#lesbian discourse
The amount of lgbtq+ discourse that we really wouldn’t care about irl that cishet people debate over is kinda a lot and I think we should talk about that???
here’s that post i was raging about earlier:
I’m not including the OP because they are a minor but I see this same shit all said by lesbophobic adults on and off this site and this is an excellent summary of so many lesbophobic talking points. The OP, to be entirely clear, is not a fucking lesbian, or even a wlw in general.
1) Lesbians are not men and are not attracted to men. This is what lesbian fucking MEANS. If you hear someone say “I’m not attracted to men” and jump to “you’re excluding trans women” with zero other reason to believe that person is a terf, YOU ARE THE ONE IMPLYING TRANS WOMEN ARE MEN. TERFs *misuse* these true statements about what lesbian means as a way of misgendering trans women. TERFs do this WHENEVER they’re talking about “men”. It does not mean it’s terfy to ever refer to men, it means you need to be more alert about the CONTEXT in which some people are talking and what political ideas they very obviously do or don’t align themselves with.
2) “Lesbian spaces” is not fucking “female spaces” rebranded, identity or issue-specific spaces have been a thing forever. “Lesbian spaces” are transphobic When They Include Transphobes And/Or Exclude/Marginalize Trans Lesbians. Trans lesbians belong in lesbian spaces.
3) The idea that lesbians having a definition for our sexuality (which INCLUDES trans women) is indoctrinating young lesbians to become TERFs is embarassing and completely out of touch.
4) The idea that we can’t define ourselves as not attracted to men or not men because some men might not have questioned their gender is. fucked.
5) OP is openly associating trans women with being men, something they accuse lesbians of doing by saying we aren’t attracted to men.
6) OP is saying lesbians are wrong for defining ourselves as not men/not attracted to men because fucking BUTCHES exist, peddling the idiotic and lesbophobic idea that we’re trying to be men/are men-lite/etc. We’re not men, we’re not “man-adjacent”, we’re not “having a connection to manhood”, we’re butch.
7) “people do not owe you their gender identity” sounds like a good point but means fucking nothing when your entire argument is “you cant say lesbians aren’t men/aren’t attracted to men”.
8) OP claims anyone defining sexuality based on gender is harming ALL trans people, as though none of us value sexuality identities, find value in what they mean, could possibly relate to anyone who defines their sexuality in relation to gender… beyond insulting!
9) I am so fucking sick of the idea that any attempt to define any sexuality or gender label is inherently cruel. A cis man is not suddenly a trans man just because he wants to claim a trans identity. A lesbian is not a gay man. A bi cis woman is not a trans woman and lesbian. We coined these labels to describe specific experiences and identities, and that’s FINE.
if anyone else wants to unpack this further or add on please do because i am still boiling with rage over this. i am so fucking sick of people pretending stripping “lesbian” of its meaning is radical and that both quietly implying trans women are like men and that WE are transphobic if we say “we’re not attracted to men” while explicitly Meaning Actual Men, Not Trans Women is somehow actually the most trans inclusive and supportive stance to take. ask yourselves who the fuck is acting like trans women are not women. the call is coming from inside the house!
