One of the things that we learn is that one’s Patronus can change if a significant event occurs. An example would be when Tonks falls in love with Lupin and her Patronus changes into a wolf.
But Lily’s Patronus never changes. It stays a doe.
Now a lot of people say that she’s a doe because James was a stag. Therefore they match because they are opposite sex/same species creatures and are meant for one another.
But a Patronus is not necessarily created ONLY from memories or thoughts about romantic love. Harry’s Patronus was originally cast with thoughts of his father.
So ostensibly, the memories she uses to cast her Patronus are not tied to James specifically, or it seems like her Patronus would have become a stag as well.
So what is Lily’s happiest memory?
It is my personal opinion that the very memory that Lily uses to cast her Patronus is the one from her childhood where she first learns that she is a witch from kid-Snape- the absolutely exhilarating feeling of finally figuring out what she is.
And we know that Snape has very few happy memories. In fact, the memories that Harry ends up seeing in the Penseive are all tied in some way to that first meeting between Lily/Severus, which to me shows that they were probably memories that Snape rehashes often, probably in order to cast his Patronus, which is why they were so easy to dredge up even as Snape was dying.
So, to some extent, I think that both Snape and Lily have the same Patronus not because Snape was in romantic/sexual love with Lily, but because both of them used the same memories to construct a Patronus in the first place.
For Lily, it was the exhilarating feeling of knowing what to call her odd abilities and the fact that there was more to that world and that she’d finally found someone else like her. For Snape, it was the exhilarating feeling of meeting someone who valued him and sought out his company for the first time in forever.
This fits in nicely to me with the fact that JK has officially stated that before Lily and James were murdered, Lily was seriously thinking of reconciling with Severus, especially after seeing his work for the Order.
I don’t think that they would have ever worked out as a romantic relationship in canon (of course, fanfiction is a totally different kettle of fish, ehehehe), but I do think she missed their friendship and that she respected the fact that he had admitted that he had made a mistake and was trying to make up for it.
And I think that they did truly love each other, even if that love was not of a romantic/sexual nature.
Your thoughts?
I’m totally behind the idea that Lily’s Patronus didn’t come about because of James’ stag. When I initially read DH, I thought it was meant to show they were “a perfect pair,” but I never thought his Animagus or Patronus form influenced hers. HP has a trend of semi-matching Patronus – Ginny’s is a horse, Harry’s is a stag; Hermione’s is an otter, which is a member of the weasel family, but Ron’s is a Jack Russell terrier. If James and Lily are a stag and a doe, male and female deer, that’s (afaik) an isolated match. Tonks’ Patronus changed to a werewolf because of Remus, and Snape’s (it was generally assumed) changed to a doe because of Lily. If Lily’s changed to a doe to match James’ stag, this is the only instance we know of a Patronus becoming a “mate” for another. What I mean is that it doesn’t map to any other love in the series and therefore we can take it any way we want – if that’s in fact what happened. I’ve never taken it as indicating influence but as supposed compatibility.
(Of course, if that’s the case, then Snape and Harry are compatible. As a longtime Snarry shipper, that’s always made me laugh.)
I once read a fic which posited that by matching Lily’s Patronus exactly, Snape’s doe represented perfect identification, as opposed to (male/female deer) affinity. I always thought that was an interesting take on it. I’ve read another fic where Snape and Lily’s doe was the result of an influential memory that they both shared, an idea I also liked.
I love this idea that the doe represents Lily’s pleasure at finding out she’s a witch, and that Snape’s doe is a reflection of that. James and Harry were very different people, and yet they both were represented by a stag. With James, the stag is suggestive of being a show-offy King of the Forest, whereas with Harry I think it’s more likely to represent the noble, sacrificial hero. Patronuses can definitely represent different things for different people, as if it’s refracted through the lens of their personality.
I like to imagine that Snape had no idea what Lily’s Patronus was (it’s not exactly a piece of Hogwarts’ typical curriculum, as casting it is beyond a lot of witches and wizards) but that because, in his mind, she represented love – whether you spin it as friendship or romance, which are not mutually exclusive – happiness and goodness, and that when he first cast it, he had no idea why it was a doe. Dumbledore called Snape’s love for Lily, his willingness to sacrifice everything to keep her safe and to honor her memory when she was gone, “the best of him.” Isn’t that what the Patronus is?
In fics where Snape survives DH and finds another female love, it’s been my experience that his Patronus changes to match hers. This is interesting to me, because it suggests that Snape has no store of happiness that’s not tied to another person. I tend to agree with that; but I think that Snape’s Patronus is “set” as a doe. If we take his Patronus as evidence of emotional upheaval or of love, I think that Lily’s friendship and her loss are so deeply a part of him that it would be virtually impossible for his Patronus to change, no matter if he loved someone else or not.
There’s so much left open to interpretation with the Patronus – so much that it represents, and imo, it’s one of the series’ most interesting pieces of magical world-building – that it majorly bums me out to see people (erroneously) reducing it to “Snape was obsessed.” I absolutely think that he and Lily loved each other and that the tragedy of their life made it impossible for them to be together, but that that love never went away. However we interpret the doe’s formation, it still represents his reason for everything he did to keep Lily safe and protect Harry. The series is all about how people are shaped by love, and Snape’s doe is a powerful symbol of that. It’s one of my favorite parts of the series.
Reblogging for the excellent added thoughts.
Wonderful commentary
Meta like this (and fic) is why I keep on loving HP even after all these years. There are always new facets to discover.
okay so that’s at least one person who would have no problem if they got sent back to medieval times, the guild hall absolutely going off to this mashup
I wish I could be like one of those Tumblr people who make well-written and informed analyses on their interests and hyperfixations but no I got stuck with the GGAGRRHHD AARRAARFGHFGG. HHGGGGRGGGGRGRRRGGHH MMBBRBBRBJGJGJ KKAAAAAAAAAAA HHHHH AAA !!?,,!??,!
If you didn’t catch our last glow prints in 2019, these come out AMAZING and the ink looks outstanding at night or under blacklight! They only printing ONCE on June 16th so make sure to put your orders in before then!
I’ve already mentioned this in the general I Kissed Shara Wheeler screaming post but I’m going to talk more about how much I love the execution of Smith’s gender identity because everything about it was so well done?
First of all, I was very happy to see some more diverse nonbinary representation! More nonbinary rep is always good to have, and I love Ash’s character a lot, but they’re a bit of a stereotype. I’d like to reiterate no hate to Ash, I love them, but they are assigned female, short hair, weird earrings, they/them pronouns, on TikTok. Which is fairly standard, though in no way bad.
Smith, though. A genderqueer character who’s assigned male at birth, a definite rarity even in queer fiction. Football player, typically masculine build, doesn’t use they/them pronouns.
I like how he and Ash coexist in the same book, and they’re both nonbinary (or some sort of non-cis), and the book is really just telling us there’s no one way to be nonbinary. Fantastic. Shoutout to Casey McQuiston for giving us this.
The scene where we found out Smith maybe wasn’t cisgender after all was also fantastic, potentially my favorite scene in the book. The whole experience of “well Ifeel like that and I’mnot queer” and then later realizing your queer is so relatable and an experience I think a lot of queer people share. As someone who has absolutely done that multiple times, Smith experiencing that Oblivious Queer moment made me laugh.
Ash’s explanation of how traditionally feminine interests =/= being a girl, and short hair =/= being a boy, was a good and also fairly realistic way of separating gender identity and expression. I don’t think most people in real life will use the unicorn thing, but people do talk about hair. It didn’t feel forced.
The way Smith described dysphoria was also great. Sometimes it is looking at your body and hating, loathing, it should be the other binary sex, but sometimes it’s not- sometimes it’s “I wish it was different but I guess I can deal with it.” And wearing baggy clothes to try to imagine your body is different? Very relatable.
“You know… if being a guy feels like something you haveto do, like it’s an obligation or something…” Ash says carefully. “Maybe think about that.” This line is probably getting so many readers to question their genders. Honestly, reading something like this would have been my genderqueer awakening if I hadn’t been awakened already.
In the burn pile, Smith’s multiple attempts at answering the prompt “what is a moment in your life that you felt truly yourself,” and the way he struggled with finding a time he felt truly himself, was a painfully common queer experience.
The football response to that prompt was good, but I adored the one about feeling endless, like the Holy Spirit. Queering religion and using it to feel closer with your gender. Very glad McQuiston didn’t take the “I’m queer so fuck being religious I guess” route, because that is fairly common, the “I’m queer and religious and they enhance one another” mindset is nowhere near explored enough.
Smith also wears his letterman jacket all the time, even in eighty degree heat, which Chloe puts down to “jock flexing,” but reading that scene after finding out Smith wears that jacket to cope with dysphoria makes the reader see this fashion choice of his in a very different way. I see what McQuistion did there.
I didn’t expect Smith to end up being genderqueer (though I definitely called the thing with Rory), but I’m so glad he is, because that whole subplot was beautiful and I clearly have a lot of thoughts on that, but I’ll shut up now.
