#syscourse
oh by the way, “bootlicker” is and has been a political term for a lot longer and is known as a political term far more widely than it is a sexual one. calling someone a cuck, as well, is not inherently sexual either, as seemingly sexual words such as “motherfucker”, “asshole” and “pussy” can be and have often been used as mere insults rather than in the original contexts. this is because context of the word matters, and because of that, a word like “dick” doesn’t have one true definition, and can both mean “slang for male/AMAB genitalia” AND “someone who is being rude”.
it’s really cool, how words have different meanings depending on the contexts, and how one word can have more than one definition depending on what context it’s in. this is basic linguistics.
another thing that’s really cool is that it’s actually disturbingly creepy for an adult at least 10 years older than a 17 year old they don’t know to say “you’re turning me on” out of left field in a completely unrelated argument, double down on it, use the age of consent laws where they live while lacking an understanding of differing ones in the 17 year old’s, and for immature adults to spin this around back on the 17 year old, who is part of a demographic that more often than not has experienced some form of sexual abuse, and blame them for the inappropriate interaction. it’s also inappropriate for another adult to come in and say that this is fine, actually, that this minor was totally sexually harassing someone else by using a political phrase, and that because they were raped by a minor at some point, that justifies them saying that “terrible things should happen to minors that do this” otherwise we’re allowing rapists to be born, and that, it’s good actually, to let horrible things happen to minors that use political terms against adults, because that’s definitely sexual harassment, and not something that can very well eventually end up being used against minors to defend sexually harassing, assaulting and abusing kids, because they “asked for it” by “sexually harassing” an adult.
the coolest thing about this entire situation is these actual grown ass adults have doubled down so hard on defending an inherently predatory and inappropriate interaction, blaming the minor and saying that the adult in question can’t have done something inappropriate because they’re asexual, as if that means anything irt how asexual people experience attraction and sex drive–speaking as someone who is on the ace spectrum.
what more than likely happened here is that queer-adhd made an inappropriate comment that they didn’t think about before making it to a minor they don’t know, and then instead of apologizing and admitting fault like a mature adult would, he instead doubled down and got all of his friends to defend him and his shitty joke, blaming the minor for “sexually harassing” them all for using a widely known political term and a widely known contextual insult. i hope they stretched before they started reaching like that, otherwise they’re all gonna pull some muscles.
what these people refused to do was disengage. they actively chose to make the situation worse, ignored their responsibility as adults to not be predatory around minors they don’t know in favor of making a creepy joke/comment, once again, towards a minor who is part of a group that has largely been sexually abused more often than not, and then blaming the minor for the interaction. they refused to disengage. they are the ones harassing a minor for a very nonsensical reason and are refusing to be mature about it. as adults, they have the responsibility to stop interacting with a minor if the conversation turns inappropriate, and if they felt it became inappropriate because the minor was using an alleged “sexual term”, then they should end the interaction or say that it is inappropriate, and move on. but they chose to ignore that responsibility and they chose to ignore the fact that words have different meanings based on context.
in short; these people are immature cunts. is the conversation sexual now? am i turning you on? lol.
here’s a very hot take a lot of people probably aren’t going to like, but i don’t care because i’m kind of sick of seeing this.
i’m going to be honest here. i’m so, unbelievably tired of people getting uncomfortable or going quiet when i point out that many parts of the DID community do the same exact things endos are doing: spreading misinformation about DID and how it works. just, for some reason, this misinformation is almost always blindly accepted when the person spreading it happens to be anti-endo.
just because they agree with your stance on endos and appear to be “pro-science” doesn’t make them correct.
examples of misinformation i’ve seen plenty of horrifically misinformed anti-endo DID systems spread:
- “you can split from hyperfixation and not just stress and trauma, it just has to be intense emotions!”
- “fictive-only systems are valid.”
- “there’s a correlation between polyfragmentation and autism because of media special interests!”
- “polyfragmentation is when you have 100+ alters.”
- “i get tics when i dissociate and only when i dissociate.”
- “a DID diagnosis is bad because they can take away your options for housing, your driver’s license and even your ability to buy alcohol!”
- “a diagnosis is bad because all doctors are evil and want to force you to final fuse, and you shouldn’t trust them.”
- “final fusion is murdering your alters and if you go through with it, you’re a terrible person.”
- “fictive is a DID-only term!”
- “i’m 15 and i’m 100% certain i have 300,000 alters and if you tell me i’m misinformed about how DID works and that the largest amount of alters recorded has been 4,000 and that jeni haynes, with 2,500 alters had one of the most horrific cases of child abuse that australia had ever seen, then you’re ableist.”
- “this carrd i made totally doesn’t over-simplify an extremely complex disorder, i promise! it’s so super-duper accurate. the most research i have done is watch tiktoks and youtube videos and read twitter threads and also i did a google search once.”
if you can’t learn to call out the bullshit in your own community, especially when a lot of that bullshit was started by endos misunderstanding DID in various ways, you aren’t ready for syscourse. because there is bullshit in our community, just as much as there is in the endo communities, and pretending like it’s a one-off thing when someone spreads misinfo is being willfully ignorant. pretending like endos are the only problem that the DID community has with misinformation is being willfully ignorant. pretending like the DID community doesn’t have a problem with misinformation at all is being willfully ignorant.
once again voicing my opinion that yall who “ironically” identify w the term “sysmed” are part of the problem. its a shit term, and if you hate it, dont popularize it. deplatform it. simply stop replying to ppl who use it as a term. dont give ppl who use it the time of day and force them to either stop using it entirely or come up w a different term to engage.
You do not owe anyone any explanations. You do not owe anyone a trauma story. You do not owe anyone diagnosis papers. You do not owe anyone any information about yourself.
You’re real, regardless of what people online say, and you don’t need to prove yourself to anyone. Stay strong, you’re going to get through this.
i think some people are so eager to slap on “caretaker” or “protector” to littles is because it’s possible they were possibly parentified as a child (forced to act as “the adult” in the house, be it actually physically taking care of neglectful parents, forced to raise an do everything for their siblings, etc.). Which is just wrong and horrible.
Please, talk to a school counselor. Get yourself into therapy. This is completely unfair to your little and you’re pushing your own traumatic childhood onto them. This is actively encouraging a maladaptive (aka harmful) coping mechanism. Your little deserves better.
When it comes to age within systems, body age is the most important. Littles are not actual children. Not every system’s littles function in the same way. I believe it is incredibly harmful to attempt to dictate what other systems do with their littles.
The childhood trauma the system experienced is also the trauma of the littles within the system, and while it may be the case that certain systems are retraumatizing themselves, that is not up for you to dictate nor judge.
Some of our littles are definitely like real children and deserve to be cared for and treated like such, but some of our littles are mature and responsible and do not deserve to be dehumanized into a charactour of what you believe an acceptable child is
- Tim
I agree with this completely. A little that is a caretaker or protector is, first of all, not being “made” to be one. We don’t assign alters roles, they have them. If a little forms as a protector, there’s a reason for it, and the system is not parentifying the little, holy shit.
Like the above comment, littles may be very childlike mentally but not all littles are. Even a very childlike little could be a type of protector or caretaker though? Like… you are absolutely using very narrow definitions of things to make this (bad) point.
Also you realize littles have the same traumatic childhood as the whole system, right? It’s not pushing your trauma onto a little. The whole system is already traumatized, alters exist to help compartmentalize and cope with the trauma. That’s. That’s basic information
Endogenic systems… a frog for you *hands you the slimey boy*
*takes away the frog*
I have endless frogs it’s ok
you are using trans community terms for people who believe in science. lmao.
Cool you also choose to believe eugenicist research over plural led foundations
eugenicist research? what, the fact that people with childhood trauma dont want people to treat their community like a cool quirky club?
you also completely ignored my first point. you dont have any good comebacks so you point to the disabled jewish person and call them a eugenicist supporter.
You know the DSM recognizes spiritual systems, right? And that the person who came up with the diagnostic criteria abused his patients and got his medical license revoked, right? Or do you only read the medical articles formed by researchers who stigmatize plurality instead of the ones made by grassroot organizations made by and for plurals?
being nice to endo apologists is so tiring jesus fuck stop complaining about nobody listening to you if you attack people for trying to ask you genuine questions
the world would be a better place if people would just make private vent blogs for this stuff
the guy who changed “multiple personality disorder” to “dissociative identity disorder” in the 90s didnt do it because of a better understanding of the disorder or the “science” (there is none). he openly admits that he did it because he doesnt believe that multiplicity exists, he thinks that all systems are fakes, and his hands were tied even as the chair of the DSM committee so changing the definition was the “next best thing” to striking MPD from the DSM entirely.
they dont know anything. do you hear me? do you get it? they make these DSM decisions arbitrarily, based on the opinions of whichever wealthy, privileged, neurotypical white male shrinks happen to be on the committee at the time. the DSM is not a tome filled with Absolute Truth. its FINE if your identity is based on being a Trauma Holder or a Protector or a Traumagenic DID System, thats FINE, but we have to remember, we have to really internalize this: they Do Not Believe In Us. they dont know shit. there is no scientific proof that early childhood trauma is the only way to be multiple, or that the DID/OSDD definitions actually mean anything at all. they were written in an attempt to discredit any multiples who were easier targets, in an effort to get rid of us, in order for one guy to be able to say “i dont believe they exist AT ALL but fine, fine, if anyone at all really IS a
special snowflakesystem then its SUPER RARE and can only happen this One Specific Way becausei said soScience”brains and experiences are weird and we dont know hardly anything about them, about ourselves. be kind to one another. be kind. your experiences are not universal. endogenic systems have EXACTLY as much Scientific Evidence of their existence as DID systems: none at all. dont let some musty old ableist prick define someone else out of existence just to make yourself feel more valid.
Also it’s so wild to me how much some of y'all cling to psychiatry as some ally to “real” systems.
- Back when MPD was a label used systems diagnosed with it were denied treatment if they interacted with anyone else with MPD because psychs were so scared of them advocating for themselves. This also included if they were part of support groups for abuse and trauma survivors that let systems be themselves and talk abt members like real people, cause it was more important to isolate systems from important healing resources rather than letting them make other plural friends and gain allies.
- Onno Van Der Hart lost his license for physical abuse. The entire structutal theory of dissociation was made up by him specifically for the excuse to abuse his patients. “You’re broken and not real people and only I can cure you” is the entire fucking point of that theory. It’s inherently eugenics and abusive as hell and y'all don’t fucking care praising an actual proven abuser i guess
- Even dissociative specialists often know jack shit about systemhood because they Don’t Study From Systems they study a bunch of shit neurotypical white men made up but sure I’ll trust them with my mental health and autonomy/s
as a jewish system ive seen a lot of people with “jewish alters” (mainly kyle from sp) and as a jew it makes me really uncomfortable to see people claim to be jewish because of that. it is a split from a gentiles mind, therefore they arent jewish nor will they ever be jewish
ive also seen people claim to be “jewish in the iw!!” which is also really weird, its the same as claiming to be another race then the body, its literal antisemetism.
Look my guy even if professionals don’t take you seriously bc of endogenic systems existing or whatever….get a different professional. How is that the endogenic systems problem? “Oh sht I became a excuse for one random guy to take his mask off and be ableist time to deny my entire existence!!”
sysmeds: get shitty at people for using the word ‘alter’ if they aren’t diagnosed with DID/OSDD
also sysmeds: unconsensually labels other people’s system members as alters (usually in scare quotes - you know, just to remind you they don’t think you exist) even when the system doesn’t use the term
???? make it make sense
You lot cleary don’t care enough about labels to realise that “sysmed” is a transphobic term
It’s not, it’s recognizing that y'all are doing the exact same shit with plurality that your forebears did with transness: Trying to medicalize it and frame it as solely a cause of suffering.
It’s something that trans people have been recognizing and calling out.
It is not transphobic for trans people to point out parallels to the tactics used to hurt them. It is VERY transphobic to insist that trans people shut up about these parallels.
And none of this has any bearing on the fact that it’s really shitty to tell someone they can’t use a term, then force it on them.
Sincerely, a system with zero cis members and for whom “alter” is a fighting word.
1. Not doing that.
2. I should know dickhead, were trans and have been fighting for trans rights since we were young. You’re not doing ANYTHING by propping you being trans up against us. My “forebears” are nothing of the fucking sort.
3. Comparing a disorder to a social construct/identity is actually really transphobic.
4. Sincerely, someone who thinks your mere existence on this site is bringing back my chronic migraine.
Pretty sure I blocked you months ago as well.
1. That’s literally the entire point of your politics: To deny the existence of non disordered systems. Fuck, you even do it in this very post!
2. And you playing the “It’s transphobic for trans people to talk about the parallels between their experiences!” card is doing what exactly?
3. Plurality isn’t inherently disordered. Even if it were, newsflash, asshole: Disorders are also a social construct. The fact that you’re arguing for medicalization without understanding that is terrifying.
4. And I am 100% positive that either you did not block me, or you subsequently unblocked me, because there is no action I could possibly take that would let me reblog this post from my main if I were blocked. But y'all just have to lie about everything, don’t you?
sysmeds: get shitty at people for using the word ‘alter’ if they aren’t diagnosed with DID/OSDD
also sysmeds: unconsensually labels other people’s system members as alters (usually in scare quotes - you know, just to remind you they don’t think you exist) even when the system doesn’t use the term
???? make it make sense
You lot cleary don’t care enough about labels to realise that “sysmed” is a transphobic term
It’s not, it’s recognizing that y'all are doing the exact same shit with plurality that your forebears did with transness: Trying to medicalize it and frame it as solely a cause of suffering.
It’s something that trans people have been recognizing and calling out.
It is not transphobic for trans people to point out parallels to the tactics used to hurt them. It is VERY transphobic to insist that trans people shut up about these parallels.
And none of this has any bearing on the fact that it’s really shitty to tell someone they can’t use a term, then force it on them.
Sincerely, a system with zero cis members and for whom “alter” is a fighting word.
gentle reminder to all discoursers:
⭐️ it’s ok to make mistakes as long as you admit, learn, and grow from them ⭐️
Post link
TW: Mod : Suibaiting
This is a warning post
very interesting that @sysmedsshoulddie, who happily uses a transphobic term and blames random systems for their partner dying, has their asks off because theyre too scared to face consequences for their actions
Dude. That user (using they/them cause uncertain atm) just opened up about their partner killing himself. I don’t support their actions but can you maybe not be an asshole about someone who is clearly hurting, or at the worst ideal, attention seeking?
i see your point but i struggle to have any compassion for someone who is attacking an entire community of traumatized people because of the actions of a radicalized few. you tried to reach out to them and they blatantly attacked you without care.
going through a hard time does not excuse their actions whatsoever and they need to face the social consequences for being a terrible person. i’m not trying to suicide bait them back in turn but their failure to consider that random systems in the anti-endo tags are not at fault for their partners tragedy makes it very difficult for me to care.
very interesting that @sysmedsshoulddie, who happily uses a transphobic term and blames random systems for their partner dying, has their asks off because theyre too scared to face consequences for their actions
1. this blog isnt dedicated to telling others to off themselves
2. if i dont have asks on, its bc im on mobile and its much harder to manage the inbox on mobile
very interesting that @sysmedsshoulddie, who happily uses a transphobic term and blames random systems for their partner dying, has their asks off because theyre too scared to face consequences for their actions
hot takes about endogenics:
i am anti-endo in the sense that I don’t believe in non-disordered systems and am against intention creations of systems, but am pro-endo on whether or not a system can exist without trauma (but only in a very nuancrf way).
allow me to elaborate.
if it were possible for someone to be an endogenic system, as in a system not caused by trauma, they would still be experiencing dissociation in some way. alters are dissocative parts. that means it would still be a dissociative disorder. i am not against the idea of systems that are not caused by trauma, but i am against the idea that they are not caused by a disorder.
dissociation is not inherently caused by trauma. i believe that it could be possible to have a dissocative disorder that looks a lot like a system i the way it does in DID/OSDD, even one that is self created (which i am against, as creating yourself a dissociative disorder is not a good idea). but it is inherently a disordered experience and i am completely anti-endo in the sense that i am against the idea that plurality is a non-disordered experience. it would not be like did/osdd in the sense that it would not be a developmental trauma response disorder, but the disorder could involve a system. but a system means dissociative parts, and that means disorder.
theres several dissociative disorders in the dsm which people include with discussing systems. just because it is under researched does not mean that it is impossible for another disorder that includes non-traumagenic systems does not exist.
there’s even a type of osdd that includes people who have a dissociative disorder that formed in adulthood, although their alters are as a result of identity confusion as opposed to fragmented identities. but i do believe that could be considered a system, as can other experiences like it
however, as a critical subpoint:
I am fully against the intentional self creation of a system. tulpamancy is a closed practice so that is awful within its own right, but any form of self-created system is incredibly harmful. this includes trying to increase dissociation between various aspects of yourself, such as your “work self” and “home self”, as well as trying to create new headmate in any form. im against the idea of anyone trying to intentionally give themselves a disorder at all.
i as mentioned, i am against the endogenic community as a whole for a variety of reasons. a rapid fire not extensive list includes:
- their support of the idea of non-disordered systems
- their ableism towards the idea of “being disordered”
- their support of self-created systems
- how a lot of them seem to reaffirm and intentionally trigger delusions. a lot of them see no issues with telling people who experience hallucinations and psychosis that they are a system because they “hear voices” and that those voices have “self agency”. no. no no no. no.
- the large amounts of misinformation they spread
yall are free to tell me your thoughts on this though. i always accept that i can be wrong /gen
- Mikey
I am a traumagenic system, and also non disordered. We originated from trauma, but we do not meet the criteria for DID or OSDD, and we do not experience distress related to being a system. We do not wish to medicalise our experience of systemhood at all.
So, which part of our identity are you gonna wish to invalidate to make your theory still viable?
Personally I fail to see how dissociative experiences are inherently disordered, nor do I see how forming a system is inherently harmful. Can you justify these points OP?
Traumagenic as fuck here. We’re definitely disordered in other ways, but not this one; in fact, our plurality helps us manage our issues. We also found out we were plural when we tried to develop a new mode of thinking and accidentally made a headmate.
Go ahead, I’d like to hear how we fit this theory.
another traumagenic system weighing in; we certainly were formed through horrific experiences but our plurality isn’t a disorder now. we’ve learned to cooperate and manage our life in ways such that plurality HELPS us cope with the things in life (eg anxiety, depression, adhd) that are actually getting in the way of our ability to function.
Therapists and psychiatrists and psych nurses etc are not required to tell you, “No you’re fine, you’re not disordered at all!” if you come to them and ask them straight up, “Do we fit the criteria for this disorder or not”.
When you’ve had several, including a trauma and dissociative disorders specialist who’s very prominent in the research on DID, say flat out “If being many in one head doesn’t cause you distress or dysfunction it’s by definition not a disorder”? But anti-endos with more hate-fueled ignorance in their veins than actual blood say crap like “No that’s impossible, you’re either disordered or faking”?
Seriously, which should you believe, the experts or the trolls?
The sheer audacity of the trolls who insist they’re right and the experts are wrong really astonishes me lol
