Alright, listen up kids, I did not endure 10 years of Catholic school and still end up a gay atheist for you guys to miss the absolute brilliance of this scene.
Do you know what is considered the absolute worst sin? I’m not talking the seven deadly sins or even mortal sin. I’m talking eternal sins, the unforgivable sins.
The absolute worst sin is believing that one’s evil is beyond God’s forgiveness.
Let that sink in for a moment.
It sounds crazy. How could it be worse than murder? Genocide?
Because it is a rejection of God.
The central belief of Christianity is that God IS love. This love is so powerful that it brought everything into existence. It is free and unconditional and infinite. Believing that your evil cannot be forgiven is not believing in what God is.
Now, unforgivable sounds like a contradiction. If God is all giving and this love is free and unconditional, how could any sin not be forgiven? This comes down to the nature of love.
Love must be freely chosen. It cannot be coerced. And so the only thing stopping someone from existing in that love is choosingto be separate from it.
Crowley didn’t fall because of questions or hanging out with the wrong people. God didn’t smite him and send him to the pits of the underworld because Crowley was unsure about the divine plan. He fell because HE believed he was unforgivable.
@mylastvowreply: Following that line of thought (and I very much support the arguments OP makes here aka Crowley didn’t fall because of questions or hanging out with the wrong people… He fell because HE believed he was unforgivable.), is that also the reason why Aziraphale didn’t fall?
I mean Zira did a number of things that were clearly against the rules of heaven. He gave away his flaming sword first chance he gets and he lies about it to every one (including God, excluding Crowley btw). He fraternises with the enemy, going on clandestine meetings with Crowley. And we know heaven knows about these meetings. They have pics and Michael is even asking to look into this matter. He conspires with the demon Crowley to stop Armageddon and so on. Lots of things that could get you cast out of heaven if you ask me. Lots of sins here.
But he never falls. He isn’t cast out of heaven for his sins, for his doubts or his questions. Because Zira firmly believes in God’s love and in forgiveness.
I tend to see Crowley not so much thinking that he is unforgivable as such, but rather, thinking that God won’t forgive him, that she can’t forgive him. That is, it isn’t a self-esteem problem of thinking that he is so evil and awful that even a loving God can’t forgive him. Rather, I think Crowley doubts God’s love itself. It is God who is at fault for not being loving enough. He seems to see God as quite manipulative and uncaring not loving at all. We see his questioning multiple times, and he is always questioning the morally of God’s plan eg “you can’t kill kids” or “you shouldn’t test them to destruction”. It reminds me of the old philosophical argument of the problem of evil. In essence, the argument goes - evil exists in the world- children die etc. therefore it can’t be the case that God exists, is all powerful and is perfectly loving. An all powerful, perfectly loving God wouldn’t let kids die. Except, Crowley already knows for certain that God exists and is all powerful and is literally doing the killing of kids. Therefore - her love must be questioned. So, yeah I absolutely agree that he fell for doubting God’s love. But I think he actually directly questioned her love itself, he didn’t get there via low self-worth. That’s why Aziraphale’s “I forgive you” doesn’t seem to affect Crowley, doesn’t seem to be personally meaningful to him. At least, to me it seems that he’s just frustrated by it, frustrated that Aziraphale doesn’t get it. He isn’t asking for redemption from God or Aziraphale. He’s asking Aziraphale to stop playing by Heaven’s rules and get in the damn car. I hope this makes sense!
@anotherhappydinosaurreply: Yes yes yes! This is what I meant. Not that it was a self worth issue, but that believing that she isn’t completely all-loving was doubting what she is. I just think it’s a fascinating dichotomy because both Aziraphale and Crowley are questioning the plan, both are acting against their superiors’ orders, both have done a lot of things I’d classify as morally gray, but one has full faith in infinite love, indiscriminate love. And to me, Crowley talking to God and asking these questions and saying that he didn’t mean to fall shows that he hasn’t quite given up entirely on the idea of God’s love, that he wants to be convinced that her love is unfailing and unconditional. It’s the whole faith/reason paradox, which is a whole other post.
And you’re totally right that the “I forgive you” itself was a bit of a throwaway moment that didn’t mean much to Crowley, but I see its power in revealing this fundamental difference between Crowley and Aziraphale.
I love this commentary! I wrote this post in a fit of inspiration last night without fully editing it and I think you touched on a lot of things that were there in my head and never made it to the page :P
@letsveganlovecomment: I thought he only thought he was unforgivable AFTER his fall, though.
Alright here’s my two cents in the is Aziraphale soft or BAMF question: he’s both. He’s fully both and he’s always been both because, in spite of what we get told, there’s a certain kind of BAMFness that comes from softness. They aren’t actually opposites. Softness (compassion, kindness etc) is not weakness. It requires great strength and it generates strength.
There are two kinds of BAMF. There’s the one we usually see: the hot-headed, competitive, let’s take on the world and win, aggressive, ambitious kind of BAMF. That’s all bravado and hot anger. You know, the kind of anger that calls you to destroy, to conquer? And then after you may well regret your actions?
But there’s the other kind too: a protective, ruthlessly determined, aggressive yes, but in a defensive way kind of BAMF. It is a whole different thing. It isn’t a hot anger at all, but a cold one. It never calls you to seek out and destroy but it is the certainty that you must do what you must do to protect what needs protecting. And when it is moved it is absolutely ruthless. Actions taken are not regretted. They are, after all, simply what had to be done. This is the BAMFness that grows out of softness (compassion, kindness) because part of all of that softness is ruthlessly and fiercely protecting what you love, those you are compassionate towards. It is a kind of righteous anger (appropriately enough!) motivated not by ego but by correcting wrongs.
Think of a mama bear. From the cub’s perspective she’s all love and kindness. All softness. If all’s well she’s happy fussing about with her cave, her world, her cubs. She’s not interested in ego-related aggression like expanding her territory. Far better to make peace, to forge the kind of alliances that allow for a peaceful world in which her cubs can grow. But if you step into her cave and threaten her cubs you’ll see a very different side to all of that softness because she will kill you without hesitation. Not because she’s aggressive in a hot-headed way but out of compassion and love for her cubs. You simply must be eliminated and that’s that.
That is the BAMFness of Aziraphale. It isn’t in opposition to his softness. It grows out of it. His is a righteous BAMFness. He will do everything he can to forge the kind of peace his cubs (Crowley, humanity) need. He’s had no ambitions on anyone else’s territory. But if you step into his cave (the world) and threaten his cubs he will do whatever he thinks is needed to eliminate that threat (break his alliance to Heaven, possess a human, kill a child, argue with the highest authority in Heaven).
And that, for me, is a key lesson Aziraphale gives us: softness is not weakness. That is a lie. There is a kind of ruthless and righteous strength that grows out of softest parts of ourselves. Aziraphale is a soft BAMF.
I think in the series, we see Aziraphale trying to reject and deny his BAMF side a bit, just really fall into being the soft cuddly sofa person, “the nice one.” I think he loses sight, at times, of the fact that he can be both, that he is both, that denying one side or the other is denying himself.
Somewhere between “I’m not fighting in any war” and taking care of the soldier, he rediscovers his BAMF side. Not all at once, not at one specific moment, but action after action shows he is pushing away from his soft side because the world (and Crowley) needs the BAMF angel.
But then he goes too far. He forgets his soft side, and now he’s all-in on killing a child. The BAMF side is where he keeps his strength, but the soft is where his compassion is. He tried to put that side of himself away, and it was nearly a disaster.
But.
Then he finds the balance point. BAMF enough to debate theology with the Archangel fucking Gabriel, soft enough to comfort a scared 11-year-old and help him find the courage to save them.
And…that’s who Aziraphale really is. In that moment, he’s found his best self - the self that is as strong as those around him need him to be, and soft enough to know how to wield that strength.
It might take him some time to get comfortable with the way the two halves occupy his self, but the hardest bit - accepting they are both him, knowing he needs to lean on both sides, seeing them as his inner yin and yang not some dichotomy he has to choose between - that has come, and he has survived it.
@theniceandaccurategoodomensblogreply: No, no — I disagree with this. My whole point is they are NOT separate sides. His is the kind of BAMFness that grows out of softness. His willingness to kill Adam—in that absolutely extreme situation in which he honestly believes it is the only way to save the world—is an act of compassion—for the world and everyone in it—it is the fierce and protective side of compassion. Think: mama bear killing to protect her cubs. He isn’t balancing two sides. It is all one thing. But it is a kind of BAMFness that is rarely portrayed or talked about and so we find it hard to recognise.
@aethelflaedladyofmerciareply: Hmm, I think I didn’t articulate very well and now we’re talking past each other. Let me try again.
Agree:
Aziraphale’s strength comes from his protective instincts and compassion
There is a strength in softness
Soft doesn’t equal weak
They aren’t two sides that need to be chosen between
However:
Heaven’s strength is generally very aggressive, as is Hell’s. This is the lens through which characters see and understand “strength”
This includes Aziraphale - he doesn’t know his own strength, he thinks he’s weak BECAUSE he doesn’t show that kind of strength (I’m soft!) - he thinks he has to play by Heaven’s rules, be one or the other.
And as a result, he feels the need to be less compassionate while saving the world - he is still being protective of the world as a whole, but he THINKS his natural compassion and desire to protect those in front of him is a weakness
This leads to him almost shooting Adam, when a more measured assessment of the situation would have made him realize that he should be trying to help the child.
Then, while watching the Them beat the Horsepeople, he realizes his mistake. He recognizes their strength, and his own, and is able to embrace the balanced strength that comes natural to him
(What I’m reminded of is how in martial arts, people think of being calm and being active as two separate states - you’re calm/at rest/patient, or you’re active/emotional/strong. However, practitioners know you get the best strength from that calm state - they aren’t opposites, you use calm to fuel activity. Acknowledging this and finding your strength in the calmness is an important early step.
(The kind of strength Heaven shows is an opposite of compassion; Aziraphale’s flows from compassion. When he accepts his own strength, he rejects Heaven’s and becomes the better version of himself. It feels like balancing two sides when you do it, but it’s not - it’s rejecting the part you don’t need and learning to draw your strength from the right source.)
I hope that makes more sense…this is very hard to put into words!
@angel-and-serpentreply: He’s a level-headed BAMF. He believes in sacrificing one for the sake of many, if that’s what it takes. He wishes it wouldn’t come to actual violence, though. Destroying the Antichrist isn’t a nice job, but somebody has to do it and Crowley is too busy crying over his car, really darling I could use some help here!
Once he sees that Adam isn’t the unholy threat that they both imagined, but a child - a human child, no different than the other humans he’s been charged to protect - his priorities change then and there.
@theniceandaccurategoodomensblogreply: Yes. While he honestly believes—a totally reasonable belief at the time too—that the only way to save the world is to kill Adam, it is a morally reasonable step to take. It isn’t a failure of softness, it is motivated by compassion. If, when faced with the same scenario, he refused to kill Adam he would have had to live with the death of literally every other child on the planet.
I’ve been inactive for a while, dealing with more important…more time consuming things. I’m currently on pace for a downtown apartment this March, potentially being hired on at my job within the next 2 weeks (I’ve been very busy), and working on some other stuff.
And yes, a nigga laptop screen is still cracked to this day. I just haven’t really made the time to fix it. With my apartment situation soon, I plan to finally get that fixed then and also buy an iMac. I have over 50 drafts right now and plenty more source material sitting around elsewhere (also thank you for 4,600 followers in less than a year of activity, appreciate yall). I’m also going to be starting a Patreon to help push this forward. I’ll have details on that within the next few months, so stay tuned.
Now, in regards to the title: I am Nigerian. Which region and ethnic group we come from, I don’t know this accurate of information yet. I have ancestry within the Senagambian region, Ghana and the Gold Coast. I’ve known a lot about/done a lot of research into genealogy, African archaeogenetics, ethnography, historiography, etc. over the years, and within most of what it happens to be related to, Nigeria has always been a main focus; Igbo, Hausa, Biafra, Sokoto (Usman dan Fodio/Nana Asma'u–two of my biggest interests), Fulani, and Tuareg berber-related things specificially. Among other things. So this came as no surprise to me. My friends I discuss this type of stuff with always joked that I was Nigerian, for w.e reason. I made it my educated guess several years ago, and I also correctly predicted my Y-DNA haplogroup as well maybe 4 years ago; it’s part of a huuuuuge archaeogenetics project I’ve helped a good friend on for years.
Basically, my father’s Y-DNA came back, as I was confident, haplogroup E-V38, subclade being E1b1a. E-V38 in ancient times is thought to have spread originated, in what I’d assume is paleolithic times, in East Africa, but later got to West Africa specifically from the Middle East/Levant. I haven’t gotten to my research projects regarding the anthropological landscape of the ancient Middle East, but now I will! This haplogroup is found primarily amongst Nigerians (Hausa, Fulani, Igbo, Yoruba, etc.), Tuareg Berbers of Niger and Libya specifically, Senegalese, and Ghanaians (Asante, etc.) among others albeit in smaller quantities. Also, from what I read recently from a study of Moorish remains in Northwest Africa, it was also present amongst the Moors of antiquity as well. E-V38 is also the haplogroup of Pharaoh Ramesses III, subclade also being E1b1a, iirc.
My mother on the other hand is an odd discovery! From her mtDNA I inhereted the maternal haplogroup L0a1a, which is common in Southeast Africa among people/regions such as Ethiopians and in southern Yemen (my guess is admixture with Ethiopians during the period throughout the kingdoms of D'mt and Saba/Sheba, and the Axumite empire), Mozambique, etc., but also present in small numbers throughtout Northwest/West among the likes of Tuaregs and something like 1 to 5% of Guineans. Oddly enough I grew up with a lot of Eritrean people (one of those “two families collide into one” type of deal that goes back generations; also by marriage). Grew up going to coffee ceremonies at elders’ homes and eating injera and mesir, lol. Still do once or twice a week to this day. Haplogroup L also happens to be the oldest mitochondrial lineage in human history, iirc, being the offshoot of Mitochondrial Eve in southern Africa. That and Nelson Mandela’s haplogroup.
Lastly, I want to be cultured more on where I come from. If anyone could assist me, this would be AMAZING! Fr family somebody get me hip.
Nigeria specifically my knowledge of Nigerian history and culture extends to topics/specific subjects like: food ofc, the region’s archaeology, indigenous architecure, a lot about Igbo people/culture, Ile-Ife (but not much more than that about Yoruba), Fula people, Shehu Usman dan Fodio+Nana Asma'u and the Sokoto Caliphate, Hausa people, Asante/Ashanti people/empire (Ik a but on the Gold Coast century long conflict with the British), some northern politics relating to Shaykh Ibrahim Zakzakay/etc., the civil war and Biafra, Songhai Empire (Askia, Sonni Ali, etc.), ik a lot of Tuareg berbers in the north, the Benin empire (bronzes, Walls of Benin, etc.), Kanem-Bornu, etc.
Idk much about recent history, culture, society or any of that. Nothing political much either (aside from Shaykh Zakzakay’s situation, memes from Nigerian films, and Big Man Tyrone on youtube).
