#aegon targaryen

oh brother now we’re adding aegon to the list of men who think they’re gonna marry darnerys

Dragons and their riders aesthetic.

“I am the blood of the dragon.”

House Targaryen aesthetic.

“The brave men did not kill dragons, the brave men rode them.”

So I just stumbled upon the umpteenth post on incest, and decided to clarify in the simplest way possible once and for all:

1. Why is incest considered morally wrong

2. Why is incest to be avoided

To answer 1., I need to specify two things: why is incest considered morally wrong here and now, meaning, in our society and in ourtimes. Because if you look back in time you’ll find mutliple examples of incest which was totally fine with everyone:

• The ever so mentioned Middle-ages noble European dinasties, who frequently married between cousins, uncle and nieces, aunt and nephews
• A number of the members of the Ptolemaic dinasty, last but not least the famous Queen Cleopatra who was supposed so hook up with her half-brother
• Deities in mythology. In particular in the Greek-Roman mythology, pretty much all deities are related and all want to hook up. Oh and Japanese mythology. Quite possibly other mythologies I don’t remember.
• Cain and Abel both wanted to marry their sister. In fact, it is said Cain killed Abel precisely over this. Then Abraham, and others, who married nieces.

This clarifies that a mindset on incest varies depending on where and when we were born. As such, statements such as “You don’t disapprove incest!!” are much like “You are pro/versus abortion!!”: At the end of the day, they depend of one’s personal views and education.

Moreover, going over Wikipedia you’ll find that:

• Most countries in the world allow cousin marriage

• A number of countries allow uncle-niece, aunt-nephew - the first one is much more common though - incest, there’s wasn’t a graphic on this, it was just me reading the entire Wikipedia page, you’re free not to trust my memory and read it yourself.
• What iswidely not allowed is incest in direct line, which is incest between direct descendants and ancestors, meaning parents and children, grandparents and grandchildren, and so on - for Westeros examples, we have Craster and his daughter-wives, which was made even worse by the fact that he was an abuser and condamned his sons to become popsicles. Incest between siblings is also widely illegal today, from the relationship itself being a punishable offense, to the sole marriage being illegal. But it’s not illegal everywhere.
• The definition of incest according to law varies much from country to country: in some countries it’s up to third cousins, in others it considers only direct descendants. This too proves how the mindset varies even more and that you may or may not find people who consider it a taboo.
• In many countries where incest, however defined, is illegal, a permission can be asked to marry a close relative - for example in Italy you can turn to a tribunal to obtain permission to marry your aunt/nephew.
• Macro-Religions like Catholicism, Hebraism, Hinduism and Islam ban incest. But if you look it up, religions like Catholicism and Islam often granted and grant concessions to marry close relatives - though never in direct line. And then maybe used that same excuse to annul marriages - see Henry VIII of England and his first wife. Not to mention how reading the Ancient Testament you’ll find so many examples of incest to make you think that religion simply cared or cared not based simply on what was convenient at the moment.

But this is just a list to exhibit that the where and when of my first question do change the answer. This is a concept called “cultural relativism” in anthropology, which means exactly what you think it would: “our ideas and conceptions are true only so far as our civilization goes.” . And our civilization comprehend our society, our family, our education, our country, out history…

So let’s talk here and now, which would be today in a average western country: why is incest considered morally wrong?

The answer lies in psychology and anthropology. The so called Westermark effect explains that children who grow up together develop a reverse sexual imprinting, which means that as grown-ups, they tend notto feel sexual attraction towards each other,whether or not they are actually blood-related. This explains why you don’t often see adoptive siblings getting married, because they develop a sense of vicinity that excludes sexual attraction and eros and so on. And in it lies also why we as individuals mostly feel incest as “icky”: because psychology says that in most cases we don’t want to hook up with our siblings. I don’t want to hook up with any relative of mine. I’m ready to bet half of you wouldn’t as well. Then again exceptions exist, both here and in Westeros, Lannister kids or not.

So this is why some people feel icky about Jaime and Cersei, Jon and Daenerys: because we don’t want the same for us. Personally, I’d have no problems with Cersei and Jaime either, if not for the fact that’s she’s kinda the incarnation of evil and all that follows, because I couldn’t care less about what others do, as long as they don’t hurt each other or a third party - which Jaime and Cersei sadly do.

But keep this in mind: the Westermark effect doesn’t apply to Jon and Daenerys: they did not grow up as siblings or cousin or even remote relatives. The effect doesn’t work on amount of DNA shared - let alone they couldn’t even know about that in Westeros -, but on having grown up together as family. This is why, even if we teleported Jon in our time and society, he’d have a harder time hooking up with either Arya or Sansa, because despite them sharing less DNA than with Daenerys,they share a sense of “family” that tends to exclude any sexual attraction.

In statistics terms, it’s huge bad luck that out of all the people in the world you fall in love with your nephew/aunt, but the point of my explanation is that they fell in love precisely because they don’t know.

And also maybe because of the so called “Genetic Sexual Attraction”, look it up.

And also because they’re both good-looking.

And also because they have similar characters and goals and a steady will to help people.

…

What else?

…

Oh yeah, maybe, just maybe, because they’re the fricking song of Ice and Fire and the center of the whole saga - blame Martin not me.

Proceeding to number 2: why is incest to be avoided?

Having already discuss the moral reasonable let’s move on to the scientific ones, specifically, genetics: simply put, because inbreeding genetic disorders. One example? Dwarfism. In a realistic world, which Westeros is not, Tyrion’s dwarfism can be blamed on his parents being first cousins. Other examples are albinism, fused limbs, microcephaly, misshapen skull, and so on. There’s a small island close to Sardinia where all the inhabitants have terrible eyesight, because they are descendants of a small group of people with bad eyesight and kept marrying between each other over years. In the Brazilian village of Araras the same happened, with the difference that here the inhabitants developed a terrible condition that doesn’t allow them to stay in the sun. Examples are endless.

Analyzing a Targaryen family tree, which again savvy people on Reddit did, you’d notice that clearly our world’s genetics doesn’t apply to the Dragon Lords, because if it did, most of the members would be severely malformed and probably wouldn’t live long, instead of being the super-human beauties that they are. Leave out Jon and Daenerys, because all their ancestors wouldn’t have lived to begin with. For this reason we can infer that a child between him and her shouldn’t have particular problems, so the genetics argument doesn’t apply here either. And the genetics argument is the only completely impartial and objective counterargument that can be used against incest in our world: all the others are subject to cultural relativism. I hear a lot people stating that Westeros isn’t the real world and as such we shouldn’t apply our views on it, but they use this argument incorrectly, because they refer to simply liking it or not, when the science itself is different - in a world where winters last for years - and so, to make an hyperbole, you might as well try to apply our science to an alien.

I wrote this as a clarification for people who mindlessly apply standards that don’t belong and notice that in all of this I never said “it’s a fictional story, you can do as you like”, bevause there’s no need to come to that.

The argument “you ship Jon and Dany, therefore you support incest” is the stupidest thing on Earth because it all depends on how you define incest, then cultural relativism says you may approve of it or not and no-one can give you shit for it, but most importantly, the Westermark effect assures you that shipping relatives doesn’t imply you’re shipping yourself with a relative.

It took all of this to simply state: you may, actually, ship whoever you want. An argument that was initiated by Jaime ages ago: “We don’t get to choose who we love.”

I don’t get.

The Golden Company went to meet Viserys once to at least hear his offer, then they waited for him because of the plans of Illyrio Mopatis. Later they waited for Daenerys to fight for her, as well. Both Viserys and Daenerys are pure-line Targaryens, not Blackfyres, and the Golden Company at least considered fighting for the first and waited to fight for the latter nonetheless.

And still the fact that the Golden Company is fighting for Aegon now is used to “proof” he must be a Blackfyre.

So how would they fight for two Targaryens, but Aegon MUST be a Blackfyre for them to fight for him? How does the fact that the Golden Company decides to fight for Aegon proof him to be a Blackfyre and not a Targaryen if they had no issue fighting for other Targaryens before him?

It absolutely makes no sense at all.

To phrase it harshly with a quote from “The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy”:

This theory is based on three things: ignorance, stupidity, and nothing else. ☜(˚▽˚)☞

(Don’t get me wrong, I am not saying he is DEFINITELY not a Blackfyre. He might be one - I hope he is not. But the idea that the GC fighting for him proofs him to be a Blackfyre is a mere fallacy.)

I am waiting for the moment when Daenerys tells those two guys that they can’t be both called ‘Aegon’. 

“From now on I name you 'Left’ and 'Right’” - Queen of Thorns style :D

So, after reading a bit into comments and theories about Young Griff/Aegon - which I certainly should not have done because many of those are really appalling – it seems that basically Dany is a total Queen for the same things for which Aegon gets mocked and abused. LOL!

And that’s when comparing them is completely nonsensical anyway.

It’s measuring up »Character A«, that we saw very little of and have no insight (POV) into, to »Character B«, that we have hundreds of pages on (both 3rd Person and POV) – and then judge »Character A« on the grounds of »Character B«.

From the tiny bits we saw of Aegon, it’s not even possible to create a reliable characterization – not if you’re not just trying to shove bias into the gaps as it suits you and execute some wishful condemnation.

For example, one of the accusations towards Aegon that I read quite commonly is that he is arrogant. Not that I would even see that between the lines – but that’s where I am as positively biased towards him as others are negatively biased towards him. Yet apart from that, Dany has a whole lot of scenes – every time she acts as a Khaleesi or Queen in particular – where she is arrogant or at least tries to be. Furthermore, she constantly goes on about all her titles, about being the blood of the dragon, and demands her people to cross the world with her to get her the throne she believes to be hers. That she is fearing and doubting and insecure, we only know from her POV – and the only reason why we do not know about Aegon’s inner monologue is that we did not see any yet. That, however, does not mean that he is a plain, empty caricature who is all that little bit of Tyrion- and JonCon-POV and nothing more. GRRM does not create plain caricature characters – so it’s very unlikely that there is not very much more to his character than the little we saw.

Another accusation often read is that he is naive and inexperienced – and for this, he is compared to Dany, Jon or Robb. But they WERE exactly that: Naive and inexperienced. They grew from it, but they have been with us for a very long time. We saw them grow from being little more than a child to the characters they are today, or to their demise. But Aegon has been sheltered away until basically today. He studied the world, but he has no experience with people. He, just like the others, will either grow or find his demise. Robb was hugely naive throughout his whole campaign, he was just lucky for a while. He headed out to safe, then avenge his father, and it got turned into a wanna-be-king-megalomania. Dany was a scared, little mouse until she found the strength to grow. Jon was as entitled as a bastard could be and pretty arrogant at that until Donal Noye and the rest of the Night’s Watch set his head right. Or take Renly who proved to be stubborn and naive beyond anything when his entire justification for wanting to supplant his older brother was: “people like me more than Stannis“.

Aegon has no tale like that YET. He has been on a boat, hidden away, sheltered. He is just starting out into the world. So comparing him to where Jon and Dany are today, or where Renly and Robb were before they ended, is really absurd. No matter how far the rest of the story is advanced, he is still at the beginning.

Now, please don’t get me wrong: Dany is a wholesome, fascinating character. She has her flaws and strengths because she is not just a caricature. But exactly that is what makes the way Aegon is treated so unfair.

And regardless if he is Aegon or only Young Griff, he is a boy of ~16 who has not seen much of the world. Yes, Daenerys is younger, but she has also been through a lot of shit already – which is not Aegon’s fault, nor is it his fault, that he is inexperienced.

Yes, he assumes that Daenerys will marry him – but so does Daenerys! When she thinks about the son of her older brother at one time, she believes that, had the boy lived, she would have married him because it would have been natural. Targaryens did that sort of thing. Daenerys grew up with that knowledge, just as Aegon did. The idea, that Dany might have a different idea on the matter, makes Aegon react angrily, though it’s not clear whether he is angry that he has been treated like he is a stupid child by Tyrion, whether he feels offended by the idea that Dany might not accept his hand in marriage – or whether he is completely shocked by the idea that all the stuff he has been fed his whole life might not work out as smoothly. It is so easy to read »spoiled brat« into that, but this is only Tyrion’s POV – and Tyrion was in a very bleak mood at that time. We see Aegon being friendly and gentle, laughing and joking, smart and a good student, helping and even saving Tyrion – yet it is that one moment at the Cyvasse Board that people use to judge his character – though that moment was so much more soul wrenching to him that just him losing the game.

All in all, judging Aegon on the same grounds as judging Daenerys makes absolutely no sense. Nothing of this is his doing, either. He is a young boy who is still trying to find his bearings in a world that probably consists only of lies. He might be just a pawn in a play, or he might be the last dragon, and then he is the rightful heir – no matter if Daenerys likes that or not.

Holy shit. Reading into theories and the ASOIAF fandom makes me want to steer far from it.

Where does all this racism and fan&character-shaming come from?

Can I please just like Young Griff/Aegon and believe he is exactly what he claims to be, because I love authors bringing in a main player late? Can I enjoy him because him appearing now fucks up all the planning just for the lulz?

May I just hope for Daenerys trying to fry him and realise that he doesn’t burn, to which he retorts with: „Ok auntie. Now that we settled that, could we please just start burning down Westeros?“

Another „A Song of Ice and Fire“ readthrough.

Another increase to my believe that the „Blackfyre“-theory is dumb.

First of the Targaryen dynasty in Westeros: King Aegon I and his Queens, Visenya and Rhaenys.

(Planning on putting them in one picture)

Jon Snow✨

true king

melodyoffire:

David Benioff thinks it’s justifiable that Daenerys went mad after 7 seasons of being a just ruler who freed others from enslavement, NEVER put herself in the position to risk the lives of innocents, and valued the voice of the people, because “ultimately she’s a Targaryen”; yet Jon Snow, ALSO A TARGARYEN, is somehow immune to this predisposed genetic disease because… he’s a man?Say it like it is, David. Just say you don’t care about women and be done with it.

Allright, no one likes how Dany went mad. But isn’t Jon not just A MAN, but, like… A Targaryen born from Targaryen AND Stark? Wasn’t incest what caused madness to be so common in Targaryens? And Dany is, like, daughter of incest, while Jon is ok, because his parents are not brother and sister?

No one denies that writers do something weird with Dany’s arv, make her mad, but at least they don’t make Jon not-mad just because he is a MAN and the show makers are sexist. At least here we have the normal reason for him not to be mad.

Think whatever you want, Jon might be a wimp and writers may be misogynystic/sexist/whatever. But he is nit mad just because he is a man. Don’t take this farther than it has to be.

Why Game of Thrones ending in 2019 is ridiculous, toxic and send a bad message?

• cocks are important to rule 
• women who have desires and ambitions are evil and mad
• rape makes you strong and love kills you 
• women in power are only good rullers if a man grants power to her and she asked nicely
• women can’t handle power, men can’t handle love
• men doing revenge is  natural and heroic, women, aspired to revenge, are heartless mad and insane that need to die
• a powerful women is a threat

Its the battle as we know, Dany says Dracarys to NK, but it doesnt work, she sees Jon running towards the NK with Longclaw, but she sees a lot of wights coming, Drogon lands and breath´s fire killing a lot of wights, but more wights comes at Drogon and Danys falls near Jon when Drogon in stress with wights leaves.

Jon and NK fight, but NK beats Jon, Longclaw is on the floor, NK grabes it and puts in Jon cheast, Dany screams,NK smiles and turn his back at her, going to Bran. Dany goes to Jon, he´s bleeding, shes crying, Jon begs her to save Bran and put her hand in his sword, she says i love you and pulls Longclaw out of his cheast, when she pulls it, its on fire! Melisandre at the same time, says at the castle “Azor Ahai is here”. After all, Jon´s duty were to save and protect Azor Ahai - Dany the Unburn - thats why Lord of Light saved him.

Everyone is fighting wights, Arya and Jorah is protecting Bran from the NK generals, Jorah dies. Dany passes through fire with the fire sword LongClaw, NK turns around, goes to Dany, she runs screaming at him in rage, he tries to swing at her with his ice sword, but she gets down, when shes up she puts screaming in rage the fire sword in his chest, destroying him and the all the wights.

After this Dany finds shes pregnant, but she´s in rage because Cersei didnt helped, Jorah is dead, Jon is dead, Missandei and Tyrion are imprisoned in Kings Landing. Dany is mad. Sansa is crowned Queen of the North and she and Danys agrees if sending tropes to fight Cersei, Dany will give Sansa independence. After 4 months its the fight, Dany has already a pregnancy belly but she still flies on Drogon. Its the Kings Landing fight.

What Dany didnt know was that Cersei has wildfire hidden through Kings Landing, when Drogon kills the Golden Company, it activates wildfire destroying the city. Dany is in rage with Cersei, flies through the Red Keep, the queens look at each other Dany flying in Drogon outside and Cersei scared inside the Red Keep, and Dany says “Dracarys”. Cersei and big ammount of the Red Keep are destroyed.

Dany enters the throne room with Missandei and Tyrion present at the room watching her at distance. She looks at Kings Landing destroyed tearful, then looks at the Throne, she touches the Throne and then she says seriously “Dracarys” and Drogon destroys the Iron Throne. She looks at Missandei and Tyrion and says “Send ravens tell that Danenerys Targaryen broke the wheel, Westeros is now independent, and the people are free.”She goes on Drogon flying away and disappears. 

Years fast foward every region is independent Tyrion meets with Sam and they tell that they heard various rumors - same say seeing a dragon flying at old Valyria, others say seeing a dragon heading to West of Westeros, while others say dont see in years a dragon or a Targaryen. They hope Dany and the child of Jon are safe and happy elsewhere. Tyrion is the Casterly Rock Dwarf, Sansa the Queen of the North, Yara the Queen of Iron Islands, some cousin of Olenna and Margaery is the Queen of the Reach and Arya is the lady of Stormsland with Gendry Baratheon and Bran is working with the maesters to fulfill the history books correctly. Then the last image are a blond boy and a brunette girl entering a cave and finding dragon eggs. The we heard Dany´s voice without seeing her “ Come here children”. The children smile and leaves the cave running. FADES TO BLACK