Please note that some of these quotes no longer have their original source or otherwise come secondhand, and while I consider them to be reliable, you may take them with a fine pinch of salt.
Highlights:
“I don’t know if Marcone is a villain or an anti-hero.”
“Marcone was an accident. He started off as kind of a throwaway gangster guy. And then I decided, well, his opening was too cool to leave him like that.”
“He’s the guy that looks at Dresden like the guy that looks at the drunken sheriff in town.”
“He’s born in the wrong time. If he’d been born five hundred years earlier, he’d be an ideal leadership-type. They’d have pegged him for officer school.“
“He’s going to accomplish what he means to accomplish, and if he has to murder half the world to get there, so be it. He’ll do it humanely and efficiently, but he’ll do it.”
“He’s not going to be giving anyone True Love shields from the Whites any time soon.”
“The character that’s really interesting is the ‘Mirror Mirror’ universe Marcone.“
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WizardsHarry.com interview (April 2001(?)*)
Q: How do you come up with the characters for your books?
Callous as it sounds, mostly it depends on what I need them to do in the story. :) I hear a lot of talk about plot-driven books versus character-driven books, but my own impression on the subject leans more towards the idea that plot and character cannot be usefully separated from one another. But from the aspect of a writer who has a deadline and who needs to be able to plan and reliably produce a reasonably good story, I tend to make things easy on myself whenever I can. I figure out what I need a character to do in my story, and then I build a character who would do it.
I needed someone to provide both threat, motivation, and distraction for Harry in "Storm Front,” for example, and got two characters who could do those jobs. John Marcone got to show up as the negative criminal element in the story, the human face of lawlessness and crime. Karrin Murphy is his opposite number, representative of the law, society, and order.
Neither one of them seems to do much for Harry that doesn’t make his day worse and worse, nine times out of ten, but no one’s perfect. :)
(*I’m actually not sure of the interview’s original publication date. April 2001 is merely the earliest archived version of of the page on Wayback Machine.)
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Jim Butcher Forums (now Paranet Online) (April 2009)
The core concept for Murphy was strongly influenced by Elisa Masa, yes. But Susan got her physical appearance. :)
Ditto with Xanatos and Marcone, although in that case, Morgan got his physical appearance.
It’s from the perspective of John Marcone, and sort of shows you what he’s doing behind the scenes. And if you read the short story and then go and read the story that’s in Changes in Burger King, it has two totally different meanings.
Q: I read the short story from Marcone’s point of view, “Even Hand,” and I noticed that John Marcone is not his real name. Is that going to be significant?
Sure is if somebody tries to cast a spell at him using the name “John Marcone”! That’ll be a big deal. But we’ll have to see how that works out. Actually, the character that’s really interesting is the Mirror Mirror universe Marcone, and we’ll get to him in a few books.
Q: You have a big supporting cast of antagonists in the Dresden Files, are there any you prefer writing over others?
(Jim first discusses Nicodemus and Lara.)
Marcone is also one of my favorites. Being able to write the short story Even Hand from his viewpoint was very enlightening for me. Because I had never really been entirely certain what his take on Dresden was until I actually got in his head and started writing him for a while. And then it’s like, he’s the guy that looks at Dresden, like, you know, the guy that looks at the drunken sheriff in town who’s just like, “I just want the shootouts to stop.” It’s like, “Come on. Yes, you keep wining them but come on, there’s gotta be a better way that brakes fewer windows.” But at the same time he owns the undertaker shop so… (Jim mimes with his hands as if balancing scales)
BittenbyBooks.com online Q&A (August 2011) (Original source not available)
Q: John Marcone has been on the fence for most of the series. Sometimes he does the right thing, sometimes the wrong. Will there be a book where he goes full good guy or bad guy?
I think it’s safe to say that Harry will never get a clear read on Marcone. Sharks aren’t good or evil. They’re /sharks/.
I say this, of course, only because I miss the recently departed Shark Week.
Q: In Small Favor, it seemed like Hendricks was attracted to Gard, but she didn’t reciprocate. And then in “Even Hand” it seemed like she did reciprocate. Are Gard and Hendricks an item now, and if so, how does Marcone feel about it?
Well she doesn’t reciprocate right out in front of everybody. She’s too cool for that.
Marcone doesn’t mind as long as it doesn’t get in the way of the job. When things get in the way of the job, Marcone minds. Otherwise, it’s kind of useful because he can always threaten one of them with the other one. Not that he would, because that’s counterproductive. But there’s leverage.
Plus, he doesn’t want to disrupt Hendricks too much. He’s busy working on his thesis. Yeah, he’s working on his thesis for his English degree. Good ol’ Hendricks, the “dumb guy.”
Q: For the different Big Bads you’ve introduced and whatnot, which one would you find the most terrifying, out of all of them?
Oh, I don’t know. They’re all creepy as hell. The one I’d least like to deal with would be Marcone. That would be… Because he’s just–He’s one of those smart, ruthless, does-not-let-anything-stop-him types. And he’s not too proud to just kill you. He’s never gonna make an Evil Overlord mistake because it would never occur to him to make an Evil Overlord mistake.
Q: Was reading “Even Hand” last night, and was wondering if Marcone’s real name is pertinent and will factor in later.
It won’t factor in later because nobody’s getting it. Marcone is the–as far as the series is concerned–he is themost magic savvy mortal that is running around these days. And he is covering his bases and is very good at it. Marcone is the guy who has read the “Evil Overlord” list and would roll his eyes at why anybody would do such a thing.
[Source(Timestamp: 1:00:25)] (It seems like the episode is no longer available online. IDK if it will pop up anywhere in the future, but I could reupload my copy of it somewhere if anyone wants it.)
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EasterconDysprosium (April 2015)
You get to see most of [the Fomor] during… You get the best glimpse of them during the Marcone short story, which is called “Even Hand,” which is one of my favorite short stories, because God, that is a scary guy, he really is. He’s a scary individual.
The Cinder Spires: The Aeronaut’s Windlass tour - Seattle (October 2015)
Q: In [Skin Game], there’s a quote here… “’So this thief we’re meeting,’ Ascher asked. ‘What’s her story?’” And Dresden says that, “’She used to belong to a gang called the Churchmice. They specialized in robbing churches in Europe’” and “’Nicodemus hired them to swipe the Shroud of Turin for him a few years back.’“ … That’s not true. Marconehired them, so was that a really clever lie by Dresden? That’s what [another person] figured you were doing.
No, was that how it worked out…? They swiped it and Nicodemus double crossed them, Marcone went after the Shroud because he knew it was in play but I don’t think he was the one that hired them, was he?
Yeah, Nicodemus hired them and instead of paying them off he sliced that one guy into ribbons so that his flesh fell off his body in little square chunks in Butters’s first scene.
(Relevant note: Dresden Files beta readers Priscellie and Serack have said that Jim had been notified of this discrepancy during Skin Game’s writing, but Jim went ahead with the Nicodemus-as-buyer version of events anyway. Speculation of the whys and hows are best left to another post.)
The Cinder Spires: The Aeronaut’s Windlass tour - Petaluma (October 2015)
Marcone really bothered me, as a viewpoint character, because he is just so… He’s a predator. He doesn’t feel a lot. He’s got something to get done and he’s remorseless about getting it done, and that’s all there is to it.
Evil League of Evil Writers interview (April 2016)
Marcone is terrifying because he lacks anything like regret. He’s going to accomplish what he means to accomplish, and if he has to murder half the world to get there, so be it. He’ll do it humanely and efficiently, but he’ll do it.
Q: Do you have a favorite character in The Dresden Files?
It’s hard to say. Your asking me about my favorite child. It depends on what I’m doing with them. […] For sheer villainy, Marcone still creeps me out more than anyone. Because he’s not quite as just ruthlessly mechanical as Nicodemus is.
Q: In Codex Alera, you started out the first book with Lord Aquitanus, the ultimate bad guy–or a bad guy of the series, but by the end of the series, he was an antagonist but not a “bad guy.” […] My question is, is there a correlation between him and, say, Johnnie Marcone, where he’s an antagonist, but not necessarily a “bad guy”?
(Jokingly) Well, you’re makin’ some assumptions there.
The thing about Marcone is, him doing his job as an outfit boss, he would be considered kind of a very ideal leader, for much of world history, at least much of Western history. An outfit boss and a medieval baron, there’s a very close correlation between those two guys’ jobs.
Marcone is a real fun character to write, because the problem with Marcone is that he’s too intelligent. Once you stop to think about things for a while, and really stop to analyze things, I think most people realize that the smart thing to do, at least in the long term, in almost every situation is also the morally right thing to do. Because in the long term, it benefits you more to do the morally right thing than to do the selfish thing. Almost every time. And it’s folks that are too short-sighted to understand that who you see running around doing a lot of the selfish stuff. And Marcone is, unfortunately, smart enough to realize, “The smartest thing for me to do is be an upstanding citizen.” (Jim mimes looking around and sighing.) “Here’s my criminal empire. I guess it’s a little late for that. And somebody has to run the crime. So I guess that’s me.”
So Marcone is an interesting character in my head, but he’s born in the wrong time. If he’d been born five hundred years earlier, he’d be an ideal leadership-type. They’d have pegged him for officer school, five hundred years before.
Q: How did Hendricks and Marcone meet? How long have they known each other before Storm Front?
In the service. They were Marines together. Marcone was Hendrick’s sergeant when Hendricks was a Louie.
Q: Is Marcone genuinely fond of Helen Beckitt, or is their "romantic” relationship for him more about keeping a potential threat close or just a weird guilt trip?
Marcone… does not think like most human beings. For him, there’s no reason all of those things can’t be true at the same time. But he’s not going to be giving anyone True Love shields from the Whites any time soon either.
Q: How soon are we gonna see Harry’s next encounter with John Marcone, and how do you think that’s gonna go, given that John has actually played a pretty big role in defending Chicago while Harry wasn’t?
We get more of him in the next book. […] And there’s more to it than that. And Marcone has gotten a lot of respect from people. At this point, I mean Marcone took down Nicodemus Archleone. That’s the kind of stuff that everybody goes, ’Daaamn, kid. Alright!’ That’s sort of been the response from people. But, he’s still, he’s not a very nice guy. But, I really enjoyed reading the story though. In the audiobook, I’m the one that reads Marcone.
Marcone is… I don’t know if Marcone is a villain or an anti-hero. You know? It’s sort of hard to call depending on what kind of story I’m writing, and how he’s connected to it. Although I did enjoy writing Marcone’s viewpoint. I enjoyed reading for it, too.
Oh my god! Why do you ask these questions! … The answer’s obviously: He’s in charge of things all day, I mean, he doesn’t want to do that when he gets home.
(In case you did not watch the source video, I want to really emphasize that both the questioner and Jim are very clearly just joking around here.)
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DragonCon (September 2019)
Marcone was always–I mean I always wrote Marcone… The model I kind of had in my mind for him in the background was just: He was a medieval baron. You know, by the standards of the medieval times, Marcone would have been a highly respected, competent, and just and fair medieval baron, if he ran his barony exactly like he runs the mob in Chicago. So, uh, when I was building him, I used the model of a medieval feudal lord, and what the ideal medieval feudal lord would be behave like.
As far as favorite character (to write) other than Harry, it varies from day to day because of what kind of mood I’m in. If I’m feeling particularly purile and in need of inspiring chaos, it’s Bob. If I need to get things done, it’s Marcone or Mab, you know, one of those characters.
Priscilla: I deliberately shot Marcone so we would see his left side so that I could CG in a tiny little scar on his ear where whatever plastic surgeon had to reattach it after he was kidnapped by the Denarians.
NEEERRRRRRD! YOU ARE A NEERRRD. A HUGE NERD! You CGI’d a scar onto–(Jim shakes his head.)
(Not really a WoJ but I’ll take it as tacit confirmation that Marcone did indeed have his ear reattached or at least replaced with a prosthetic after Small Favor, since the only comment we ever got on it is Marcone describing one ear as “scarred” in “Even Hand,” which didn’t quite rule out the possibility he’d simply kept the gnarled ear as it was.)
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Mike’s Book Reviews interview (December 2020)
Q: Who is your favorite villain to write in the Dresden Files and why is it Nicodemus?
(Jim first discusses Nicodemus and Mab.)
Marcone is probably the most fun to write because he’s the guy who is–He has the limited resources and the naked will against all these creatures of incredible power everywhere.
Q: You know, Death Masks was the one where I really was all in the series, because I felt like Nicodemus could have been the big bad on a season of Buffy, and I stick by that. And now Marcone is just the coolest cat in the world. We all hate him, but we all kind of want to be him.
Yeah, I have so much fun with that character, man. Writing the end of Battle Ground was such a blast.
Q: Who is your favorite not-Harry character you’ve created and how did you envision this character while you were creating them? Please be Marcone.
Marcone was an accident. He started off as kind of a throwaway gangster guy. And then I decided, well, his opening was too cool to leave him like that, because we opened with a soulgaze on Marcone. It’s like, “Okay no, if I’m gonna make this guy a human predator, then he’s going to be a tiger and you will always have to be afraid of him, period. And that meant that he was going to have to grow in proportion to Dresden, otherwise he would not be someone who is scary. So Marcone, as he’s been going, he’s been gathering resources and various abilities to influence the world around him. Even though he can’t do it Dresden’s way, he has the advantage of: He has no limits, or at least very few limits. So off he goes to get things done.
That’s always terribly fun, writing Marcone, because I can stop and think, "Okay, if I was going up against this wizard, how would I manage it? Alright, now let me stop and think.” I’ll go and contact some of my sneaky friends and say, “Alright sneaky guys, how do I do this?” And they’ll be like, “Oh, have him operate this way!“
Q: As a comic book guy, the comparison I always made to those two is, some of the best issues of Superman is when Superman and Lex Luthor have to work together. So whenever you’ve got Harry and Marcone having to work together, and they work really good together, it just puts a smile on my face, I love it.
Yeah that’s a lot of fun to write. Frenemies is the best.
If you know of other specifically Marcone-related WoJs not included here, with sources, excluding discussion on hypothetical casting ideas, please let me know.
If I had a nickel for every orphaned wizard in a fantasy series who primarily uses fire magic and whose backstory involves burning someone to death, having an evil abusive mentor, and falling in love with said mentor’s other student(s) I’d have two nickels. That isn’t a lot but it’s weird that it happened twice right
Dresden Files fandom, I need help! I recently moved to the Chicago area, and in a few weeks my dad is coming to visit me, and we’re doing a big tour of all of the real life Dresden locations. I know McAnally’s is fictional, but I thought it’d be fun to end the night in a Mac’s style pub/tavern. The problem is, I have no clue how to find one. Does anyone have any recommendations?
I talk a lot of shit about Jimothy Butcher and he deserves it but god damn. saying “what if you had the shadow of an immortal being in your head trying to tempt you to Become Something Else, but she didn’t realize that because she was an impression in the clay that was you she would change as you changed? What if at some point you’d both changed so much that she realized that she wasn’t a shadow anymore?” was kinda iconic
We’ve been busy making a duster coat for a Harry Dresden Halloween costume! Once Eliza is back from Wonka’s factory, work on Imogen, Ryne, and Gaia will continue!
Murphy comes back just for the wedding or some time around that timeline, and she gets to confront Dresden about it, and she asks “Do you have feelings for Lara?” And by that time Butcher would have played the whole “oh, she’s a monster with feelings” card and shoved Dresden toward her. And so, we see Dresden hesitate for a second. That would absolutely crush Murphy, because it’d play on all her insecurities or make her go just “oh, fuck this” because she won’t be tolerating this shitty treatment from another man, less of all the one she truly believed was special. And that would draw a wedge between them again, effectively separating them emotionally, which is what Dark!Harry seems to be being pushed toward and why the story wanted to get rid of Murphy. So, we’ll get what we want, Murphy back, though not with Harry.
BUT, Harry will realize what he’s done, how he’s lost her in a completely different way now, and he will realize that he truly wants her. So, he will finally, actively, try to win her love/redeem himself with her/show her that he really does care.
If Harry could feel all the wounds and the pain of the people under his banner in the night of Battle Ground, did they get to feel his pain in return? And you know what pain I’m talking about here. It would also explain part of the reason why people didn’t want to even go close to him. Maybe he was thinking they were afraid, but maybe they just knew how fucking raw he had felt, and the size of the real pain he endured that night. It wouldn’t be weird for him to misinterpret things.
@bluestockingbaby That’s an interesting point, I didn’t think about it that way, I just interpreted that the people following his banner were people finding in Harry a figure behind which they could gather and rally and canalize their own feelings of rage and stuff. Though, one does have to wonder how much of that was Mab’s influence, but I didn’t read it as Harry having an influence on them directly. Interesting.
It is true that Harry spends most of the books after Changes thinking about how things directly affect him and how everything fits or doesn’t into his own little selfish worldview and story, which is my gripe with the treatment of the way in which his romance with Murph finally comes to pass. I think he loved her, just not well enough, he took way more than he gave and it cost her her life in a way. And what pisses me off about Murph’s death is that it’s probably going to be used to get Harry to learn the lesson that he needs to be more thoughtful about others.
So, I sometimes venture into other forums where there’s talk about The Dresden Files, and sometimes I’d see a comment about Murphy that make me go “what books were you reading?” because the take seems so wrong. And then (ignoring the ill-intentioned comments that come from hateful or misogynistic places) sometimes I’d see comments about how we never knew much about her or how she’s difficult to understand or empathize with. And I’m sitting here wondering, you know, because I personally don’t think I understand any other character as well I as I do get her.
So, I wanted to ask to my readers, those of you who’ve been following my fics, how accurate do you think I am with my interpretation of Murphy? Is there a fic in particular or a moment in one of my fics where you went like “Oh, wow, that’s so Murphy”. I don’t suppose I always portray her exactly as she is 100% of the time, and maybe I don’t “get her” as well as I think, but I try and I’d like to hear your opinions.
Like, if someone else, not Butcher, were in charge of the character for a short series or something, would you trust me to write her in canon?
Not looking for praise or anything, just genuinely curious.
So, I’d appreciate your replies.
Also, if you want to share, what do you think is something that you think you totally get about Murphy that don’t see addressed often in the fandom? Or what do you see often that think that’s totally the wrong interpretation?
@aurelianpen@phygers Oh, thank you! I really appreciate that, and I’m really happy that you guys feel happy with what you read from me!
@anguisette90 I think you’re probably right about this, the short stories, the ones that came out first, in Side Jobs, were full of fun little details about the main cast that I really appreciate. And Aftermath was really fantastic. I resent Jim for giving us three Molly POV stories and just one Murphy POV story, tbh. Also, thank you so much! I gotta say, sometimes I do feel like pushing Jim aside and tell him “stop messing with my Murphy!” *shake fists*
@harpyreborn Thank you! I found Murphy so easy to relate tbh, and was mainly what made me keep reading the first books. I agree, she is such an important character in the story that she should have gotten more pages. Heck, she should have her own little short series, like 3-5 short stories from her POV, imo.
If Harry could feel all the wounds and the pain of the people under his banner in the night of Battle Ground, did they get to feel his pain in return? And you know what pain I’m talking about here. It would also explain part of the reason why people didn’t want to even go close to him. Maybe he was thinking they were afraid, but maybe they just knew how fucking raw he had felt, and the size of the real pain he endured that night. It wouldn’t be weird for him to misinterpret things.
So, I sometimes venture into other forums where there’s talk about The Dresden Files, and sometimes I’d see a comment about Murphy that make me go “what books were you reading?” because the take seems so wrong. And then (ignoring the ill-intentioned comments that come from hateful or misogynistic places) sometimes I’d see comments about how we never knew much about her or how she’s difficult to understand or empathize with. And I’m sitting here wondering, you know, because I personally don’t think I understand any other character as well I as I do get her.
So, I wanted to ask to my readers, those of you who’ve been following my fics, how accurate do you think I am with my interpretation of Murphy? Is there a fic in particular or a moment in one of my fics where you went like “Oh, wow, that’s so Murphy”. I don’t suppose I always portray her exactly as she is 100% of the time, and maybe I don’t “get her” as well as I think, but I try and I’d like to hear your opinions.
Like, if someone else, not Butcher, were in charge of the character for a short series or something, would you trust me to write her in canon?
Not looking for praise or anything, just genuinely curious.
So, I’d appreciate your replies.
Also, if you want to share, what do you think is something that you think you totally get about Murphy that don’t see addressed often in the fandom? Or what do you see often that think that’s totally the wrong interpretation?
““Is this where you tell me we need to be friends?” I asked. She blinked and looked up at me. She touched my face with her fingertips. “Harry, we’re … We went past that a long time ago. I don’t know if we can … if we should be lovers. But I’m your friend. Your ally. I’ve seen what you want, and what you’re willing to sacrifice to make it happen.” She took one of my hands between hers, pressing hard. “I feel lost since they fired me. I don’t know what I’m meant to do or who I ought to be. But what I do know is that I’ve got your back. Always.” Tears fell from her blue eyes. “So goddammit, don’t you start taking the highway to Hell. Because I’m going to be right there with you. All the way.” I couldn’t see her face after that. I felt her head underneath my chin, and I put my arms around her. We sat together like that for a while.” “Things are going to get bad,” I said quietly. “I don’t know how or when, exactly. But there’s a storm coming. Being near me isn’t going to be … sane.” “Let’s just agree that I’m not all the way together, and save us both some time arguing,” she said. “Always, Harry. I’m there. End of story.” “Okay,” I said. “One condition.” “What?” “That’s not the end of the story,” I said. “I mean, maybe neither one of us is ready. But we could be, one day. And maybe we will be.” “Optimistic idiot,” she said, but I could hear the smile. “And if we get to that place,” I said, “you don’t chicken out. You don’t run away, no matter how it looks to you. We set course for the fucking iceberg, full speed ahead.””
— Cold Days - The Dresden Files, by Jim Butcher
I wonder what does it say about me that I think this is a great moment between them, heartbreaking but honest, and sweet, but I can’t stop thinking while reading it that Harry was naked under the blanket, so that was a barechested hug he got Murphy then, right? Sneaky Murphy, coping a feel there. lol
“Someone close to him. Someone who would know many of his secrets. Someone who would have a good reason to want to hurt him. A lot of men talk to the women they sleep with. That’s always been true. And it would give you a really good reason to get close to him.”
My mother’s boyfriend has a Harley that looks identical to the way Murphy’s bike is described and drawn in the series. His bike, is 2,000 pounds, roughly. When he crashed it, it required three men to pick it up.
Listen, Murphy is very strong, but I don’t think she’s “I can lift an 2,000 pound bike all by myself strong” unless she has secretly been wonder women this whole time.
Just as a reminder to those who like to submit posts, please limit the number of submissions you submit at once as a courtesy to others. We would greatly appreciate it. Please remember to add a source as well.
Harry: *Mixing in a large pot in front of the grey cloak students*♪ You put the Peeps in the chili pot ♪ ♪ And eat them both up ♪ ♪ You put the Peeps in the chili pot ♪ ♪ And add the M&Ms ♪ ♪ You put the Peeps in the chili pot ♪ ♪ And it makes it taste bad ♪
Harry: *clears throat* I’m gonna eat all this chili… and/or die trying. Anyone want any? I’m just gonna put it right down here. Come on. Dip your paws in my chili. Scoop your little mittens right in the stew.
Student: Mr. Dresden, I can see that you’re going through something, but exams are next week, so can you teach us anything?
Harry: All right, nerd. You want to learn something? I’ll teach you something. I’m gonna teach you the meaning of life. How do you like them apples? Now, over the last , years, Western philosophers have formed three main theories on how to live an ethical life. Now, first off, there’s virtue ethics. Aristotle believed that there were certain virtues of mind and character, like courage or generosity, and you should try to develop yourself in accordance with those virtues.
Harry: Next, there’s consequentialism. The basis for judgment about whether something is right or wrong stems from the consequences of that action. How much utility, or good, did it accomplish versus how much pain, or bad. And finally, there’s deontology, the school of thought that there are strict rules and duties that everyone must adhere to in a functioning society. Being ethical is simply identifying and obeying those duties and following those rules. But here’s the thing, my little chili babies, all three of those theories are hot, stinky cat dookie. The true meaning of life, the actual ethical system that you should all follow is nihilism. The world is empty. There is no point to anything, and you’re just gonna die. So do whatever. And now I’m gonna eat my marshmallow-candy chili in silence, and you all can jump up your own butts.
Student: Is that gonna be on the test?
Harry: Yes. And, no. And you all get As or Fs. And there is no test. And you all failed it, and you all got As. Who cares? Good-bye. - *students murmuring*- Good-byyyyye.
