everyone had split off to talk to in smaller groups about specific parts of the mission, Thor’s eyes often went to where you stood with Wanda and Bruce. which is when he noticed that he wasn’t the only one looking.
many of the other guys were casually looking at you at different intervals. it set Thor’s teeth on edge immediately, however, he couldn't blame the others, you were smart, beautiful, kind… exactly what he’d expect from the daughter of Athena.
it was settled then, Thor would have to ask you out first, that couldn’t be too hard, could it?
“He turned his head but couldn’t see Steve, and his voice sounded still far away. (…) If Loki leaped down now, the waters would swallow him before the soldier could discover him.”
Under Thor’s delusions of grandeur, it’s not about taking revenge on all Asgardians for genuine mistreatment. Thor’s narcissism demands that Loki’s vengeance be about punishing him specifically, hence attacking his new pet realm. Remember when Loki goaded Thor during their fight in Thor (2011) by saying he was going to “pay Jane a visit”?
What really gets me is in that first conversation in The Avengers, Thor seems to have an inkling that Loki’s not acting on his own behalf. “Who controls the would-be king?” he asks. And then he just… drops it and decides everything is about him. I don’t know if he just took Loki’s deflection at face value or what. But you’d think the dude who spent every day for one thousand plus years with Loki would have some concept of how he communicates. For fuck’s sake, Thor. Get over yourself.
We know Loki was mindcontrolled in Avengers. We knew for years.
Lets put aside scene with the obvious fact that Loki is just a puppet and he is being threatened. Scene i dont understand how can anyone watch and not see he isnt doing this on his own will.
What i dont get to this day, is how Thor says “he is after vengeance and me”.
Ok. He is furious at Thor and scepter is even fuelling this hate.
But. Thor,sweetie, not everything is about you.
Plus. Even if there was truth…why attacking Earth & trying to rule it? What vengeance is here? Because “Earth is under my protection?” I dont see that as a good motivation to hurt Thor & get revenge. I think it would be more logical that if Loki wanted revenge,he would try to hurt people who’ve been hurting him his whole life - Asgardians.
He would attack Asgard. They have been bullying him and mock him cos he wasnt typical asgardian man. And it would be even worse if they knew he was frost giant.
What I am saying is,Loki attacking Earth should have been for Thor another sign Loki isnt being himself.
Out of universe: It’s because they needed to establish to the audience that Loki was acting out of character, but still have Thor fight Loki and not have the protagonists find out about Thanos yet.
If Thor had insisted to the others that there was something abnormal going on with Loki and that he wasn’t being himself, the movie couldn’t have ended with everyone going “fiiiiine, take your brother back home to get incarcerated back there, guess we can’t stop you, but if you take the Tesseract we are keeping the Scepter, deal?”
It would have ended with everyone wanting answers and finding out about the Infinity Stones and Thanos and that would have changed the meta-narrative too fast.
Like, the next movies would have been wildly different, not just Avengers, but the solo movies too, if they were all “oh shit there’s a genocidal alien coming this way”, that would have altered all the other plots and made them less important.
In-universe: Thor is Odin’s Golden Child. He’s copying Odin’s narcissism because that’s what he’s been primed to do for centuries. I suppose we could be surprised that he’s turned out to be a halfway decent person at this point of canon. vOv
Also slipping a bit out-of-universe again, but if Thor had been more insistent on how Loki was behaving strangely, to the point that everyone else in the movie was skeptical, but open to finding out more, while keeping Loki detained to keep him from hurting anyone else again, that would have derailed the dang whole movie in like, the beginning of the second act? There might not have been a Chitauri invasion at all.
tl;dr:The whole plot relied on Loki being the villain and no one questioning that enough to unravel his real motivations and finding out the real power behind his actions.
And Thor is a proto-narcissist in this movie thanks to Odin’s A+ Narcissistic Parenting.
Thor sneaking up on Loki // I just stumbled over this super old thing and decided to slap some filters on it and share it with all you guys out there :)
Do you ever just *clenches fists* think about the fact that Thor and Loki would have actually been such great characters with contrasting character arcs
Thor’s problem is that he is arrogant. This is established in the first Thor movie. Other than that, he is also heavily dependent on Odin for proving his self worth, which is also evident in the first Thor movie (he had a breakdown when he couldn’t lift the hammer). His entire character arc should be about learning to be more humble, actions have consequences, don’t be reckless etc.
Loki, on the other hand, needs to learn to assert himself. It doesn’t seem like it, but the thing is, he’s very adamant on proving himself to be Thor’s equal, yet he is never recognised as such. In The Dark World deleted scene, he conjured up illusions of his greatest fantasies - one where he has Thor’s friends and Thor’s hammer. Think about this - to Loki, being himself is not even enough. His character arc should have been about realising that he is, in fact, enough. He doesn’t and shouldn’t have to measure his own worth by others’ standards. At least, the “assert yourself” should be a part of his character arc.
They are brothers, and their character arcs could have poetically mirrored each other - yet these aspects of their characters are either not developed at all, or suggested and then abandoned at the hands of different directors.
YES. I’ve long had an idea about them also switching positions as troublemaker/responsible brother now that Thor has matured and Loki doesn’t need to restrain Thor and himself.
Fucking hell, this so much. It’s so frustrating how Marvel completely dropped the ball on character continuity for the Thor franchise. I think part of the problem is they didn’t really know what to do with Thor and were too chicken shit to fully commit to the fantasy elements, i.e. “magic is just advanced technology and they’re not really gods”, so they ended up with all this handwavy magic science that they never bothered to explain (and totally nerfed Loki lolsob).
Anyway I feel like the characterization probably suffered because of that, and all of the rewrites and reshoots and stuff. If you have someone write a script and then start making the movie and then have someone else come in and rewrite it then yeah, it’s gonna be a hot damn mess. If you don’t let the damn director edit his own damn movie, it’s gonna be a hot damn mess. It’s probably mostly because of Hiddleston’s genuine love and commitment to his character that Loki’s narrative is as coherent as it is.
I’m pretty sure that some people have pointed it out before, but I’ve never actually seen those posts:
“After. After whatever tortures Fury can concoct, you would appear as a friend. As a balm. And I would cooperate.”
First I’d like to note that Loki doesn’t seem to assume that Thor would go “you can’t torture Loki he’s my brother”. He legit thinks that Thor would let SHIELD torture him.
But more than that… he seems to be projecting. He was referring to the time he spent in captivity, when he was tortured. Cooperate in the sense that “yes I will retrieve the tesseract”.
Re: Loki thinking that Thor would let SHIELD torture him: this reminds me of a post that’s gone around about someone asking Tom about why Loki tries to kill Thor in Thor 1 (apologies l, I can’t remember who originally posted it), and him responding that it was his opinion that Loki thought that Thor would kill him once Thor found out that Loki was a Frost Giant. That fear is made a little more explicit here, and it’s just so, so sad. Especially given that we see Fury talk to Thor about torturing Loki, and Thor reacts with disbelief that they’d even consider it. (there’s an essay here probably about Loki’s expectations about Thor being violent towards him and the fact that Thor rarely meets those expectations but…eh I’ll just explore in fanfiction, I can’t write essays)
Anyway, the way the Nat scene is filmed totallymakes it seem like Loki is projecting. Note his reflection in the glass:
And then we get:
“You lie and kill in the service of liars and killers. You pretend to be separate, to have your own code, something that makes up for the horrors. But they are part of you. And they will never go away.”
It seems clear to me from the cinematography directly preceding these lines that we are absolutely meant to see Loki talking about himselfhere, whether or not he’s aware of it. So much of this scene is about Loki, what he thinks of himself, what’s been done to him, what he’s gone through. Maybe all of it, when you take into account that Nat’s putting on an act the whole time.
t I have this headcanon that part of the reason that Loki agreed to Thanos to invade New York (not that Loki had that much of a choice since he was being tortured) was because he knew that if any of the other Black Order members - or, heck, even Gamora/Nebula, the casualty rate would have been wayhigher. That’s where the “You pretend to be separate, to have your own code, something to make up for the horrors” comes from. There’s a lot of talk about Loki deliberately taking measures to notwin the battle of New York. The way he’s projecting here - maybe he’s trying to convince himself that this is inevitable. He has to carry out the invasion. This way he can lessen the casualties. But at the same time, he’s regretting it. He knows the blood is on his hands (he proceeds to taunt Natasha about the blood in her ledger - also projecting).
“But they are part of you. And they will never go away.” Regarding this statement, I’ve been thinking about the article where Marvel confirms that Loki was being influenced by the scepter. Under normal circumstances, he never would have invaded Earth. (There are fics where Loki falls into the Void only to emerge on Earth instead of Thanos’ hands - and it’s not like Loki’s first thought upon arriving to Earth was to conquer it.) But because of the scepter’s influence, it magnifies Loki’s emotions like rage and vengeance. We never actually know how long Loki was exposed to the scepter. How long did Thanos have it? Was Loki exposed to its influence for a long time even before he initiated the invasion?
Maybe, on some level, Loki knows that the scepter was influencing him somehow. Bringing out his worst emotions. All these people he killed during the invasion - that was on his hands. He was responsible. Everyone else is also holding him responsible too. Didn’t matter that he did this under duress. @magicmastered did a piece on why Loki didn’t tell others he was tortured (typical me forgot the link so…) and one of the reasons cited was that in a warrior culture like Asgard, Loki was the one who would be seen as weak because he wasn’t strong enough to resist the torture. He gave in - his fault. It doesn’t matter that there were external circumstances - being tortured, mind stone’s influence etc. Loki believes that the person who invaded NYC is Loki - it’s who he is, he is a despicable criminal.
“You put a bullet in someone. You’re not you anymore. You’ll never be you again. But then you wake up the next morning and you’re still you. And you realise that was you all along. You just didn’t know.” - HBO Chernobyl
Re: Loki’s assumption that Thor would let SHIELD torture him/Thor and Fury’s conversation, this is how I remember that going (well, paraphrased):
Fury: You think you can make Loki tell us where the Tesseract is?
Thor: He craves vengeance, upon me. There is no pain that would prise this need from him.
Fury: A lot of guys think that, till the pain [stops/starts/i forgot].
Thor: What are you asking me to do?
Fury: I’m asking you what you’re prepared to do.
(Side note: Holy crap, Fury.)
Thor’s reaction seems less “what in the crap?!?!?” and more “it’s not going to work, there’s no point”. I don’t believe Thor would’ve tortured Loki. He’s just not in total disbelief at Fury’s suggestion.
Loki’s expectations of Thor’s violence do make a sort of sense, when you consider that at this point he genuinely believes that Thor threw him off the Bifrost, and Thor didn’t really help matters when his first move upon seeing Loki was to grab him by the neck and drag him out of a plane. And then, right before Tony knocked him out-of-frame, Thor threatened Loki with Mjolnir.
It’s also, I think, an effect of Loki’s depression. He thinks Thor doesn’t care about him, and would take Thor’s rough introduction, the fact that the first thing Thor talked about was the Tesseract, and Thor’s threat as further proof.
And yes, I love that part of the Loki and Nat scene for that reason exactly. He’s projecting so much there. That section you quoted is a direct parallel to his time with Thanos (while also being true of Nat).
YES. Loki blames himself for NY. In his mind, if he was just strong enough, he could’ve held off and not broken. If anything it makes it worse than if he’d just woken up one day and decided to invade Earth and kill a bunch of people. He’d be a murderer but not weak. This way, as he sees it, he’s both.
I’m still making up my mind on what was going on with the invasion. I agree that if any of Thanos’ other people led that invasion there would’ve been a far higher death toll…but I’m also not convinced that they would’ve done the conquering Earth thing in the first place. Thanos’ big thing was getting the Tesseract. Controlling Earth (directly or indirectly) probably wouldn’t have been much of a concern for him.
And I’m just not sure Loki’d care enough at that point, what with the scepter’s influence. Note that up until Thor forced him to really see the destruction, Loki looked like this:
Not exactly “I wish I didn’t have to do this.”
Not consciously, anyway. I can buy that on some level he didn’t want there to be as much of a slaughter as there would’ve been, but I doubt it was part of his conscious decision-making process.
If Loki was sabotaging the invasion consciously, I can see how keeping down the death toll could’ve been a factor…just maybe not one he was himself aware of.
But “you pretend to be separate, to have your own code, something that makes up for the horrors” is definitely coming from somewhere….
…Maybe Thanos was initially planning on doing his usual genocide routine on Earth, because why not and he’s there anyway, but eventually went with having Loki rule it instead. That genocide would have had a death toll in the billions, as opposed to Loki’s and the Chitauri’s total of 155 that we know of (assuming that Nat wasn’t exaggerating and that we put all deaths from the PEGASUS base’s collapse are on Loki).
In that case you might be right…..
It turns out I had more to add.
Loki’s self-blame may be even worse because of his particular role with regards to retrieving the Tesseract.
If Thanos knew about the Tesseract’s location before he acquired Loki, why didn’t he come to Earth earlier? Was there something stopping him? If that’s the case, Loki would’ve been a way around that (since he was able to go to Earth pretty easily). Ergo, if it wasn’t for Loki, Thanos wouldn’t have been able to come for the Tesseract for whatever reason.
If Thanos didn’t know where the Tesseract was before he got Loki…then Loki is most likely how they found out, considering how much the Other thinks of Loki’s knowledge of it. Therefore, if it wasn’t for Loki, Thanos wouldn’t have known to send anyone to Earth.
Either way, that’s even more things that Loki could blame himself for.
So many thoughts, only think I can brain properly right now is:
It is entirely possible that Loki was the one who knew where the Tesseract was, and that Thanos found out from Loki through whatever method – reading his mind? tortured it out of him? Loki offering up that info to his captors as his “cooperation” (to stop the torture)?
Odin was the one who hid the Tesseract on Earth, right? It’s possible that he shared this information with his sons, or if he didn’t, perhaps Loki found out on his own because he is totally the type to sneak around to find out secrets Odin kept.
Part 1 to The Will and The Way — Series masterlist can be found here
Summary: and so the story begins…
Pairing: OC x Thor x Loki (love triangle) (not really in this chapter yet)
Warnings: None
Despite the early hour, Asgard was far from quiet. In fact, the entire city was buzzing with an odd mix of excitement and mourning. King Odin had passed many months ago, but the love for him among his people was strong as ever.
Still, today was a day of great importance. Asgard had been without a proper leader for far too long, the people were ready for the change that was certain to come this morning. Odin had picked up on the habits of Midgardians, and he’d been wise enough to write out what they called a will, ensuring his final wishes were set in stone, unable to be changed at the whim of any one.
He had even had an enchantress come and mark the document with a seal, a binding of its words that could not be tarnished, nor tainted by anything other than her own power.
While some citizens found this practice odd, others did not question it, given Prince Loki’s habit of slipping through the cracks and making choices for the throne on his own. To them, this was a security blanket. To him, it was a massive brick wall in the way.
“Astrid! Wake up! It is time for the royal will to be read, we must hurry.” The young girls roommate urged, pulling her out of bed by her arm, earning loud grumbles from under the covers.
“We are both a part of the royal staff, if we do not show, you know someone will scold us!” The other girl says, begging for her friend to awaken.
“No one will notice our absence. But if you are so worried of such an unlikely occurrence, go on without me.” The covered girl orders, her voice groggy with sleep. For a palace maid, Astrid had never been one for mornings. She preferred nights, where she could watch the stars in peace.
Finally, after a beat of silence, she groaned in what sounded like agony and literally rolled out of the bed, her fiery reddish hair emerging from the blanket oasis she’d been in seconds before.
“Go, go. I will just get dressed and join you.” She insists, her full lips curling into a grin as her friend hesitantly runs off to join the mornings preparations. From what they’d both been told, there would be a grand ball in the name of whichever of the princes “won” everything.
For Astrid, the competition between the two was pointless and frivolous. There were more important issues in the world than who got to call themself king. It should matter more which of them would rule Asgard with a steady and fair hand, not which looked better with a crown and a throne.
To her, the will was merely a reminder of the Kings dramatics with his sons, along with the competitive nature the two of them shared with each other.
“Besides, Prince Thor is the one with the advantage. He always had Odin’s favor really.” She thought to herself as she tied her hair back into a twist, her daily hairstyle of choice.
The only royal Astrid had ever really taken a liking to was Frigga. She had been one of the maids who spent most of their time in her wing of the castle, and she had always been a friendly, kind woman to the staff. There were even a few times that the Queen had offered Astrid and her friends favors, small things to make their jobs easier or to make their free time more enjoyable.
Astrid could remember a handful of times where Frigga had walked through the gardens with her, just to chat with someone outside her circle. Though she was never one of her ladies maids, Astrid might as well have been. The two of them were much closer than she remembered any of the other staff being with anyone, since she hardly counted those that the princes (mostly Thor) schmoozed with or seduced to be “close” to them.
In fact, Astrid had been in the room when Queen Frigga was murdered and she carried that memory with her everyday, every time she walked into the room that she had perished in. Honestly, she was surprised the king continued to use the space, but she knew better than to say anything about it.
As she looked over her plain appearance in the mirror, Astrid wondered what could possibly have the whole kingdom in such a frenzy over papers that no doubt held nothing but Thors name.
She ran down the hallway, worried about being late now that that realization had finally hit and she started a sort of jog, rounding a corner and nearly slamming directly into another.
“Oh! By the norns, I am sorry your highnesses. I should not be running in a palace, it is rude.” She scolds herself, her freckled cheeks going a light pink.
“No apologies necessary, we run through the palace all the time, it is the only way to get around in manageable time.” Thor states with an easy smile, and Astrid laughed tensely, wanting to leave the situation immediately before the harsher brother spoke up and she lost her job.
Still, Loki only eyed her up and down and let out something between a scoff and a sigh before turning and continuing on his way.
Thor gives her a small wave, the swoonworthy smile still glued to his face and making her lose track of thoughts, but he finally turns away and follows his brother, bringing her senses back and sending her racing down the hall once more, her shoes pattering on the shimmering floor loudly as she goes.
——————————————–
“People of Asgard, we have gathered here today for the reading of the will of our beloved King Odin. In this will, we will learn where his assets have been placed and in turn, who the position on the thrown will be passed down to.” A royal official decrees from the balcony of the golden palace.
What seemed to be all of Asgard cheered, but the princes themselves looked less than disinterested. Loki was all but glaring down at the crowd below, staring down every last citizen, his eyes just grazing over a redheaded maid as he looked on, until his eyes reached the figure standing next to him. Thor, the figure in question, was too busy focusing on his hammer to see if it had been chipped or scratched on his way here to care what the man was saying, to which Loki rolled his eyes.
“At least pretend to pay attention brother. They may be your people soon afterall.” Loki hissed through gritted teeth, rolling his eyes again at the aloof nature of his brother.
“Lighten up Loki. It is not as though it would go to anyone else. We are both in the running, this is not a new idea.” Thor says back, leaning against the balcony, finally looking down to eye up the large crowd below.
The crowd consisted of every citizen of Asgard, but it was still an organized group. All the regular people were in the center of it all, guards in the back in case anything dire were to happen, and palace staff at the front so they could be closest to the entrance, quick access to get in and prepare for the nights festivities to come.
Thor’s wandering eyes landed quickly on the same redhead as Loki’s, a small grin growing at the sight of her disinterest matching his own. In a way he felt they were sort of kindred spirits, both seeing this as a boring formality. Either that, or she just didn’t care. Whichever the answer was, Thor found her bored sigh and relaxed posture amusing to say the least.
He quickly moved his gaze from her, noticing other members of the audience for their own specific traits. Thor wasn’t the sly or mischievous brother, but he and Loki did share their keen eyes to detail, something they’d both gotten from Frigga.
Down on the ground, Astrid let out another loud sigh, waiting for it to be over. It wasn’t really that she didn’t want to see who got everything, but with the weight of the ball that came after relying heavily on the maids, she just wanted to go inside and get to work so they could all rest earlier rather than later.
The palace staff was never overworked perse, but in times of glamorous parties, they were the most imperative part of the planning in order for it to go seamlessly. Astrid took pride in the work she did, and she knew plenty other maids who could say the same.
“Enjoy the moment Astrid! It is not every day we see who the next ruler of Asgard will be! soak it in!!” Another young maid named Signe said with a giggle.
“I know I know. I just wish it was closer to the time of the ball so we could have more time to get everything ready.” She groans back, leaning against one of the many fountains surrounding the courtyard.
Her friends collectively rolled their eyes.
“We have put together much more complicated parties than this one. The worst part is hanging the banners, and I am sure some of the guards will help with that.” Her roommate Liv chimes in, making them all, including Astrid, giggle.
Liv was the flirtiest of their bunch, and she had a knack for convincing the guards or butlers or stableboys or pretty much any man to do the harder parts for them. No one complained about it, given that the tasks usually required an annoying amount of time standing and holding things above your head for who knows how long while you waited for someone to grab it and hang it, a task no one would enjoy.
“They are supposed to protect us anyway, now they are just protecting us from overexertion too.” Liv always said with a shrug and a giggle.
Astrid watches up above at the tall balcony, shading her eyes from the bright and warm sun. She stares as if willing the man to continue his proclamation, still waiting for the opportunity to retreat back into the castle.
As if on cue, the papers are picked back up, and he continues on.
“I, King Odin, being of sound mind and body, decree that my worldly possessions, including all monetary and physical assets be distributed as follows” He starts, stopping to turn and give Loki a glare when he scoffs at the use of Midgardian languages and practices. Loki merely shrugs as though completely innocent in response.
The announcer clears his throat and continues on. “Should my wife Frigga predecease me, A quarter of my monetary assets must be given to my eldest son Thor Odinson. Another quarter goes to my younger son Loki Odinson. The remainder shall be distributed in ways to help Asgard flourish, as well as to the heir to the throne.” He reads, and the crowd goes completely silent, confused by the lack of a named heir.
“I leave my son Thor Odinson the armour left in the royal armory, the staff I have carried as king, the Midgardian artifacts, and the power over the royal guard. He shall make an excellent leader to them all.” He states, and Thor’s face drops at the lack of a throne in his list.
“To my son Loki Odinson, I leave my gold helmet, the library of the palace, the west wing of the palace, and the throne I have sat upon to make my decrees. May he find read much wisdom while he sits in a fine chair.” Loki laughs a testy, angry sort of laugh.
The audience remains speechless, staring up in a mix of confusion and fear. Not once had any of them thought anyone other than the princes would take reign over their kingdom. Now, it looked like neither of them would.
“Finally, I leave the crown, the throne, and leadership over Asgard, as well as the palace and power over its staff to Astrid Ivarsdottir.” The man finishes, clearly having not read the will in full before now, given the look of shock on his face and the way he brought the parchment that much closer to his face.
Astrids breath hitched and her hands gripped tightly around the edges of the fountains frame. Her knuckles were going white, she was going white. Everything around her was moving in a sort of slow motion, her ears ringing loudly.
“Who?!” Someone called out, and a chorus of others chimed in. Soon enough, the crowd was in hysterics, trying to find out who this girl was.
Meanwhile, the princes were just as anxious. Loki was livid, snarling at the man as though he’d been the one to be so cruel to the boys, and not their own father.
“How in the norns did this happen?!” He demanded, looking quite ready to strangle the poor guy.
“Loki murder is not the answer!” Thor said, pulling his brother away.
“Well then finding this girl and how she managed to convince our father to play such a cruel trick on his own sons is!” He growls back, analyzing the chaos below.
Then, he saw her. The redhead from before, the one who ran into them both in the hall, the one who caught their eyes. The girl was pale as a sheet, staring into nothing, breathing heavy. Loki knew instantly the girl they were looking for was her. And he made sure Thor knew it too.
“Astrid? Astrid!” Liv whispered, not wanting more attention on them. She carefully splashes Astrids back with the cool water from the fountain behind her, earning a gasp in response.
“Thanks.” Astrid mumbles, slowly returning to herself.
But when she looks back up at Liv, she sees a guards finger pointed at her. And then she sees thousands of pairs of eyes. And all of them are on her.
This is…this is SO CLOSE to a drabble fic I had written a few years ago - Dead Letters,it’s blowing my mind! The major difference was that he was addressing Frigga in it, trying to reach her desperately.
This like 10x better tho. I love this so much! I’m legit crying. This artist is a genius!
