exactly the opposite. They’re ruthlessly efficient and organized, and you bet they monitor miracles. Aziraphale can’t so much as miracle up a handkerchief to sneeze in without them getting on him about it. That’s why he’s so much more cautious, so hesitant, always so wary of pushing boundaries. His consequences may be, at least on the surface, milder, but he is MUCH more likely to have to face them. And they add up. Beyond the notes, there are warnings, and beyond the warnings there are threats, and beyond the threats… well, Hell got their ideas from somewhere, didn’t they?
@mage-catreply: In short, in Good Omens the conflict between Heaven and Hell is not Good versus Evil, but rather Order verses Chaos, and the work makes a brilliant case about why you don’t want to be at either end of the spectrum.
@whetstonefiresreply: Heaven was deliberately kept absent in the book, when the whole thing was a Cold War analogy where they were Britain-NATO and Hell was the Soviet Union–two organizations that were not really particularly different at a deep level, i.e. you needed real expertise to tell their armies apart, and which tended not to really care about the things that are important to people, and which were quite likely to wind up obliterating life on Earth in a stupid shoving competition.
Hell was semi-present and explicitly awful; Heaven didn’t care about the right things but they cared about doing things the right way, and weren’t deliberately cruel. Just unfeeling. The narrative shared Aziraphale’s disinclination to be really critical.
Heaven is the thing that therefore got the most new building-up and updating to the current political climate, in the miniseries, as it became a central player. Its identity didn’t necessarily change, but what Gaiman was trying to say about it sure did.
Visually, they went with the effect of Heaven as the upper reaches of a skyscraper and Hell as its mouldering horrible basement, but the structural impression is of Heaven as the government and Hell as organized crime.
While the latter is a lot more likely to just come around and fuck you up, and to make sure their employees are scared of their capacity violence on an immediate level, the former is much, much more powerful, their reach is longer and they and know a lot more. Their scary goes a lot further. Good Omens the book had one foot in the nuclear age and one foot in the information age, but it’s been 30 years.
@winterbirbreply: Everyone in the notes is using this as n example of Gabriel and using an intimidation technique, which makes sense from a Watsonian perspective (even though I don’t subscribe to it), but I’d like to bring up an important Doylist (aka writer/producer decision) point:
This actually separates Gabriel from some of the biblical atrocities assigned to him, especially Sodom and Gomorrah, which in biblical mythology had Gabriel do the smiting et cetera.
So from a production standpoint, having Sandalphon in this scene isn’t (Doylistically) to intimidate Aziraphale with Gabriel as the aggressor, but instead to reinforce the image of Gabriel as the “company man” while Sandalphon is the one who actually enjoys being cruel.
I’d like to reference the 2006 US paperback edition, where after Crowley describes most demons akin to tax inspectors, he goes on to say
“…If it came to that, most angels weren’t paragons of virtue; Crowley had met one or two who, when it came to righteously smiting the ungodly, smote a good deal harder than strictly necessary. On the whole, everyone had a job to do, and just did it.
“And on the other hand, you got people like Ligur and Hastur, who took such a dark delight in unpleasantness you might have even mistaken them for human.” (p. 253 para. 1-2)
Gabriel and Sandalphon pretty neatly exemplify the difference between these two attitudes. Especially when you consider that the producers did not have to change who smote Sodom and Gomorrah, Sandalphon’s purpose is to be that unnamed angel that takes way too much joy in smiting (see his face in the 2nd and 4th panels), which serves as a foil for Gabriel who represents the prevailing attitude of “just has a job to do,” like the tax inspector.
Tl;dr: This wasn’t done to make Gabriel maliciously evil, it was a production choice where they included both Gabriel and Sandalphon in the same scene so that the audience would a. See an angel described in the book as “[smiting] a good deal harder than strictly necessary” and b. Have it be made clear that contrary to what biblical mythology might suggest, this angel is not Gabriel.
@morelifeangelreply: I think it goes even beyond that. I think Gabriel certainly had a sense that Aziraphale had gotten (from his point of view) too comfortable with the humans, but beyond that, I get the impression that he likes intimidating Aziraphale simply for the fun of it. While Sandalphon seems like a petty thug, he’s at least obvious in what he is.
Gabriel is more like the sort of person who can do horrible things at his job and actively enjoy it, and then go around to enjoy a nice meal with his wife and children. The sort people say, “He could never do something like that, he’s such a good guy!”
After all, he’s on God’s side, so anything he does is clearly right, isn’t it?
@fuckyeahisawthatreply: There’s a lot of great takes on this scene in the reblogs already, but yeah… Gabriel may be oblivious about many human things (not because he’s dumb but because he just doesn’t care) but he’s not stupid.
As for whether he has any idea what’s going on between Aziraphale and Crowley…personally, I don’t think he has the imagination for that. But he’s a bully, so making people uncomfortable is fun, and Aziraphale’s a soft target cause clearly he’s seen as The Weird One among angels.
Right after this scene, there’s a parallel scene with Crowley, where Hastur and Ligur talk to him through the TV. The thing about both these scenes is that Aziraphale and Crowley’s respective higher-ups and lower-downs don’t really deliver any new information to them. In both cases, the sole purpose of these “HEY just checking in!!” visits is intimidation. It’s to remind them, Shit’s about to get real on Earth and we’re watching you. Don’t fuck this up.
Of course, we the audience know that they have already, most definitely, fucked this up. And the characters, in the scenes immediately preceding this at the end of episode 1, have just confirmed for themselves that yes, they have indeed fucked this up. And here come their bosses to make sure they haven’t forgotten exactly what the stakes are. As usual, Heaven and Hell are doing the exact same thing; Heaven’s just doing it with a smile on their faces.
@not-a-fucking-pogo-stickreply: Also with the turning people into salt bit. It’s both the more clear homophobic threat and a reference to the death of the only person who looked back towards those condemned, Lot’s wife, who was turned into a pillar of salt. Definitely calls to mind the close association of Aziraphale to one of the damned ie Crowley, who he could be considered to have looked back towards after the fall by not dismissing him as the other angels seem to have done the other demons.
@rocket-poolreply: Yes to all this, except maybe Gabriel knowing what was up before Michael pulls out the intelligence network. He makes a point of calling him Azira-FAIL (whereas Crowley calls him Azira-FELL, something Gaiman has confirmed was done purposefully). I think he’s just a bully, going straight back to Aziraphale “failing” to prevent the temptation of Eve.
Of course, if Michael suspected - and they are very obviously the intelligence officer, with the backchannels - they could have been stoking Gabriel’s dislike. That would lead to this more… Careful treatment. Especially if you hold to Crowley only just leaving, Michael might have been trying to catch Aziraphale in the act…
@loptsvinr reply: Pretty sure dealing with angels is why Aziraphale is so good at lying. The angels are a very organised/lawful gang, whereas the demons are more of a chaotic evil mess. The demons couldn’t even make sure the Baby Switch Plan would be executed perfectly, whereas if the angels were given that task they would constantly be watching over everything.
@livebloggingmydescentintomadness reply: i feel like it also really deserves pointing out that Gabriel very specifically brought the angel who carried out the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah to intimidate Aziraphale, The Queer Angel.
now, in actuality, the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah was not about homosexuality (Ezekiel 16:49–50: “Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me.“) but it’s pretty damn ingrained in the public consciousness that it was “a gay thing” to the point where anal sex is called sodomy.
it’s too deliberately mentioned to be an accident. Gabriel brought the angel who (we all have been led to believe) slaughtered queers to intimidate Aziraphale. that’s why Aziraphale looks so uncomfortable.
@ineffabilumreply: Ugh, this makes my heart hurt. How awful to be threatened by the good guys, to be trapped in a room and think, well, it’s a good thing I didn’t Fall. It’s no wonder Aziraphale is always telling Crowley, “Yes, but you’re a demon.” If this is what Heaven’s like, what kindness could he possibly expect from Hell?
#of course he does trust crowley #but every once in a while that defense mechanism kicks back in: #don’t laugh until they laugh don’t let your guard down don’t show your hand first #locate the exits be polite feign ignorance smile but not like that not too wide #it’s hard to let someone in when you’re waiting for the other shoe to fall
@thesourthernpansyreply: And to go on from that point, it so very clear that Aziraphale doesn’t agree with Sandalphon’s methods, remembering him and slightly changing key in his voice to ‘I dont like what you do, but technically we’re all doing it for the same thing, so I’ll put up with you cos my boss is right there’. And that’s it!
@falloutboyrocksmysocksreply: Oh I like this! And I’m loving the fact that there is still so much of this show left to talk about like this and analyse!
For me the way that Sandalphon was positioned at Aziraphale’s back, while Gabriel positioned himself in front of Aziraphale, made me think. In the Bible during the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, Lot, who the 2 angels that were sent as emissaries to visit, and lodged and ate with, and Lot’s wife, were told to flee the city after God commanded it to be destroyed due to the sins committed there.
The 2 angels told Lot, Lot’s wife and a few others to leave and commanded them “look not behind thee”, to not look back at the destruction, but Lot’s wife did and she was turned to a pillar of salt.
Remembering that, I couldn’t help thinking of why Gabriel brought Sandalphon, but when he mentioned Sodom and Gomorrah, and that Sandalphon was partly responsible, it made me think even more about how he was positioned in regards to Aziraphale, and the decision made to position them that way.
It made Aziraphale have to look back at Sandalphon to talk to him.
Maybe I’m reading too much into that, but seeing as this is a show that always has a reason for literally everything that happens in it, I thought it was very interesting.
@katy-133reply: Can we talk about how in the book, Crowley went to Gomorrah?
I’m just picturing Crowley and Aziraphale separately visiting the place at some point, quite enjoying the food, not knowing the other was there. And then both of them leaving just before Sandalphon arrived, saw what was happening, and decided that it had to go.
@aura218fandomnetreply: it’s a threat to crowley too. we know what you’ve been up to, we know with whom, we know you know we know, and if you play along, we don’t have to mention this. as long as you behave, we can keep up this shared fake ignorance of your greatest sin and everything is the status quo for a little bit longer. but WE are in control of how long that status quo lasts and we can take that feeling of safety away from you and from your lover.
@220-221b-whateverittakesreply: Can we also talk about the choice of Sandalphon as the heavy in particular? We know Az is super gay coded, and his narrative is a pretty blatant coming out story. But Sandalphon, of all the other angels, shares that coding. And how does Az know him? Sodom and Freaking Gomorrah. The biblical story most often used to persecute the Gays ever since King James decided to put his spin on the Vulgate. To me it reads as a threat like, “We know what you are, and either you turn against it like Sandalphon, or Sandalphon turns your gay ass into salt.” Sandalphon strikes me as the perfect archetype of the ex-gay/closeted-gay that works out their shit by persecuting their own. If you told me he was in charge of Heaven’s version of Exodus International for naughty angels needing reeducation to avoid Falling, it would completely track.
@ffxplayerreply: In the interview for the TV Companion(which is amazing, you should read it if you love Good Omens, I borrowed my copy from library)the actor who plays Gabriel(someone help me out here I’m too lazy to google right now)said he was going for American CEO, same kind of power play. And it definitely comes through in this scene. Intimidation through mind games is totally Gabriel’s scene. Like I don’t for a second think he’s stupid. I wouldn’t love to loathe him if he was stupid. He’s very very clever at what he does, and has zero fucks to give about whether this might make him evil. His sense of right and wrong is his own belief in what HE thinks is right. Scary concept.
@eretriaelessedilsreply: It seems others have beaten me to making this point but I saw this on ig first and wanted to contribute- the traditional interpretation for the reason the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed was widespread homosexual activities of the inhabitants, and if Sandalphon was the one who killed nearly all the inhabitants of two whole cities for being gay it seems like a very deliberate choice for Gabriel to bring him. Especially alongside other angels seeming to threaten aziraphale in terms of homosexuality with Uriel goading Aziraphale with “your boyfriend with the dark glasses”, and Uriel being the angel of chasity could indicate another threat had the relationship she implied between Crowley and Aziraphale been sexual- and then Uriel being the one to most strongly threaten him physically (at least before he was sentenced to death) in pushing him against the wall does seem imply further violence. Overall I cant help but think there was somewhat of an implication that Heaven thought the relationship between Aziraphale and Crowley did verge into romantic and were prepared to threaten and punish Aziraphale for it if he stepped out of line.
“It’s a miracle he’s never noticed you.” Gabriel’s not an idiot, he knows there’s no way Crowley doesn’t know about Aziraphale. Aziraphale is hiding something from him, but there’s no proof.
The pause there, examining Aziraphales reaction.
“But that’s what we do.” A reminder, you’re an angel, one of mine, don’t forget what team you belong to.
A threat, all of it.
@grrlcookeryreply: The demons in GO? They’re evil, but they do damage like a snake or a cat would. Theyre following their nature with no shame or apology. The angels? They’re terrifying. They’re pretending to hold the moral high ground. They’re behaving as though they have a right to choose their actions, whereas the demons simply act. I’d rather meet a GO demon than an angel, any day.
Actually, watching folks continue to insist that any queer relationship that isn’t explicitly and overtly romantic or sexual in media is “cowardly” is not only exhausting, but genuinely fucking infuriating.
First, queer coding is not the same as queerbaiting, and queer coding absolutely had and still has its place in all types of art, second, it’s restricting to the types of characters and stories that queer artists can create, especially queer creators who are not out, professionally or at all, and third, your conceptualization of what is queer enough is exclusionary. End of story.
This year sucked in a lot of ways. But the music helped me get through a lot of it. Here are my top albums of the year, anecdotes and all- in no specific order.
*Kadhja Bonet - Childqueen
This is an album that you need a deep velvet fainting chair, long silk robe and burgundy glass of wine while you listen to it on vinyl. Her Thoreau-ian lyrics about the physical world and how they materialize into our emotional landscapes emote a sadness that soothes as it plays. Listen from start to finish, repeat.
*Shygirl - Cruel Practice
This album is like being chased through an underground club by a serial killer but when they catch you, you both just pop your pussy on the dance floor till 6AM. In a world where dance music feels all too the same, Shygirl’s album stands out.
*U.S. Girls - In A Poem Unlimited
By far my most played record of the year. In a year for me that often felt as though my emotions and my actions were futile this album fit the bill. IAPU is like if Kyley Minogue sang on Sgt. Peppers’ Lonely Heart Clubs Band in the 1980’s.
Favorite song L-Over. “Can you imagine trying to get some satisfaction out of stone? One would have to wait their whole life and I don’t have time for that.” I fucking wish she told me this sooner TBFH.
*Smerz - Have Fun
This album sounds like whispering into a vocoder through gritted teeth to an old crush from grade school on the playground you first met. It starts to rain on your jorts so you go home to download music on limewire over your dial up internet connection to burn them a CD. You write “To:______ From:______” but hate your hand writing to so you have to burn a new CD. You regret the time and effort spent so you microwave the CD and watch it burn. The next day your parents ask why the microwave is broken and you just whisper “love.”
*Boyboy - Boy
Hi, it’s me your local fag here to talk about representation and diversity in the music industry. Growing up I had limited sight of LGBTQ in media. Having always longed for things that were not “popular,” same sex pronouns in music, queer love stories. This gives me a taste of what I needed. This album is like falling in love at a concert, you dance a little bit, make lots of eye contact and make a move and allow those butterflies to take over.
*Kelela - Take Me_A Part, The Remixes
If you don’t know already it’s pronounced kuh-leh-lah. Get that shit right it’s nearly 2019. TMAP got me through the roughest part of a break up and these remixes are here to remind you that men still ain’t shit. Asmara was the executive producer on the album and killed it, each remix is a new interpretation or a beef up of the original. Features junglepussy, Cupcakke Joey LAbeija and Serpent with feet.
*Blood Orange - Negro Swan
This album wasn’t made for me, but I appreciate its beauty regardless. Hynes is an idiosyncratic genius. PERIOD.
“exploration into my own and many types of black depression, an honest look at the corners of black existence, and the ongoing anxieties of queer/people of color. A reach back into childhood and modern traumas, and the things we do to get through it all”
Negro Swan was a perfect example of art imitating life. Although this album very much is an affectation of our current climate, Hynes was able to create something with which the meaning will not be lost in time. Every person regardless of race, sexuality, religion can find themes they can relate with on this gem.
*Tirzah - Devotion
Tirzah has the ability to say a lot without actually saying too much. Her lyrics can be blunt but her instrumental cuts and loops help to soften the blow. Her loops and hooks drive home points that none of us are always able to say aloud, but with practice and repetition we speak it to truth.
*Sophie - Oil of Every Pearl’s Un-insides
If you think PC music is just beep boop beep (it can be), Sophie adds soul. Each song on the album is different; from thumping club bangers like Ponyboy and Faceshopping to blissed out ballads like It’s Okay to Cry. Although this album covers a lot of territory, it’s common thread is how beautiful it is to be human.
*Beach House - 7
Like, duh. Having been a fan of Beach House forever this album is a no brainer. Upon closer inspection though, this album really stands out from the rest of the Beach House discography. Subtly darker, the instrumentation deeper at times and lyrics feel fed up with the ennui of their day to day- Or maybe I’m projecting.
*Ah-Mer-Ah-Su - Star
If you don’t already know Star, she’s a musician from the bay who already has some amazing EP’s under her belt.
The album covers lots of ground, from pop anthems like Heartbreaker, spirit lifting ballads like Powerful as well as being punctuated by vignette’s about moving through the world as trans, practicing self compassion etc.
*Kacey Musgraves - Golden Hour
Howdy. Never in my life did I think I would chose to listen to a “country” album. This album has the power to defy preconceived notions of what country is, while still remaining true to its roots. This album is lyric gold, Kacey loves to speak in metaphor and is able to paint vivid pictures in under 3 minutes. (NGL I started listening to this album under the guise that Kacey was a lesbian- although now I know otherwise the album still ~slaps~ and she’s a gay icon tbh)
*Suspiria - Soundtrack
The marriage of music and film is a difficult one, to create an entire album that holds up as well as the movie is even more troubling. Yorke always delivers.
Being queer saved my life. Often we see queerness as deprivation. But when I look at my life, I saw that queerness demanded an alternative innovation from me. I had to make alternative routes; it made me curious; it made me ask, “Is this enough for me?”
not to Discourse but I’m a cis man and my partner is an afab enby and if you call us a “straight couple” I will personally come to your house tie you to a chair and make you listen to a podcast about gender identity on endless repeat
this is specifically @ the people who saw us at pride together and saw them wearing a “THEY/THEM” button andstill referred to them as my “girlfriend” you’re all cancelled thanks
it’s called respecting queer people juice
y'know the really amazing thing about the notes on this post - apart from just the sheer number of people who are, like, viscerally terrified of the existence of a person who isn’t cis - is how many of them are responding to things that aren’t here. specifically, you’ll notice I said nothing about my sexuality. I didn’t say I identified as non-het, or that I considered myself part of the LGBTQIA community. on the flip side, I also didn’t give you any reason to believe I’m not bi, or that I’ve never been in a relationship with a cis man. y'all know nothing about my sexuality from this post and you don’t need to and I’m not going to tell you about it now because! this post! was not! about me!
it was about respecting my partner’s identity. and the fact that they don’t get that respect from people in the exact community that they should be able to count on getting it from.
ie,you.
they are not het or cis, and no relationship they are in will ever be a “straight relationship” because they. are not. het. or. cis.
everyone in the notes gatekeeping me because I’m “not oppressed”? I never said I was. the person you’re really attacking and invalidating by shitting on this post is them, a pansexual nonbinary person who is unerasably queer.
huh. it’s almost as if the whole “we can’t let straight men use queerness to worm their way into our community” discourse is just an excuse to hate trans people, isn’t it.
You’ll never know it all and you’ll never be perfect. But following the lead of your LGBTQ+ friends to CHALLENGE DISCRIMINATION is a vital way to show your love for all people. Most queer people will agree there are “allies” and then there are FABULOUS ALLIES! How can you live the love you proclaim? Here are 10 suggestions from Beloved Arise volunteer, Stephen Cowden, one of our favorite fabulous allies!!
10 Ways to be a Fabulous Ally to LGBTQ+ People
01: LISTEN, LISTEN, and LISTEN.
If you are cishet, don’t assume you know what it’s like to be queer. Make a habit of listening to LGBTQ+ voices.
02: AMPLIFY LGBTQ+ VOICES.
When you speak for them, you risk speaking over them. Instead, you should elevate their perspectives.
03: REJOICE WITH THEM.
Show the queer people around you that they are valued and recognize their faithfulness.
“Rejoice with those who rejoice…weep with those who weep.” Romans 12:15
04: MOURN WITH LGBTQ+ FOLX.
Seek to understand the challenges they face. Validate the pain they feel.
05: PARTNER, DON’T PATRONIZE.
To you, LGBTQ+ inclusion may be an abstract cause. But it is very personal to lots of folx. Treat people like people rather than a cause.
06: DO YOUR OWN HOMEWORK.
Don’t expect queer folx to educate you. Allyship is not passive; you need to be proactive in your own learning and growth.
07: NORMALIZE QUEERNESS.
Put your pronouns in your social media profiles and email signatures. Use gender-neutral language. Don’t assume cisgender and heterosexual is the norm.
08: DISARM THE HATERS.
Arguing just gives them a platform, and let’s face it, many haters aren’t really open to changing their minds. Try this: respectfully acknowledge where you agree and disagree, and then move on…
09: ERR ON THE SIDE OF HUMILITY.
You will make mistakes. You will misspeak and misstep, so always be humble and willing to do better.
10: LOVE OTHERS!
“Love from the center of who you are; don’t fake it… Be good friends who love deeply; practice playing second fiddle.” Romans 12:9-10 The Message
I feel like a universal young queer experience is knowing that you’ll never actually get to be your true self until you’re out of your parents house, everything before then is an extremely watered down version of yourself. And your parents think they know everything about you but you really have a whole other personality and they know absolutely nothing about you, or only what you want them to know. It even applies to your beliefs, religious or political.
First book recommendation for the year is is this incredible book : “I’m A Wild Seed” by @sharonleedelacruz : published through @streetnoisebooks Feeling all the tender and queer glory. Feeling all the internal (un)learnings and all the thought provoking reflections. If you are looking for a graphic novel about coming of age, personal growth, #queerness , and finding self/community, and queer intersectional history —- this is for you!! May i also mention how the illustrations are oof ❤️✨. Such talent!! Go get yourself a copy and follow @sharonleedelacruz !!
I didn’t want to make the message ace-specific because I wanted to make a point of how all of the above include aspec people, but I tried to use an ace colour palette for the background :) I also think the message applies especially (even if not exclusively) to the ace community!
Hope you like these
@rockmarina possibly “all labels were made up at one point, stop being an ass”?
I played around with the concept a bit, I hope you like it anyway!
I feel like this also needs to be said:
[ID:
Image 1: (in white text, on a background of rainbow watercolors) Gatekeeping hurts queer people who are questioning.
Image 2: (in white text, on a background of rainbow paint strokes) Gatekeeping hurts more queer people than it protects.
Image 3: (in white text, on a background of pastel watercolors) How about you let people question their gender and sexuality in peace.
Image 4: (in white text, on a photo of the rainbow pride flag flying in a blue sky) People don’t owe you a chronicle of their life experiences and feelings for you to decide whether they belong in their own community.
Image 5: (in white text, on a marbled pink background) I don’t know how to tell you this, but you are not the queer police.
Image 6: (in white text, on a background of multicolored textile) Stop siding with our oppressors.
Image 7: (in white text, on a photo of pieces of chalk arranged in a rainbow on asphalt) Not every queer person’s experiences need to be like yours.
Image 8: (in white text, on a background of shiny, rainbow chunks of metal (?)) Mind your own damn business.
Image 9: (in white text, on a mottled black & rainbow background) Let people change labels.
Image 10: (in white text, on a photo of a full moon in a dark sky) There’s no such thing as not being queer enough.
Image 11: (in white text, on a background of paint strokes in pink, white, magenta, purple and dark blue, the colors of the genderfluid pride flag) Vocabulary is designed to be constantly reinvented as human societies evolve, and labels aren’t the exception.
Image 12: (in white text, on a background of pink, purple, and turquoise) Gatekeeping is a product of privilege.
[Image description: (in white text, over a black background with trees decorated with multi-colored lights) Queer people don’t have to make themselves palatable to deserve respect. End ID]
[Image description: (in white text, over a wooden background with curved boards the colours of the rainbow) It’s okay to use a label even if it doesn’t fit perfectly. End ID]
…you know what, I think the message of this post really boils down to this:
[ID: (in white text, over a black background with striking rainbow lights) gatekeepers are nothing but bullies. End ID]
And I’m really glad this post has helped so many people feel a bit less alone in their struggles. Bullies have made a LOT of damage in this community—have made so many of us feel like impostors, like trenders, like maybe we were making up the things we were feeling—and it makes me so happy we’re all pushing back against their hateful, narrow-minded, queerphobic rhetoric.
Keep it up, everyone
Happy pride month to the post that marked the beginning of my journey to overcoming internalised queerphobia
“And I truly believe that my sexuality is a part of my path. It is not an unfortunate detail to be overlooked, it is not an unhealthy desire or a crude lust to be repressed and reprimanded, it is an expression of love and a simple fact. I am no stranger to the sting of rejection as a result of my queerness, but such pain has given me courage, the bravery to be soft and gentle and loving in a world that wishes to stop my love and to silence my words. This is the beginning of acceptance, this is the start of hope.”
-on internalised homophobia and the reconciling of two different loves.
what a beautiful thing, to be queer. how lovely it is to be strange, to have edges that spill out over the lines, to be undefinable. the oddity of our hearts is something to be treasured. never change for anyone.
It should be noted that he was not the first queer activist in Germany: that was Karl Heinz Ulrichs, who publicly advocated for decriminalisation of homosexuality in 1867. This is not to take away Hirschfeld’s achievements - far from it. It’s a reminder that our history goes a lot further back than people think, despite attempts to erase this history.
the queer community was formed by people who were deemed strange and abnormal in society based on them not conforming to expectations about sexuality & gender. there are no specific boundaries bc this isn’t a club. a cishet guy that likes wearing dresses who fights side by side with us for true liberation, is 100x more queer than a millionaire gay man who’s besties with companies that sell us watered down versions of our own culture for profit during pride while donating to homophobic lawmakers every other month.
i’m gonna say this again because it really pissed some people off: yes, I would rather have a cishet GNC man who stands with queer people, is involved in our spaces and our culture, stands up for us when we are attacked, and is active in furthering queer liberation, than a rich gay man who spits on the lower-class queers who gave him the ability to be out, who sells his soul to corporations who couldn’t give less of a shit about us, just for the wealth and power of capitalism. Fuck that guy. I’m not saying he isn’t gay - he is! Nothing can take that away! But we have the saying “not gay as in happy but queer as in fuck you” for a reason. The family-friendly gay millionaire isn’t my brother. The poor crossdresser who has been a part of this community since it’s inception is. Fuck your bootlicking bullshit.
yes evil gay man & our poor little cishet king
Looks like that saying came about in spring 2007… Pretty sure gay people have been around and had a community for longer than that.
Kind of like Queer people have been the center of the activism and the community for longer than the specific phrase “queer as in fuck you”
No one is saying that gay men are inherently not queer. What is being said here is that queer is a more nebulous and complicated label than just a synonym for LGBT specifically, and that much of its power is rooted in its disruptive and activist nature. That yes, cross dressers and drag queens, regardless of how they define their gender and sexuality, can and always have been part of the queer community- and often far more so than assimilationists who side with conservatives and reactionaries.
Edit: ahahahahaha blatantly trabsphobic posts once I check your page. Dammit, every God damn time it’s a transphobe. Yall are so predictable.
This conversation plays through my head any time I see a “queer is a slur” bullshit post on this site or anywhere, really.
(Homer’s Phobia, 1997 – guest star, John Waters)
Someone just liked this, so I want to add an important note:
“queer is a slur” is a common tool used by TERFs to poison young queers against their own community. They teach young queers that using “queer” is against the rules because “queer is a slur” and then young queers repeat it because the elders in their queer social circle told them so.
Why? Because if young queers understand that queer is a loving and welcoming term for everyone who is not straight or does not match their birth sex, then TERFs lose all their power.
Because TERFs don’t just hate trans and non-binary people. They also hate bisexuals and pansexuals for wrecking their view that to be a wlw, you only live women with vaginas and to be mlm, you must only love men with penises.
But also, to reject the use of queer, you must reject intersex people because TERFs base their entire view on what set of genitals you have, and because intersex people don’t have textbook junk, TERFs don’t like them either.
And you must reject asexual queers across the board because so much of TERF defense is “I just wanna fuck a woman with a vagina or a man with a dick!” And if you have zero or minimal interest in fucking anyone, you wreck their arguments about what queer people want.
You know who else TERFs don’t like? Questioning people. Because to question your sexuality and realize you are straight is a loss for them. To question your gender and realizes it matches your birth sex is a loss for them. Why? Because to question either of these things means you examine who you are beyond a base level, and if you go behind a base level and understand even a basic sense of the confusing and difficult nature of sexual attraction and how it does and does not affect your gender, you can more easily see the holes in TERF arguments, which are all based on stereotypes of gender and sexuality.
The only reason the “B” makes it into the TERF acronym of queer culture is because if they left it at “LG” their hatred of the entire part of the community who is most comfortable using “queer” is a six-foot neon sign.
And to any bisexual TERFs I haven’t yet blocked who want to argue they are bisexual TERFs, so my argument about the use of “B” as a political abuse is invalid: The monosexual TERFs will have you against the wall in a fucking second. You are the sullied allies they put up with until you step out of line.
Lastly, the gay man in this episode is voiced by John Waters. He is a gay legend for tacky film and also an activist for queer rights. When his joke of the Baltimore Museum of Art naming a bathroom after him finally came true a couple of years ago, it was a gender-inclusive bathroom. And he brought his longtime friend and trans activist Elizabeth Coffey with him.
I am certain John Waters would tell you not to fuck TERFs in the same way he has said not to fuck people who don’t have books in their houses. And I am certain John Waters–an out and proud gay man known for his beautiful trash cinema and love and support of trans people–would tell you that queer is not a slur.
“Queerness, to me, is about far more than homosexual attraction. It’s about a willingness to see all other taboos broken down. Sure, many of us start on this path when we first feel “same sex” or “same gender” attraction (though what is sex? And what is gender? And does anyone really have the same sex or gender as anyone else?). But queerness doesn’t stop there. This is a somewhat controversial stance, but to me queer means something completely different than “gay” or “lesbian” or “bisexual.” A queer person is usually someone who has come to a non-binary view of gender, who recognizes the validity of all trans identities, and who, given this understanding of infinite gender possibilities, finds it hard to define their sexuality any longer in a gender-based way. Queer people understand and support non-monogamy even if they do not engage in it themselves. They can grok being asexual or aromantic. (What does sex have to do with love, or love with sex, necessarily?) A queer can view promiscuous (protected) public bathhouse sex with strangers and complete abstinence as equally healthy. Queers understand that people have different relationships to their bodies. We get what it means to be stone. We know what body dysphoria is about. We understand that not everyone likes to get touched the same way or to get touched at all. We realize that people with disabilities may have different sexual needs, and that people with survivor histories often have sexual triggers. We can negotiate safe and creative ways to be intimate with people with HIV/AIDs and other STIs. Queers understand the range of power and sensation and the diversity of sexual dynamics. We are tops and bottoms, doms and subs, sadists and masochists and sadomasochists, versatiles and switches. We know what we like and don’t like in bed. We embrace a wide range of relationship types. We can be partners, lovers, friends with benefits, platonic sweethearts, chosen family. We can have very different dynamics with different people, often all at once. We don’t expect one person to be able to fulfill all our diverse needs, fantasies and ideals indefinitely. Because our views on relationships, sex, gender, love, bodies, and family are so unconventional, we are of necessity anti-assimilationist. Because under the kyriarchy we suffer, and watch the people we love suffering, we are political. Because we want to survive, we fight. We only want the freedom to be ourselves, love ourselves, love each other, and live together. Because we are routinely denied that, we are pissed. Queer doesn’t mean “don’t label me,” it means “I am naming myself.” It means “ask me more questions if you’re curious…“”
Looks like I’ll be on the road soon exploring queerness in the south - thanks to all the amazing people that have reached out so far! Trying to fill in my map as much as possible so offer still stands for individuals, couples, and groups of friends message me if interested! @peytonfulford
The old gays didn’t throw fists for each other in the streets so you could harass random strangers about what words they use to describe their personal sexuality over the internet
With that being said “bisexual lesbian” isn’t a thing
Anyway the old gays didn’t throw fists for each other in the streets so you could harass random strangers about what words they use to describe their personal sexuality over the internet
I’d love it if the whole community in its entirety would understand these basic fact in the context of all sexual and gender identity and realise that labels arent for anyone but ourselves and labels are kinda stupid because it doesnt matter if you are one thing or two things or all the things. Just live. Just love yourself. Dont hate others. Especially in the community people that have struggled or still are struggling we are supposed to support eachother not be like the cis radicals.
Actually, watching folks continue to insist that any queer relationship that isn’t explicitly and overtly romantic or sexual in media is “cowardly” is not only exhausting, but genuinely fucking infuriating.
First, queer coding is not the same as queerbaiting, and queer coding absolutely had and still has its place in all types of art, second, it’s restricting to the types of characters and stories that queer artists can create, especially queer creators who are not out, professionally or at all, and third, your conceptualization of what is queer enough is exclusionary. End of story.
Wide open in the shape of an enormous fan splashed with violent colors, Marseille lay bare to the glory of the meridian sun, like a fever consuming the senses, alluring and repelling, full of the unending pageantry of ships and of men.
Magnificent Mediterranean harbor. Port of seaman’s dreams and their nightmares. Port of the bums’ delight, the enchanted breakwater. Port of innumerable ships, blowing out, booming in, riding the docks, blessing the town with sweaty activity and giving sustenance to worker and boss, peddler and prostitute, pimp and panhandler. Port of the fascinating, forbidding and tumultuous Quayside against which the thick scum of life foams and bubbles and breaks in a syrup of passion and desire.
A noted figure of the Harlem Renaissance, McKay had an itinerant career—travelling widely in Europe and North Africa, and eventually forsaking the Marxism of his early years for Catholicism. This vibrant satire, begun in 1929, later abandoned, and now published for the first time, follows a West African stowaway on a boat from Marseille to New York. Discovered by the crew and shut in a freezing room, he loses both legs to frostbite, but, in a twist based on real cases, wins a large settlement from the shipping company and is able to return to Marseille a rich man. Encompassing a huge diversity of perspectives—including memorable evocations of Marseille’s black Marxist scene and of its queer subculture—the novel remains radical in its clear-eyed assessment of racism and unsentimental depiction of disability.
