So first a clarification, this will be regarding US federal law because ao3 is hosted in the US and thus US law would apply to any legal cases. I am not well-versed in other countries’ laws so I am unsure if similar situations would be the same under those laws. I’m also going to be using federal law when I can because I do not have the patience nor time to look at the millions of different state and territory criminal codes that exist.
tw pedophilia, child abuse, sexual exploitation, rape, etc.
I wanted to do a piece on (you guessed it) what the title is about. Recently we’ve been seeing a lot of rhetoric arguing against the ability for nsfw fic to exist in fandoms originally marketed as kids shows (but also other fandoms).
First, I’ve seen accusations of pedophilia towards adults that do write such fic and then arguments saying “semantics” don’t help the situation. I think that first and foremost there should be the realization that “semantics” are how the world operates. The law operates in semantics, really petty semantics but semantics nonetheless, and in debate word choice and clarity are what matters most (I personally suck at debate so I hope this is clear).
[I’m going to get into the whole issue of morality v legality later dw]
Pedophilia, in criminal law, does not actually exist as a piece of law. Instead what is considered pedophilia falls into two main categories: sexual exploitation of minors and statutory rape. Federally, sexual exploitation of minors (18 U.S. Code § 2251 - Sexual exploitation of children), which includes child pornography, refers to visual depiction of minors in sexual situations (this is a vast oversimplification that works for this purpose) - I believe that state/territory criminal code is similar in the main points. To my understanding, it specifies visual depictions because those images/videos are permanent with the state of the internet today and can negatively impact that individual. Visual depictions show an individual’s face in a way that other media forms do not.
Criminal law is charged with protecting people who exist in the real world and can be negatively affected by something.
This is not to say that writing underage sex is not a bad thing (I do believe that it is) but to say that accusing someone of pedophilia/child pornography/etc. is not right and can have a negative impact for people’s irl lives.
If writing pedophilia/statutory rape was illegal (it is not), many forms of media (books, tv, movies) would be impacted (e.g. riverdale, easy a, secret life of the American teenager, gossip girl, euphoria, pretty little liars, 90210, one tree hill, Lolita, skins, prep, the twilight series, perks of being a wallflower, vampire academy, and many, many more). The crux of the matter is really: is it a visual depiction, and is it a real life person.
And now we get into the legality vsmorality bit. We’ve established that it’s not a crime, nor is it against ao3′s TOS.
Morality seems to be the case that most people are making regarding nsfw content of characters that were underage in their canon material.
The case here is a little more grey rather than black and white and I firmly believe that we can all go around in circles arguing about it because it is grey. You might think it’s immoral to write nsfw content (whether it’s smut, gore, etc.) of characters that were underage in their source material (though I ask you to realize that people age, fictional and not, and perspective change with it), but those are your morals. And while you can attempt to convince people otherwise, it is not right to force people to ascribe to your morality over something as trivial as fanworks. Other topics would definitely have me saying otherwise, but these are fanworks. They’re meant to be a way for people to explore themes and content in different ways
Here’s the other crux of the matter, characters are fictional. They can age. Their creators have aged and are exploring themes interesting and important to them through their content. You might not want to see nsfw content, and you don’t have to. Many creators don’t want their nsfw content viewed by people who don’t want to engage with it (for whatever reason) or underage people. And there are ways to not see that content, which people should employ.
[The internet is a place where this kind of content exists, has always existed, and should always be able to host because otherwise the implications for free speech, etc, are terrible - which I may tackle next.]
The moral and legal argument kind of sucks and I get it, I don’t want to see nsfw sexual content sometimes (for various reasons, and I did engage with it as a minor) and I take steps to ensure that I won’t (through blocking tags, filtering them, etc.) when I feel that way.
And one last thing, I am sorry to say that underage people have sex (the objective proof for that would be teenage pregnancy). It happens (because of a lot of different shit that’s a whole different topic) and its not bad. Consent is important and will always be sexy but the view that sex is always a bad thing comes from conservative voices (and other things i’m not particularly well-versed in so i won’t go further into). Sex is not bad. Sex is normal. And people should be free to explore it in whatever way they like (as long as it is legal, safe, and healthy).
[And in my opinion, fanworks can be a healthy(er) way to explore sex. As a minor, the sex ed I got was atrocious and fic actually taught me a lot. But by choosing to engage in that material (even just choosing to be able to view it), I knew what I was getting into. If you don’t wish to see it, block it, don’t look for it, and utilize filters.]
One of the things I found most upsetting about VLD and the fandom was the weird moral double standard they applied to Lotor. According to the VLD writers, Lotor had just gone too far to be redeemed and HAD to die a horrible death. Then in the final season they turn around a redeemed Haggar, who abused her son, tortured people, and committed multiple genocides. But she, according to the narrative, still had good in her despite being objectively worse than Lotor on every level.
Then there’s the fandom itself. Fuck. The tidal wave of hate began before the character even made his first on screen appearance. I remember a bunch of anti types screeching and whining about how you couldn’t separate Lotor from his previous incarnations, including Sincline. According to their logic, because Sincline was rapist and stalker, VLD Lotor was also a rapist and stalker. And if VLD was to redeem Lotor it would, by extension, redeem Sincline as well. They were the same character. Period. Expect,this logic again seemingly only applied to Lotor. No one was insisting we hate Coran because his GoLion counterpart was sexist. Or we that we hate most of the male GoLion pilots because they were 20 something year-old men who spent about half the series ogling a teenage girl. And, strangely, there were no posts tell us how we can’t like Zarkon or Haggar. Hmmm, funny that… These people were exclusively, and weirdly, obsessed with making sure no one liked VLD Lotor. And to this day I haven’t seen any of them post a coherent answer as to why.
Really, I could go on a lot of longer, but I think you get the picture at this point. It’s been something that has bothered me for awhile and wanted to get off my chest.
So, there has been a reckoning in wangxian/mdzs fandom since yesterday, when twitter fandom found out that popular author (AO3 user Shinocchi) was suspended from AO3. And it turns out it was because she was behind what seemed to be a cyberbullying campaign against other authors on AO3. Which she did on her own (well, and some of her followers. But mostly by herself). She created sockpuppet accounts (fake accounts), which she used to stalk and leave hateful comments, harass authors when their fics were becoming increasingly popular (more comments, kudos and bookmarks). She did this to drive these authors off of fandom. She is a STALKER, and she did severe emotional damage to others. Why? Because their fics were becoming too popular? Because she didn’t agree with wangxian characterization? Proof shows that the one thing all of these authors had in common was that their fics were becoming popular. As soon as this happened, they were attacked by multiple accounts
Geragrena, rikke, cafecliche and yiqie are only a few that have been mentioned that were her victims.
This came about thanks to AO3 user sweetlolixo, another popular mdzs author who was also targeted and harassed by Shino. She compiled pages of proof that all of the people leaving hateful comments on her fics were coming from ONE person. Don’t believe me? She created a thread here where she published a google document with everything that happened and all the proof, plus the response from AO3 that resulted in them banning Shinocchi.
And what was Shino’s response? She blamed “her sister,” then privated her twitter account. Today, she became public again and said she would take responsibility for all the people she hurt and apologize. However, people confronted her about her crappy apology and she ended up deactivating her account.
TLDR: AO3 author Shinocchi was removed from AO3 after another popular mdzs author, sweetlolixo, compiled evidence proving that Shino was a cyberbully who created fake accounts to harass and leave hateful comments on other fics, while pretending to be multiple people. So if you’re looking for her fics and find them deleted? This is why.
UPDATE: Found screencaps of Shinocchi’s apology from this morning, where she said she would take responsibility (well, she still blamed her “sister”) and apologize to everyone involved.
A little less than an hour later (I think?), she deactivated her account and flounced to her website (which is private), where she made a post saying that she’s leaving fandom and that she won’t apologize because nobody wants to hear it.
She made a post on her (private) website, where she basically doesn’t take any responsibility, and instead implies that most of the people dogpiling on her are “those who held grudges” against her, and that she won’t “admit to faults that aren’t hers.” So no apology from Shino to all those affected. Pretty different from what she posted this morning on twitter, isn’t it?
not to throw myself into discourse or anything but fandom went downhill the moment fans began holding up fandom content to mainstream content standards
Elaborate pls.
Shipping is no longer about “hey I think these characters have an interesting dynamic and I want to explore what they would be like together”, it’s “but it needs to be canon, it needs to be healthy, it needs to be representation”
Headcanons are no longer personal opinions but “you are wrong and always have been wrong”, “you are DIRECTLY going against canon with this and here’s a list of reasons why this is so!”
Do I even need to bring up the “fiction = reality” argument here that’s currently so prevalent in fandom circles that, sure, definitely has some truth in it when you’re considering a piece of mainstream media which is going to reach millions of people, but not so much when you’re applying it to a fanfiction with 100 views tops
There are certain things fans want to see in their mainstream content, and that’s okay! I do that too! Diversity is a necessity in media and it’s wonderful that the mainstream media is finally taking steps to rectify that, no matter how small. Fans can now openly communicate with content creators on social media and get them to confirm all manner of headcanons, and that’s good too!
Except some fans have run with this and started using it against fandom, and suddenly you’ve ended up with fans terrified to put forth their own content because it doesn’t fit into the requirements they’re requesting from the mainstream.
One of the best examples to illustrate this recent shift that I can think of is (oh god here we go I’m not even in this fandom) Reylo. If it were to become canon in the films? Sure, feel free to criticise the creators behind the decision all you want! However, exploring the potential such a relationship could have in a fanfiction no-one’s going to read exceptother people interested in the same idea doesn’t open it up to this same criticism.
tl;dr: through wanting to transform the canon, fans are forgetting how to transform the canon for themselves into their own fanworks and this is leading to fans criticising each other on the same level with which they criticise mainstream media without considering the history & small nature of fandom and the intention of fans in their production of content
I agree with what you’re saying, but I do want to point out that sometimes those fanfics with only 100 views end up getting more views and becoming mainstream media (namely, 50 shades of grey).
I agree with everything else you said - I don’t think that what’s mainstream should dictate what’s in fandom, but when stories get big (and just before becoming mainstream), should they still be excluded from criticism?
This is a good point, but allow me to use 50 Shades of Grey as an example since you’ve brought it up:
50 Shades of Grey, in its original form as Twilight fanfiction, was fanfiction written for fandom consumption and published in a fandom space.
EL James, in deciding to publish it, took that fanfiction out of the fandom space and opened it up to full public consumption.
And in turning that fanfic into a published novel, in removing it from its fandom space and placing it in a literature space, EL James shouldhave done her research, or at least sought out critical opinions which influenced the novel’s transition from a fanfic written entirely to amuse herself to a published work.
Does this mean we should be criticising fanfictions which gain popularity in fandom in case the authors decide to do as EL James did and publish it as an original work??
In my opinion, no.
Fanfictions published in fandom spaces are written freely, given freely. We have no way of judging whyan author felt the need to write their fanfics and fanfiction authors do not need to justify themselves even if they do (to use 50 Shades again) write fucked up dynamics in a romantic way, or haven’t done any research on a topic central to their work such as BDSM, etc. If, however, you choose to edit your fanfiction into an original work, it no longer exists in a fandom space and you should be aware of that.
Those popular fanfictions? Remain excluded from criticism because they still exist in a fandom space. If you find aspects of a popular fanfiction to be harmful or worthy of criticism in some way, there’s the back button, or even better, a blank word page to begin writing your own fanfic.
a pervasive and frankly borderline toxic issue in fandom these days is how popular headcanons are elevated to the status of being irrefutable canon and so insanely clung to and that when they are challenged, majority of fandom lose their damn minds and forget they was the ones to make the shit up in the first place
@agl03: There isn’t any new AoS project. I don’t know whether this is just wishful thinking on your part or you’re being a fanbaiting dickhead, but either way your claim is FALSE.
This whole bs about Sansa month being purposefully created to be at the same time of Arya month (which was announced before Sansa month) made me remember how the last Sansa week they made was so full of Dany hate. Even when they’re supposedly celebrating their fave, they have to tear down other characters in the process, be it Arya or Dany. They had a day for “antagonists” (X,X) in which they had whole bunch of anti Dany metas, edits and shitposts. I expect we will see the same this year.
The reason I initially wanted to do this study was so that those in the fandom that feel alienated and pushed aside could use their voices. I realize that not everyone who comes across my survey will fill it out. And I realize that my survey will not even reach the entire fandom. And that’s ok. I’m still hoping to hear as many voices as possible from all different sides of th camp. I want us to be able to use the data I collect like a mirror against the fandom. Sort of like a way to help the fandom see itself from the outside in. I plan to make the responses (not the personal data of respondents!) and analysis free and public for others to use.
If I may be frank, I am one of those fans who has been very disappointed by the show and had been feeling gaslit and mocked since Ragnarok. And I feel like I’m in the minority there.
Now, as with any survey, my goal is to capture different opinions and analyze how they compare and contrast in context as well as numbers. I am unable to change anyone’s mind or judge in how they enjoy the Loki content out there, and nor do I intend to with the survey.
I welcome feedback, concerns and questions. And I invite all Loki fans to participate so that we can hear your opinions.
I am doing my best to conduct this study as respectfully as possible. I do have my own hopes and opinions for Loki and the fandom (and I would enjoy discussing and sharing those, just not within or around the survey). But I am trying to keep my opinions out of the way this data will be presented or analyzed so as to avoid being biased. I don’t want any points of view to feel mocked or dismissed by my survey.
I also want to state that while I tried my best to be considerate and mindful in the creation of this survey, I am not perfect. If my survey troubles or offends, I apologize in advance and would like to hear your point of view as well.
I hope this helps.
This survey is so badly formatted and hyper focused on anti talking points that I’m struggling to even get through it. The answer I wanted to give to most questions was: “N/A, this topic is irrelevant to my opinion of Loki.”
First of all, putting out a survey on a website known to cluster like minded people together, where only people who follow you and people who follow them will see it, is not a good way to get unbiased data.
By nature of your blog representing your opinions prior to giving the survey, your followers are more likely to agree with your opinion, which means your data will be skewed towards your opinion.
If you really do want unbiased data, then you need to put it on the Marvel subreddit and the LokiTV subreddit as well. These are the places that the general fandom hangs out.
Secondly:
“The reason I initially wanted to do this study was so that those in the fandom that feel alienated and pushed aside could use their voices.”
So your goal, by your own admission, is to determine with “data” whether or not you are a minority opinion. Data which you know will be skewed in your favor because only you and followers of your followers will answer it.
Was Loki OOC?
No, it’s canon Loki. He is the character. He literally can’t be out of character because he is the character. We are allowed to say we don’t like that character, or that we find that character inconsistent with past portrayals, but we cannot say that the canon representation is “OCC” because that literally is not possible. They created the character, they are allowed to do whatever they want with it.
Was Loki a narcissist in the show? (With a fuckin Wikipedia link?? xD are you serious?)
First of all, he’s a fictional character. He cannot be psychologically diagnosed. Period. And certainly not by a bunch of lay people with no criteria given for the diagnosis.
If you genuinely wanted respondents to make an assessment of Loki’s personality, then the question should include the DSM-V diagnostic criteria for Narcissistic Personality Disorder. For NPD to be diagnosed 5 of the 9 behavioral traits have to be present for a prolonged period of time.
So if you really wanted data on fan’s interpretation of this character trait, then it would be better to ask the respondents to mark which specific diagnostic behaviors they believe were exhibited in which films.
This would be a question that adds nuance to a respondent’s answer, rather than encouraging them to make a subjective opinion and generalize.
Relationships
Now this section really feels uncomfortable to me. This really feels like you are fishing for data to stir the pot. Why only ask about Lokus and Sylki? Why not ask about friendships? Fan ships like Loki/Pres Loki?
If you want to know the state of the fandom, why aren’t you asking about the fandom? Canon is irrelevant to fandom. It’s a starting point we all throw out immediately.
So why is my opinion on canon the only thing you’re asking about?
Oh, right, because the point of the survey isn’t to assess the state of the fandom, it’s to assess the fandom’s opinion of your anti talking points.
Which brings me around to my real complaint….
What could you possibly hope to accomplish by compiling numerical data about subjective opinions? In what world is a number value related to fan’s highly nuanced opinion of Sylvie more useful than a full text post that actually explains why they like or dislike her?
Well, you told us already:
“My goal is to capture different opinions and analyze how they compare and contrast in context as well as numbers.”
I see, you need the numbers so that you can validate your opinions with “data.”
For example:
“Oh, it looks like 75% of people who enjoyed the Loki show were new fans who haven’t seen the older MCU movies. I guess they just don’t see the problems we older fans do because they’re ignorant to the character’s rich history.”
Like, no. Please don’t. I do not want my opinions taken out of context and used to subtly put down other fans.
Make whatever claims you want, but this post is coming from a side of fandom that has a long history of acting superior and being intolerant of other fan’s interpretations. Look at the reblogs, it’s a who’s who of this fandom’s most toxic, self-pitying “nobody understands Loki like I do” voices. I have zero faith that this data will be used responsibly.
Don’t let them drag you into this dumb discourse BS disguised as a survey like they did me.
To OP: You guys aren’t victims. Nobody’s bullying you for having different opinions. You’re feeling alienated because you are. You’re being ignored by the fandom at large because you’re still bitching about Loki being OOC in 2021 and inserting politics into people’s leisure activities.
These are the people that called you, the fandom, “OOC” if you liked Loki TV. These are the people who said Loki was OOC because (and I can’t even say this with a straight face) he flinched in the Loki series. Seriously, look it up. That was one of these people’s hot takes. Loki never jumped in the old movies, now he does. OOC!!!! This is a travesty! They’ve RUINED OUR FAV.
Yeah, no thanks. You can keep your misleading questions and weird critiques. I’m happy over here writing raunchy, immoral, abusive, manipulative, self-cestuous, IMMORAL time trio debauchery.
And let me tell you, it’s a lot more fun than being constantly angry because I’m still engaged in a fandom that I haven’t liked since 2017.
Thanks for your input. I’m not going to respond to your opinions on me, others or the fandom. Do I disagree with what you’re saying and the aggressive tone you’re using? yes. Are you the one attacking me on MY post about MY survey? Also yes. So who’s the toxic one? Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. This isn’t the place to do this. A petty argument you’re failing to intimidate me with isn’t worth it.
I’m sorry you didn’t like the survey. If you don’t like it, then by all means share that opinion on the survey. And if not, just walk away. There’s a handful of other surveys with other biases and points of view you can choose from. And there’s so many wonderful writers and people with interesting theories that they share on all sides of the fandom. I wrote up the questions as best as i could, based on my questions and opinions and as stated before, some were requested by the fandom.
I’ve seen other surveys and even when I didn’t like what they were saying, i responded honestly and respectfully. I don’t see why doing that and walking away is so hard for you. This is a fan made survey. You don’t get rewards or brownie points for liking or hating it. So you’ll have to go find validation for your insecurity elsewhere.
And for your information, Tumblr is NOT the only place this was shared. I shared and invited Loki fans on various sides of the fence to respond ON MULTIPLE SITES AND FAN GROUPS.
Not like you actually cared about how verifiable the data will be or not. But I am doing what I can to hear as many different voices as possible. This is a fan survey, for fun. I’m not a researcher from Harvard and I’m not the marvel marketing team. I don’t get anything out of this besides interactions with the fandom.
Feel free to write your own post to share your opinions. Heck, write your own survey! The more the merrier. Just please remove your toxic attitude from other people’s blogs and conversations. Whether you agree with my opinions or not, I was and still am inviting all viewpoints to respond and share their thoughts. I didn’t ask for your venom.
“I welcome feedback, concerns and questions. And I invite all Loki fans to participate so that we can hear your opinions.”
@dendrite-blues oh, you’re back. Not sure if you’re aware. But there’s a difference between providing feedback and being a hateful troll. I hope you learn that someday. I’ll block you after this. Bye now.
I personally find one or two of the questions and answers in this survey, you know, questionable. Still, op has done nothing to deserve this level of ire from you.
All fandom spaces have a degree of clusters, let’s not pretend otherwise. Plus, I’ve heard this has been posted elsewhere also.
Besides all of that, she can have more than one goal with this entirely informal survey, can she not?
As to your points:
Was Loki OOC?
“They created the character, they are allowed to do whatever they want with it.”
Who is they? Waldron? Feige? Waldron certainly didn’t create the character of Loki and Feige didn’t either.
We could go back to the comics creators for all this matters and we’d still have a bunch of different writers writing for Loki to the point where arguing semantics over phrasing is pointless.
You know what people mean when they say out of character. They mean exactly what you said they mean: inconsistent with past portrayals.
Was Loki a narcissist in the show?
Wikipedia is a valid source of information when you’re first looking something up and with sources always linked for easy access.
For me though, the definition is unnecessary in the survey as it is just a reductive summary, and I agree that it doesn’t offer much in the way of nuance.
I also agree that the category could have been expanded, but for the purposes of just answering whether someone personally thinks one way or the other, it’s not so egregious, in my opinion.
“First of all, he’s a fictional character. He cannot be psychologically diagnosed. Period. And certainly not by a bunch of lay people with no criteria given for the diagnosis.”
Yeah, fans are not diagnosing him with anything*. The show used the word narcissist and people took an issue with how it was presented because Waldron and co are actually the ones with no clue as to what this diagnosis is.
Also, while the creator of a survey may be impartial, the respondent’s answers are actually allowed to be their subjective opinions.
*In case you mean in general, for all of Loki’s possible ailments, the fans are not conducting a diagnosis so much as an analysis of what they personally see is being presented to them. And if they say they think he has something they also have, it’s just a way of relating to him.
We may have our own interpretations but overall It’s an entirely harmless activity.
Relationships
Clearly, she just added the two most relevant ships people have apparently been in fandom fighting about. Seems logical to me.
I agree this category could have been expanded but there really is no need to phrase it the way you did.
And then, “Canon is irrelevant to fandom.”
Canon informs fanon and fandom engagement and is, therefore, actually very relevant.
Finally, let’s address your “real complaint”.
“Make whatever claims you want, but this post is coming from a side of fandom that has a long history of acting superior and being intolerant of other fan’s interpretations. Look at the reblogs, it’s a who’s who of this fandom’s most toxic, self-pitying “nobody understands Loki like I do” voices. I have zero faith that this data will be used responsibly.”
You don’t think you’re displaying the same behavior with your phrasing and tone in this response? You really don’t see how your attitude reflects your own criticism?
I’ve been active in this fandom for a short while, admittedly, but what you are saying is not what I’ve been seeing or experiencing. “Nobody understand Loki like I do” is a straw-man statement.
You echo here what I’ve seen elsewhere: You claim this side of the fandom is mentally unwell and yet are committed to burying them further down. Why? How is that in any way okay?
People on “this side” are a varied bunch. They are also people, in the end. Just like you, or me - you don’t stand above them.
“You’re feeling alienated because you are. You’re being ignored by the fandom at large because you’re still bitching about Loki being OOC in 2021 and inserting politics into people’s leisure activities.”
Fine. So you prefer to consume your content much like one would consume a steaming bowl of popcorn?
No shame here. We all do sometimes, including me. However, I’m sure you’ve had moments where you’ve consumed media and had something to say about it. You are not the only one with the right to do that.
In the end, it’s kind of telling that this, by your own admission, is your real complaint.
You’ve come out of the woodwork to do exactly what fans on the so called “negative side of the issue” say people like you keep doing and you don’t seem to realize it.
“And let me tell you, it’s a lot more fun than being constantly angry because I’m still engaged in a fandom that I haven’t liked since 2017.”
Was writing all of this fun for you? You do seem plenty angry to me.
So I definitely need to make this post, based on how a couple of my other posts have been interpreted: I am in fact a Wanda stan. Just because I am dissatisfied with her character arc does not mean I think she’s the devil, or evil, or any flavor of character that does not involve sympathetic qualities. I am able to criticize a thing and still enjoy it. Quite frankly, I think it’s extremely telling that she gets shit on but Thanos and Loki all get let off the hook. No one is allowed to complain to me about Wanda until I stop hearing takes about Thanos being right in wiping out half of the universe, or takes about how we should sympathize with Loki blowing up New York because he didn’t have the best father in the world.
Also, coming into an MCU tag, taking a post from an MCU oriented blog, and reblogging it to call MCU fans idiots and babies is the lamest of moves. Go touch grass and stay out of a side of Tumblr you clearly want no part in, because we have enough shit going on.
anyway this is what the tumblr user @idhrenniel is doing on twitter, if you follow this person please unfollow me asap
i forgot to mention this happened because i called one of them out for spouting terf rhetoric on twitter while arguing with trans activists, talking about trans women and their “male bodies” and then claiming she just forgot the wordamab
they have this idea that since i don’t like their brienne/cersei crackship i’m lesbophobic and they keep coming at me with this kind of crap
I literally don’t care what side of a fandom debate you’re on; it is NEVER okay to mock someone’s appearance.
so this interview [x] was done pre SPN NJ and now I’m mad about how people treated him all over again
QUESTION: “Are you affected by certain fans reactions?”
Misha: “uh, yeah. there have been times i have been - I, um, after my character died on Supernatural, I tried to kind of defend the show’s treatment of my character’s death on social media, um - partly because the producers had asked me to do that and I got a lot of pushback, and uh - I was really sad about that, it actually really affected me because I had worked really hard to get the ending for my character where he makes this declaration of love to Dean. And then the fans sort of came after me, for being…you know, not being a good ally, and I - that was hard for me. So there have been a few instances that…has been challenging.
QUESTION: “On the contrary, do the fans give you strength”
Misha: I do, but I - I can look at a twitter feed and see a hundred comments of “oh my gosh Misha i love you so much; you’re the best” [higher pitch used here], and then one person says "Misha’s not a good ally; or Misha’s not a good person” and all I see is that one. It’s called negativity bias, and it’s common - but [small self deprecating laugh] but I suffer from it.“
hiya fanfiction enthusiasts on Ao3… so, I’m an AVID reader- and have been leaving comments for authors for… 15? .. more? years.
a week ago I got a reply from an author on Ao3 telling me.. essentially:
I wrote this more than 10 years ago and I’m not interested in this story at all, I don’t even go here anymore- so you can stop leaving comments on it.
… and I am.. still trying to figure out how I feel about this development. Authors? can you help me sort this out?
Thanks folks- i appreciate your perspectives.. I think I was really shocked and taken-aback. looking at it a day later, it’s pretty clear to me, that this person is Having an Experience.
The way this ask just burned me out. I’m not posting the whole thing because it links other creators whose attention I do not want as “better” representations of Elain.
Everyday I’m out here minding my own business, not talking shit about other ships, and creating more content than this book ever deserved. And too often y'all send me these obnoxious asks when you could be the change you want to see in the world. Write your own fics.
It’s disrespectful to say she deserves a book that isn’t told in flashbacks where she’s already pregnant because I think she deserves an on page emotional journey. Disrespectful to see value in her character outside of the kitchen or on her knees. OK LOL
Just say you only find value in her character if she’s shipped with a specific bat and move on.
Anyone who thinks that shipping elucien is disrespectful of Elain can fuck right off, I have literally no respect for people who have such a juvenile, half-baked, transparent view of fandom.
Just wondering, is it “disrespectful” to ship Feyre and Lucien while she was engaged to Tamlin? What about shipping Nesta and Eris while she and Cassian are doing it like bunnies? Is it okay if I ship Rhys and Tarquin? What’s okay with you, anon? Should MB send a quick message out so you, a random asshole on the internet, can give a lil morality beta reading every time she wants to post? Please tell us what is and isn’t okay in this, a fantasy book fandom, a place we all know is the most important and most serious and most morally pure thing in the world
Like MB said, I personally think it’s more gross to literally only talk about Elain in the context of her taking the bat dong but I’m not going to act like Elain is somehow harmed by that. Because she’s not real.
I’ll never get over how this fandom has decided that fictional characters have actual agency and feelings in the real world, to the point where you feel okay being an asshole to real people about it.
