What are your thoughts on Mambo Spellman/ Zarie (?)? / I’m fully devoted to Madam Spellman and I want them together so hard! But I like the idea of Zelda being canonically into women and I love Marie (as well as Skye) so I’m okay with that relationship but I’m not thrilled.
TW: mentions and discussions of sexual assault, abuse, and ptsd
also this is kind of long i’m sorry
so i know since part three came out, everyone and their mother has had something to say about how caos dealt with (or rather did not deal with) any of the trauma inflicted on some of its female characters. more specifically zelda, lilith, and mary. this is something that really upsets me for many a reason. and some of this has been said before but i really needed to put in my two cents. (i’m not disregarding mary or lilith, but i am going to be specifically referring to zelda because this is a zelda fan blog and i’m going to be specifically referencing our queen and savior miranda otto).
so, the writers really thought they did something woke when they hammered out nick’s ptsd story line. so it is revealed that nick was symbolically raped by the dark lord and possibly literally raped by Lilith (don’t get me started on what a fucked up writing choice this was). i think it is a huge step forward for a show to depict the struggles of a male rape victim. and i think it could have been a good thing if they had handled it better. but not only did they handle his ptsd completely the wrong way (i know everyone processes trauma differently but it felt like they were using it as an excuse to propel teen drama rather than a way to explore trauma and nicks characterization in general) but they also completely ignored the traumatic experiences of the female characters. it’s as if they were telling us that female trauma is nothing of note because it’s to be expected and women should just deal with it. i don’t think that was their intention, but that’s how it read. now, i don’t want to get into lilith because her character arc was a backwards mess and i’m still fuming so i don’t want to touch that right now. but let’s talk about zelda.
i have seen traces of debate about whether or not she was technically abused/raped. the actors and writers don’t seem to realize the obvious implications of the caligari spell. i understand that zelda did not love faustus or even completely trust him. but with that kind of history and physical intimacy (no matter how fucked up or complicated the relationship is), there is SOME level of trust. and not only did faustus shatter that trust, he also took away her choice. their sexual escapades had been very kinky, and that implies a very specific degree of consent. they trusted each other with their bodies, even though they didn’t trust each other with their hearts. whether or not faustus literally raped her (which i believe he did, considering his lack of morals, sexual appetite, and the timing of the caligari spell), that is an utter and total breach of consent and trust. and it WAS abuse in the sense that he manipulated and subjugated her. that leaves mental scars and i don’t believe for one second that is something somebody can just get over (no matter how strong or powerful they are).
i know the cast and writers ignored these implications and even my queen miranda (judging from what she posts on instagram and her answers to fan questions) doesn’t seem to realize the weight of what they’ve portrayed. she’s said that zelda has “given and gotten worse” and “#allisforgiven”. i think that the writers need to take a very good look at this, and the fan reactions (because the majority of opinions i’ve read are similar to this) and address these ladies’ trauma in part four. zelda is such a dynamic character and i think it would be good to incorporate some healing into her development. bc i can NOT take another misguided season of pretending nothing happened.
hi sorry to be annoying but tumblr will not let me reply to anybody through just this blog so i’m reblogfong my own post i’m sorry. i just want to address a few comments (which, thank you everyone btw this was meant to open up a discussion)
i don’t think i spent enough time on this specific point, but i would like to reiterate. even if zelda was not literally raped (which i believe she plausibly was given the nature of the spell, faustus’s established misogyny, etc. it doesn’t matter if his intention was political and merely to neutralize a threat, there are gross implications to this creepy ass spell) it was still an utter violation of trust and body autonomy. also, the only reason i made a point about how the actors and writers responded, was because i think it’s an indicator of how the show will handle the situation from here on out. i’m not saying the actors have to be their characters or anything like that ??? furthermore, i’m not saying zelda has to address her trauma perfectly or in a specific way (i know first hand that people process these things differently). i just worry that the WRITERS will not adresss it at all
sorry for rambling on even longer. this is a serious topic, and i thought some more things needed to be said. i understand that this is a tv show and it’s sole purpose is entertainment but i think that the writers have a responsibility when handling serious topics that affect real people. this is just my humble opinion, i’m not claiming to be right or an expert of any kind. just my views on a tv show and it’s characters
TW: mentions and discussions of sexual assault, abuse, and ptsd
also this is kind of long i’m sorry
so i know since part three came out, everyone and their mother has had something to say about how caos dealt with (or rather did not deal with) any of the trauma inflicted on some of its female characters. more specifically zelda, lilith, and mary. this is something that really upsets me for many a reason. and some of this has been said before but i really needed to put in my two cents. (i’m not disregarding mary or lilith, but i am going to be specifically referring to zelda because this is a zelda fan blog and i’m going to be specifically referencing our queen and savior miranda otto).
so, the writers really thought they did something woke when they hammered out nick’s ptsd story line. so it is revealed that nick was symbolically raped by the dark lord and possibly literally raped by Lilith (don’t get me started on what a fucked up writing choice this was). i think it is a huge step forward for a show to depict the struggles of a male rape victim. and i think it could have been a good thing if they had handled it better. but not only did they handle his ptsd completely the wrong way (i know everyone processes trauma differently but it felt like they were using it as an excuse to propel teen drama rather than a way to explore trauma and nicks characterization in general) but they also completely ignored the traumatic experiences of the female characters. it’s as if they were telling us that female trauma is nothing of note because it’s to be expected and women should just deal with it. i don’t think that was their intention, but that’s how it read. now, i don’t want to get into lilith because her character arc was a backwards mess and i’m still fuming so i don’t want to touch that right now. but let’s talk about zelda.
i have seen traces of debate about whether or not she was technically abused/raped. the actors and writers don’t seem to realize the obvious implications of the caligari spell. i understand that zelda did not love faustus or even completely trust him. but with that kind of history and physical intimacy (no matter how fucked up or complicated the relationship is), there is SOME level of trust. and not only did faustus shatter that trust, he also took away her choice. their sexual escapades had been very kinky, and that implies a very specific degree of consent. they trusted each other with their bodies, even though they didn’t trust each other with their hearts. whether or not faustus literally raped her (which i believe he did, considering his lack of morals, sexual appetite, and the timing of the caligari spell), that is an utter and total breach of consent and trust. and it WAS abuse in the sense that he manipulated and subjugated her. that leaves mental scars and i don’t believe for one second that is something somebody can just get over (no matter how strong or powerful they are).
i know the cast and writers ignored these implications and even my queen miranda (judging from what she posts on instagram and her answers to fan questions) doesn’t seem to realize the weight of what they’ve portrayed. she’s said that zelda has “given and gotten worse” and “#allisforgiven”. i think that the writers need to take a very good look at this, and the fan reactions (because the majority of opinions i’ve read are similar to this) and address these ladies’ trauma in part four. zelda is such a dynamic character and i think it would be good to incorporate some healing into her development. bc i can NOT take another misguided season of pretending nothing happened.
Zelda fell in love with a woman who is gender fluid
Just because that woman has the ability to shift appearances, doesn’t mean that Zelda is any less bisexual nor is their relationship any less gay.
What we lesbians are NOT going to do is invalidate any of those truths. Nobody ‘lost’ a lesbian relationship because both of the people in that relationshiparewomen.
When you make the argument that a ‘man deceived Zelda about his identity’ you are saying by extension that trans women are deceiving their cis partners by not coming out immediately.
I understand it can suck to have your ship break up but lets not go full t*rf about it.
Baron Samedi is a male loa. Appearing in the glamour of a human woman does not mean he identifies as gender-fluid in…any way, shape, or form. Or does Lilith appearing as Edward and Adam to talk to people mean she’s gender-fluid now, too? Marie was not a chosen presentation. This is not a situation of her saying “yes, I am also Baron Samedi, but I like this form and feel comfortable in it and want to be known this way, too.” Marie was an alias he created to be welcomed into the coven and be able to fulfill the task he came to complete. When that task was complete, he went back to his own form, and wasn’t necessary if he had wanted to remain in Marie’s.
It was a lie—not just about gender but about Marie’s entire identity. Mambo Michele Marie LaFleur is not a real person—not a Vodou witch, not a high priestess, not someone whose met-tet called them to Greendale. Male or female, Marie was a loa in disguise, and people have every right to be upset that her character and relationship with Zelda was invalidated by that lie.
Maybe instead of attacking other fans for their reactions to this, we should acknowledge that the actual transphobia is in the fact that RAS and his writers thought revealing a queer female character to actually be a male entity in disguise was acceptable plot choice for a self-proclaimed “feminist” show. We should be angry about that,because THAT is actual terf rhetoric.
reblogging this addition. the whole thing was very abrupt and confusing and i doesn’t see a reason for it to happen. it did not push the plot forward in any way. admittedly i’m not very knowledgeable about this type of deity. i wanted to bring up a plot hole though. at the end of part three when they resurrect hilda, the circle around zelda is distinctly female only. all the males are sitting off to the side. “marie” is part of that circle. i don’t understand how that would have worked if marie isn’t actually a female witch. to be fair there are much more glaring inconsistencies in the series but it’s sort of bugged me.
reply to this and lmk the first three (3) things you would change about part four . (difficult mode bc i would change at least 63 things) and name three things you liked
they really said “let’s write catchy girl power lines about feminism and consent and then gloss over and ignore all the r*pe and abuse our female characters have suffered through to bolster our tangled garbage pile of a plot”
ok i’m still on ep five but i have seen some spoilers in my feed. now i nervous. and disappointed. but not surprised. i’m hoping somebody will take it upon themselves to write a stellar fix it fic
