I’m still thinking about the dumbest take I’ve read today regarding NWH and that is how the villains were cured and helped “against their will”. Like honestly it’s so hilarious but also…sad? Odd? Pathetic ? I can’t think of the right word because I’m still kinda baffled. Idk like the fact people want to pit Peter’s good deed as some invented issue about consent blows me. It sounds so…disingenuous. Like ya know how you hear on tiktok these weird ass libertarian new age feminist posts but the whole argument is either contradicting or just moot? Like imagine helping a homeless person who’s had previous issues before whether be with the law or personal, clearly needs help but is reluctant and some person goes around saying “well you helped them against their will!” As if that’s supposed to be some gotcha.
I don’t know it’s just the weirdest argument I’ve seen yet with this movie.
I find it funny that a lot of (Strange) fans are annoyed with people putting the majority if not ALL the blame on Doctor Strange for messing up the spell.
The reason people (we) keep blaming Strange for botching the spell is because we’ve known Strange to still have some arrogance on him when it comes to potentially dangerous situations and it’s clear most of the blame falls upon him.
(To clear this out, this would have to do with the spell itself and not the whole shenanigans with the box)
-Disobeyed the Sorcerer Supreme: in which I believe may mostly have to do with a mix of doing it because he’s too comfortable around Wong, may not fully respect Wong with the title as it’s a technicality, and his want to push himself to help this young kid who got his life messed up unintentionally.
-Strange did NOT explain the spell correctly: Strange said where they were going to do it and what it would mostly do, but did NOT talk to Peter about the consequences in detail if it were to go awry. He also didn’t ask him questions to be sure if that’s what he really wanted or other potential options. He knows this is a serious spell that deals with the fabric of space and time, PETER doesn’t or at least doesn’t understand it the way Strange does. The first time he noticed Peter messing with his concentration to make the spell, he should have STOPPED. I don’t know about you guys, but that will seem like the responsible thing to do if you’re a powerful sorcerer NOT blame a 17 year old teen who clearly doesn’t understand the severity of the spell in the making.
-The movie even tells you this: The movie tells us this by having MJ make it a point that at the end of the day it was HIS spell and HE is the sorcerer. Strange being frustrated and blaming the spell being botched “by Peter” is an arrogant cop out. Peter obviously feels responsible and decides to be responsible because later on he decides to help the villains and restrain Strange from returning them home. At that point, Strange is not much at fault as he did at least try to take responsibility by providing a solution.
I really don’t get why people are so divided by this. I would think that people wouldn’t actually blame Peter, the high school teen who is not the adult and a sorcerer. Strange maintaining to do a spell when Peter is babbling and clearly interrupting him was irresponsible but then again we are talking about Strange here. He may be a powerful sorcerer but at the end of the day he’s a human and he still has leftover arrogance from his surgeon days. Which is all the more reasons to appreciate his character as he’s not a “perfect for the people” hero. He’s realistic.
We’re divided because what you said is wrong.
It is shown in the movie that when Stephen is not distracted the spell is perfectly safe and works wonderfully well.
I’ve already written a post about this but in short, yes he should have explained the whole spell to Peter before starting. And yes, the fact that he didn’t was a mistake on his part, but can we please stop treating Peter like a teenager who doesn’t know how to behave? Way to infantilize him, people. He’s not a 2 year old, Peter is around what, 20yo? (depending on whether or not we count the 5 years of the snap). If he’s told not to interrupt then he shouldn’t do it.
I find it hilarious that you say Stephen not stopping the spell while he’s being interrupted was irresponsible instead of, dunno, saying Peter interrupting him was what’s wrong there?
Then you claim Stephen disobeyed Wong. When? The scene in the trailer where Wong tells him not to cast the spellis NOT in the movie. That scene was a deliberate misdirection, what happens in the movie is this: Peter asks Stephen to go back in time, he tells him he would never do it but even if he wanted to he doesn’t have the Time Stone, then Wong says something that reminds Stephen of a spell, Stephen mentions it and ASKS WONG FOR PERMISSION. He doesn’t cast the spell behind his back, he doesn’t “disobey” him at any point. He asks for permission, Wong reluctantly grants it but tells him to keep him out of it.
Then to claim he could have stopped the spell once he had started it is pure speculation, we don’t know if he can do that.
And “Peter wants to help the villains” sure, at the risk of fucking up the multiverse. It blows my mind that some of you are so keen on seeing things from Peter’s perspective that you completely forget there’s a bigger picture here. We’re not shown in the movie if other people die but if they do, whose fault is that? What is so important about saving these particular people when the risk is causing massive chaos in the multiverse?
No wonder Peter never thinks of that but Stephen has to, it’s quite literally his job to think of it.
And it also blows my mind that you claim Peter tries to be responsible because he decides to help the villains… that’s the exact opposite of taking responsibility. Look at how that went. They didn’t want to be healed, they were cured against their will after destroying Happy’s place and the Statue of Liberty. All that damage could have been avoided if Peter hadn’t taken them out of the Sanctum. Funny how I don’t see many people talking about that, why didn’t Peter keep them in there? He willingly got them out from a place where they were safe and they couldn’t hurt anyone. Where’s the responsibility for that?
And the arrogance argument is well… more of the same. No matter what he does he’s told he’s still the same guy from the hospital which is laughable because he’s completely different but then again you have to pay attention to him and the movies he’s been in before this one and I’m not sure many people have actually watched them or paid attention to him before NWH and it shows.
No, we’re not defending him because we think he’s perfect. No, we’re not coddling him and acting like everything he does is right and he makes no mistakes (I swear I feel like I keep using the same arguments as when I’m talking about Loki, how is that possible?!!) but if you want to blame him for something then blame him for what he’s done, we sure know he has made tons of mistakes in the past and he still has a lot to learn. That does not mean you get to blame him for things he didn’t do or for the wrongdoings from others.
Sigh
“It is shown in the movie that when Stephen is not distracted the spell is perfectly safe and works wonderfully well.”
Yeah at the end when Peter isn’t babbling and adding exceptions to the point Strange points it out because it is DISTRACTING.
“but can we please stop treating Peter like a teenager who doesn’t know how to behave? Way to infantilize him, people.”
infantilizing would be “aww poor baby he just wanted to help his friends and family he didn’t do anything wrong he’s a baby”
He’s a teenager. He may be incredibly smart but teenagers are growing, hormonal humans who are still developing mentally and do not have enough emotional intelligence. People are not excepting Peter from the blame. What he wanted, while fair because he wants those he cares about safe, it’s still in itself selfish. Normal for a teenager to want their life back with conveniences. But who’s the adult here? Matter of fact, who’s the adult sorcerer?
“He’s not a 2 year old, Peter is around what, 20yo? (depending on whether or not we count the 5 years of the snap).”
Why would you-what was honestly the point of saying this? Of course those five years don’t count. He didn’t come back five years older, did he? Would you say a 13 year old who blipped back is actually 18? No of course not because technically those people were dead.
“If he’s told not to interrupt then he shouldn’t do it.”
If a teenager is disobeying you and distracting while you’re trying to conjure a powerful reality bending spell, why would you keep going? I’ve taught children, tweens and teenagers. A known tactic used by teachers when a class is rowdy and won’t shut up it to actually stop what you’re doing. Eventually they will catch up and stop as well. Then comes the discipline.
Strange got too confident until Peter trying to add exceptions messed with his concentration and the spell itself, making it go haywire.
“I find it hilarious that you say Stephen not stopping the spell while he’s being interrupted was irresponsible instead of, dunno, saying Peter interrupting him was what’s wrong there?”
who’stheadult?Who is the sorcerer?Why do you think Peter kept interrupting him anyways? Oh that’s right, you said it yourself here:
“yes he should have explained the whole spell to Peter before starting. And yes, the fact that he didn’t was a mistake on his part,”
“Then you claim Stephen disobeyed Wong. When? The scene in the trailer where Wong tells him not to cast the spell is NOT in the movie.”
I know you know I watched the movie.
Strange don’t cast that spell! It’s too dangerous.
Leave me out of it.
Wong warned him. And was even surprised (and dare I say annoyed) that Strange has done this behind his back before. Wong saying to leave him out of it is basically saying “I told you not to do it; if something happens it’ll be your fault and your problem only”. If you’re warned by a superior to not do a specific action that’ll have consequences, what do you think that is called? It’s disobeying.
“Then to claim he could have stopped the spell once he had started it is pure speculation, we don’t know if he can do that.”
He kept editing the spell by restarting it and eventually contained it. What makes you think he can’t ? But sure fine let’s keep this hanging in the air.
“And “Peter wants to help the villains” sure, at the risk of fucking up the multiverse. It blows my mind that some of you are so keen on seeing things from Peter’s perspective that you completely forget there’s a bigger picture here. We’re not shown in the movie if other people die but if they do, whose fault is that? What is so important about saving these particular people when the risk is causing massive chaos in the multiverse?”
Okay this is definitely after the spell, which I specifically made it a point to say that after the whole ordeal with the spell, Peter is definitely at equal fault.
The whole point of the characterization of Peter/Spiderman is being a hero for the people, doing anything he can to save people, at a (usually high) cost of course. Nothing he does is without consequences and we clearly see that with Aunt May and his friends. I mean this is the whole premise of the movie.
Also the multiverse wouldn’t have been at risk in the first place if Strange didn’t cast that spell…which he was warned about.
BUT I’ll make it a point to say that both Strange and Peter are not wrong in their philosophies. What Strange wanted to do was equally valid.
“No wonder Peter never thinks of that but Stephen has to, it’s quite literally his job to think of it.”
Welp he should have made it a point to expand this especially when he mentioned and confirmed to Peter that the multiverse exist without any further context but I digress ♀️
“And it also blows my mind that you claim Peter tries to be responsible because he decides to help the villains… that’s the exact opposite of taking responsibility.”
He starts to immediately go after the problem (said to do so by Strange). His 17 year old brain decided to be a savior after he realized different versions of him (without enough context) were about to kill them, a concept he disagrees about. While it was not what Strange wanted to do, Peter did feel responsible and went to do what HE believed to be the responsible and right thing to do. Kinda the point of him and Strange clashing.
“They didn’t want to be healed, they were cured against their will after destroying Happy’s place and the Statue of Liberty”
Oh no. I know what you’re trying to do here and that is definitely NOT going to fly with me.
Their reluctance to Peter was valid because they were in a place that wasn’t their own. They don’t trust him and not just because he’s Spiderman. They were on high guard. But these people, ordinary people, screwed over by circumstances (some outside of their control) were more than grateful to be cured and helped. Especially Otto. Did we watch the same movie? Like do you seriously want to take Peter’s good deed into an issue about consent?? Especially since the other regretful Peters have had thoughts linger about curing/helping them for years??
And boohoo the Statue of Liberty was destroyed and Happy’s condominium. This is a moot point because while it is something valid to worry about, is not the first time the world has had catastrophic consequences of buildings and monuments collapsing. Especially New York lol
“All that damage could have been avoided if Peter hadn’t taken them out of the Sanctum. Funny how I don’t see many people talking about that, why didn’t Peter keep them in there? He willingly got them out from a place where they were safe and they couldn’t hurt anyone. Where’s the responsibility for that?”
Peter’s gullible and ignorant good deed came with a heavy price. But let’s not also forget that he mainly took Aunt May’s advice, his adult mother figure, with the intentions to help them in a (his) safe place…and also because the majority of the technology to help them was in that safe place. So um yeah.
“And the arrogance argument is well… more of the same. No matter what he does he’s told he’s still the same guy from the hospital which is laughable because he’s completely different but then again you have to pay attention to him and the movies he’s been in before this one and I’m not sure many people have actually watched them or paid attention to him before NWH and it shows.”
Strange continues to conjure a spell while being distracted.
Strange disobeyed the Ancient One when told not to break an absolute point in time.
Uatu roasted him for this exact reason.
There’s more to list but I made it a point that Strange’s arrogance in his case it’s good (characterization) because it makes him a morally gray hero. He has his quirks and it works. But let’s not act like he doesn’t have leftover arrogance.
I mean he basically told Ned (a chubby guy) that he has diabetes just because Ned excitedly suggested he might have magic in his lineage. (the tingling sensation in the hands is a known symptom of diabetes)
“but if you want to blame him for something then blame him for what he’s done”
I…did. Yup that’s the point of the OP.
“(To clear this out, this would have to do with the spell itself and not the whole shenanigans with the box)”
“That does not mean you get to blame him for things he didn’t do or for the wrongdoings from others.”
Do not accuse me of something I definitely didn’t do.
Sometimes I would agree with you but these takes were not it. You took the bias you have for Doctor Strange (I mean it’s fine we all have some) but amped to 20 and tried to wrap points that weren’t even said or are moot.
I find it funny that a lot of (Strange) fans are annoyed with people putting the majority if not ALL the blame on Doctor Strange for messing up the spell.
The reason people (we) keep blaming Strange for botching the spell is because we’ve known Strange to still have some arrogance on him when it comes to potentially dangerous situations and it’s clear most of the blame falls upon him.
(To clear this out, this would have to do with the spell itself and not the whole shenanigans with the box)
-Disobeyed the Sorcerer Supreme: in which I believe may mostly have to do with a mix of doing it because he’s too comfortable around Wong, may not fully respect Wong with the title as it’s a technicality, and his want to push himself to help this young kid who got his life messed up unintentionally.
-Strange did NOT explain the spell correctly: Strange said where they were going to do it and what it would mostly do, but did NOT talk to Peter about the consequences in detail if it were to go awry. He also didn’t ask him questions to be sure if that’s what he really wanted or other potential options. He knows this is a serious spell that deals with the fabric of space and time, PETER doesn’t or at least doesn’t understand it the way Strange does. The first time he noticed Peter messing with his concentration to make the spell, he should have STOPPED. I don’t know about you guys, but that will seem like the responsible thing to do if you’re a powerful sorcerer NOT blame a 17 year old teen who clearly doesn’t understand the severity of the spell in the making.
-The movie even tells you this: The movie tells us this by having MJ make it a point that at the end of the day it was HIS spell and HE is the sorcerer. Strange being frustrated and blaming the spell being botched “by Peter” is an arrogant cop out. Peter obviously feels responsible and decides to be responsible because later on he decides to help the villains and restrain Strange from returning them home. At that point, Strange is not much at fault as he did at least try to take responsibility by providing a solution.
I really don’t get why people are so divided by this. I would think that people wouldn’t actually blame Peter, the high school teen who is not the adult and a sorcerer. Strange maintaining to do a spell when Peter is babbling and clearly interrupting him was irresponsible but then again we are talking about Strange here. He may be a powerful sorcerer but at the end of the day he’s a human and he still has leftover arrogance from his surgeon days. Which is all the more reasons to appreciate his character as he’s not a “perfect for the people” hero. He’s realistic.
Loki vs Spiderman No Way Home on tackling the Multiverse
This post will contain spoilers for Spiderman NWH!
I’m gonna need Feige to entrust certain writers on themes that are gonna be touched upon in movies later on to be used in their series. Let me explain.
Spider-Man No Way Home really displayed how BAD and HORRENDOUS the Loki show actually is. Like, plot and writing wise, the Loki show has really, really aged badly. So I’m sitting here wondering, since technically NWH explores the concept of variants (a lot better than a whole ass show was supposed to), why didn’t the writers of NWH dealt with the series instead of giving it to an inexperienced writer/director? Genuine question.
NWH made the concept of the multiverse a lot more digestible than a series was supposed to in a way where if you didn’t watch What if ? or Loki (especially), you could understand it…because in this case Doctor Strange admitted that it’s a concept that he still doesn’t know a lot about. So it makes the audience not only equally curious but entangles them to learn about it at the same time with them. But as someone who DID watch Loki, I can tell the writer(s) has some really odd ideas on handling the concept of multiverses and variants.
What I loved about NWH concept of multiverse is that there was no “sacred timeline”. Loki’s idea of Kang keeping a sacred timeline is very flawed simply because to keep it in one “line”, there shouldn’t have been any variant drastically different from our Loki to the point they posed a risk of tampering with Kang’s desires of keeping a “sacred timeline” (examples like Boastful Loki, Sylvie, Alligator Loki etc). Branches that come from that sacred timeline should be mostly the same except a few environmental changes/decisions where it causes the flow of time to expand. I reiterate this because the Loki show contradicts itself. TVA would go as far as prune someone for being late on their way to work; we’ve seen them arrest normal civilians who you could tell were scared and confused.
NWH concept of the multiverse is very matter of factly and unified; the Peters were variants of each other [which by the way, this concept of the Peters being variants makes a LOT more sense]that are in a way technically not related by DNA but are in essence still the same person, just not the same individual since they come from DIFFERENT universes and NOT a BRANCH of the SAME UNIVERSE like Loki does. Their universal destinies were meant to be as Spidermen/Peter Parker. And it was done in less than three hours. In which I feel like that’s what the Loki series tried to do; to make the Lokis feel like their own person/treat the name as if a title of some sort but they of course failed in that aspect.
When you compared all that said with a lame, fascist organization, that apparently previously captured Thanos and vampires before but was easily defeated by being bitten by an eight year old Asgardian, made by a (black ) dictator pruning branches of the same timeline, but then have said characters contradict the existing ways the multiverse works in your show then… especially when you have a writer and director going back and forth not knowing what to exactly describe Sylvie as…
Oh and speaking of Sylvie, so apparently Marvel CAN do siblings of the same variant relationships but it couldn’t be done with Loki and Sylvie ? I mean they kinda had the same amount of time together. They could have fallen in love (since apparently it can take less than 12 hours). Ah wait ? You say the are MALE? Wait one of them in underage ? No wait pause. Is it because they are loners and never had siblings so they related to each other more easily making the dynamic a lot more wholesome? Huh would you look at that. No self cest. Not even a hint. Interesting….
My expectations on dealing with the multiverse shenanigans are really high now. Especially with the knowledge that it CAN be done well. I don’t know how they’re going to go forward with Multiverse of Madness since Micheal Waldron, yes THE Micheal Waldron from the LOKI show I kept shitting on is the HEADWRITER. I’m also curious on how they are going to handle season two.
So, as I’m sure all of my followers know, I was, and still am, a huge IronDad fan. And with the most recent Spider-Man movie out, all I want is an AU where Tony is alive and involved in the events of the movie or, better yet, involved in the aftermathof the movie.
I need the angst of Tony forgetting Peter right freaking now. And, of course, I need some comfort for the hurt where they fix it. But I just need more IronDad content.
honestly i think my funniest thought is the image of someone sitting in the theater for spiderman no way home opening night, seeing a blind lawyer on screen and everyone cheering for them, but not understanding why the fuck everyone is so excited for this random blind guy because they haven’t watched the netflix shows and only watched the movies
All of us Irondad lovers know that Tony graduated in MIT? And we all collectively write Peter as borrowing Tony’s MIT hoodie all the time. Anyways, when Peter got denied from MIT after like wanting to follow in Tony’s footsteps and be all smart and stuff, that broke my Irondad-loving heart.
That’s all I’ll say. If someone else who has seen NWH could scream at me in DMs that would be appreciated
Summary: Dr Strange made everyone forget about Peter Parker. But somehow the spell didn’t work on you.
From one moment to another, everyone just forgot.
Out of nowhere Peter’s whole existence became non-existent. When you asked Ned, all he said was “Who’s Peter Parker?”
No one bugged, bullied or tormented you anymore is school. The fact that Peter was missing wasn’t a good sign either.
You had a feeling he was in trouble. For the last couple of days, he didn’t text or call you, even if you knew what happened to May, you knew better than to press him.
You had work that day, in the book store. You heard the familiar bells as someone entered.
It was Peter.
“Hi. My name is Peter Parker.” he said smiling.
“What did you do?” you asked and he looked at you like you had two heads.
“You didn’t forget?” asked Peter as he rushed over to you. And you hugged him.
“No. But the whole word did. What happened Peter? Why does no one know who Peter Parker is?”
Peter explained everything to you. And although you understood his reasoning, you were a bit angry at him for messing with everyone’s minds.
Then one thing hit you.
“B-But then why didn’t I forget?”
But you were more focused on Peter.
You knew that it took a toll on him when his identity got out. You knew he was in a constant battle of bullies, college, the media and even the police.
But to get a sorcerer to make others forget… was another level. And the multiverse? What did that mean?
But was most important now, is that you had your Peter back.
“How can you still remember, Y/N?” asked Peter, the question was more towards the doctor than towards you.
“Must be love.” You came up with the conclusion, half joking as you laughed a little.
Both Peter looked at you, eyes wide.
Even though the two of you were dating since London, you never said the ‘L’ word to one another.
You just looked at him.
“What?”
“Y-You said…”
“I know what I said dork. I love you. And next time, maybe you should have called me, I was devastated when I heard what happened with May, but I couldn’t find you anywhere.”
“I’m sorry Y/N. I should have called you but with everything going on and May and then Dr Strange and then the spell and I had to move.” he was mumbling as he looked down, but you cupped his face and kissed him.
“You should be. Make it up to me after work maybe? If you don’t have superhero stuff to do.”
“Sure! YES! Okay, I have an apartment, come over!” he got all excited as he started to plan everything in his mind. Flowers, dinner, a movie and chocolate.
“Y/N! GET BACK TO WORK.” you both heard your boss yell.
“I’ll meet you later, Tiger.” you kissed him on the lips one last time.
Peter was about to leave before he turned back, looking at you behind the cashier.
My current head-stories/hopes for the next movie/a fanfic or two are as follows:
While Peter is busy attending to his self flagellation MJ and Ned are *figuring it out*. So one day when Peter is getting his ass kicked, or maybe things are going very very wrong with Venom and everyone thinks Spidey is evil. So not only is Peter alone but things are getting scary… His People have figured it out and know Peter needs *help*. So basically in his most desperate hour of need they show up for him. And they call him Peter.
That Matt Murdock scene in NWH is actually hilarious. Because right after everyone had to be freaking out and just so confused. But Matt is just trying to act like that did not just happen. He’s just trying to bury the moment in legal jargon, hoping they’ll just forget. His departure was probably way more awkward than anyone had planned. If he told Foggy the two likely engaged in a debate about the ethics of risking a superhuman getting hit in the face with a brick if said superhuman is only a kid.
Also, the fact that Peter didn’t pursue this because this actually wasn’tthe weirdest thing to happen to him that week.
![NO WAY HOME SPOILERSI…[SOBS]](https://64.media.tumblr.com/28a63addcd40f497062e1e061a898eec/cc34801bf88b658d-01/s1280x1920/cfb4d479d0d96f9347198c1366b9c7ecea449551.gif "NO WAY HOME SPOILERSI…[SOBS]")
![NO WAY HOME SPOILERSI…[SOBS]](https://64.media.tumblr.com/d8b56da6e2a5c811496251cc97a95384/cc34801bf88b658d-6d/s1280x1920/81546d99d74c736aa11aa9913e6fc7e6f68a3d02.gif "NO WAY HOME SPOILERSI…[SOBS]")
