I’ve been involved (in some way or another) with what has come to be known as the ‘ace discourse’ for a couple of years now. i’ve watched a debate on whether or not asexual people can personally reclaim the word ‘queer’ expand into a horrifying argument encompassing such topics as ‘ace exclusionists are as bad as TERFs’ and ‘asexual people deserve death’.
i’m writing this now to try and convey the biggest lesson i learned from this shitshow: learn when to let it the fuck go. debating internet strangers on the minutiae of what sexuality headcanon you can have for the literal moon isn’t doing shit for you, or anybody else.
you aren’t going to convince that equally-rabid blog with an anime icon that doves don’t look like that. you aren’t going to change a single goddamn thing about how asexual people exist or are treated. it doesn’t matter if you spend hours lying about your race/religion/HIV status, you’re never going to convince someone that you’re right by adding ‘pee your pants’ to their posts.
i was pretty into the discourse when this blog was more active, and i am 100% guilty of most of the above. the discourse did not make my activism better, it did not help anybody around me, and it sure as hell didn’t make me a better person. if anything, it made me a worse person.
i was convinced that i was right and everybody who agreed with me was perfect and that nothing could change that. i was constantly on the hunt for minor slip-ups from people on the opposite ‘side’ as i was, while being super paranoid about making mistakes of my own.
when i did make mistakes, i denied them until a deluge of dogpiling and anon hate forced me into a breakdown. of course, i saw this as more proof that the ‘other side’ was irredeemably bad, ignoring the fact that, had one of them made the same mistake, i would have gleefully reblogged callout posts for them until they broke down as well.
basically, what i’m trying to say in this huge-ass wall of text is that the ace discourse is fucking horrible and is never going to benefit anybody ever. get out while you can, and for the love of someone please don’t try and drag it onto other sites when you jump ship from tumblr.
cheers, and shoutout to my followers for sticking around,
aphobe-nonsense
oh and one more thing:
this post isn’t trying to boost one side over another. the point is that, while i obviously have my own opinion, which i think is valid and will debate the points of when such debate is relevant (like at an LGBTIA+ community meeting), the point i’m trying to make here is that the discourse itself is terrible. go take your own opinions and express them in likewise relevant spaces where you might actually make a difference. rabidly rehashing tired old arguments on a dying website isn’t helping anybody.
I was having such a nice morning until this steaming hot pile of trash showed up on my feed! Lets talk about it! Step by step now.
(No I am not censoring names, and no I am not reblogging aphobe trash takes.)
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Okay lets talk about this for a second. Strong start, “I think most/all aro’s need therapy”. Newsflash for you compadre, not feeling romantic love is perfectly fine. Idk how many times us aro’s have to say it but romance is not what makes us human. This is just rehashed rhetoric that we have seen time and time again and I don’t wanna spend too much time on it, “Not feeling sexual attraction must be a health issue”, “being a homosexual must be a health issue” its all been said before.
Thank you for letting us know you aren’t a doctor btw, never would have guessed by your obviously factual trash takes!
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You almost had a good point on this. Sexual Orientation is not a choice. However, you fell flat in the second half there. I want to make this clear to any and all aro’s, ace’s, and anyone questioning reading this. There is nothing wrong with relating your experience to past trauma. It doesn’t mean you aren’t really aro or ace, and it doesn’t mean you need therapy to “fix” something in you so you start to feel Romantic or Sexual attraction again. End of story.
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Final screenshot and again you almost had a point here. Asexuality and Aromanticism are real orientations no matter if you like it or not. Again though, you fall off. Aromanticism is not a health issue. Like I said in the beginning, orientations in the community have always been called health issues by people from homophobes to aphobes. People who come to terms with their Aromanticism or Asexuality after experiencing a trauma are not “faking it” and no matter how it came about or how a person came to terms with it, what they are feeling is “Real Asexuality” and “Real Aromanticism”.
As a final note, never let posts like this one discourage you from exploring your identity. Trauma does not invalidate your orientation, and trauma does not suddenly make what you are feeling a medical issue that needs to be “fixed”. No matter how you come to terms with your orientation (whether that be through processing or relating it to past trauma or trying on labels as you explore) the only thing it’ll ever make you, is yourself. No romo losers, have a lovely day
LGBT people: share an experience that is based on persecution of our sexuality and gender expression, have formed spaces to openly express our sexuality and our relationship with gender as safely as possible (even though we still sometimes get killed for it when in those spaces)
Acey-beans: we should center LGBT spaces around REAL shared experiences outside of heteronormativity! Like cake! UwU
Fucking GLAAD: Hey can we be more discrete with our lan-
Exclus: OH SO YOU WANT ME TO STOP BEING GAY? DO YOU WANT ME TO BE ERASED? YOU WANT ACES TO TAKE OVER? I’LL HAVE YOU KNOW MY TWO GRANDFATHERS DIED AT STONEWALL FOR ME TO ALIENATE ASEXUALS AT ANY GIVEN OPPORTUNITY. GOOD DAY, SIR. I SAID GOOD DAY!
Just admit that you’re a homophobe.
If you don’t want LGBT people to have spaces where we can actually safely express our sexuality, but instead cater to people whose identity is based on a disconnect from the sexual experience, then you’re a homophobe, plain and simple.
You goobers literally NEVER make these demands of the average cis-het. No, you be these demands of LGBT people.
You are toxic. You are bullies. You are homophobes.
*raises hand* I would like if everyone could keep it in their pants unless they are in privacy or at a club… That’s just kind of how I feel as a modest human being who would like to walk down the street and see kind gestures of love rather than two people engaging in foreplay on the sidewalk. People of all sexualities should be able to show affection or sexuality, but at the right time please.
Where the fuck are you going where there’s “foreplay on the sidewalk”? That’s pure hyperbole and a total dodge.
Even the Leather floats at Pride parades are never any less scantily clad than billboards for stripper clubs on the freeway – but Poor Pweshuss Smol Ace Beans would rather bully LGBT orgs to “de-sexualise LGBTOMFGWTFBBQ spaces,” rather than cis-het society, which is homophobia, pure and simple.
If they actually cared about what they perceived as an overall oversaturation of sexuality in society, they’d join forces with feminist groups, but they don’t, cos they’re misogynistic, in addition to homophobic.
[Handwritte in pink and purple: “If aroaces actually felt like addressing the root problems of a society that pushes the idea that everyone wants a relationship/family and that sex isn’t owed to anyone instead of insisting they’re the only ones who face these issues caused by rape culture and mysoginy then MAYBE we would get somewhere in worthwhile discussions”]
This is an example of hate.
Wow, I got certified! Credit me next time you take my post!
It’s just facts, though.
Like, this is legit a matter of misogyny, rape culture, and toxic masculinity (which is a byproduct of misogyny). Nothing about that is a concern unique to the asexual experience. It’s a matter of the human experience.
Plenty of “allosexual” people don’t want to have a family! The child free and VHEMT communities have been around for decades.
Not everyone, including “allos” want sex or a relationship - right now, maybe ever! Why? Plenty of reasons. I literally took about eight years off from dating and sex during early stages of my transitiong, simply because of dysphoria (it’s also not uncommon for trans people to just mentally “shut off” our feelings of sexual attraction because of dysphoria – it’s such a common reaction to dysphoria, and has many decades of documentation, I’m even willing to bet that a strong majority of asexual-identifying trans people actually aren’t asexual, and they’ll discover this at some point in the course of transitioning)
The only reason that I can imagine why there are so many asexual people who believe that these are “unique asexual experience” is some combination of unaddressed misogyny and a case of terminal uniqueness.
[“Terminal uniqueness” isn’t just common to substance abusers, but it’s frankly also a common feeling during adolescence, and most people who feel it as teenagers outgrow it.]
LGBT people: share an experience that is based on persecution of our sexuality and gender expression, have formed spaces to openly express our sexuality and our relationship with gender as safely as possible (even though we still sometimes get killed for it when in those spaces)
Acey-beans: we should center LGBT spaces around REAL shared experiences outside of heteronormativity! Like cake! UwU
Fucking GLAAD: Hey can we be more discrete with our lan-
Exclus: OH SO YOU WANT ME TO STOP BEING GAY? DO YOU WANT ME TO BE ERASED? YOU WANT ACES TO TAKE OVER? I’LL HAVE YOU KNOW MY TWO GRANDFATHERS DIED AT STONEWALL FOR ME TO ALIENATE ASEXUALS AT ANY GIVEN OPPORTUNITY. GOOD DAY, SIR. I SAID GOOD DAY!
Just admit that you’re a homophobe.
If you don’t want LGBT people to have spaces where we can actually safely express our sexuality, but instead cater to people whose identity is based on a disconnect from the sexual experience, then you’re a homophobe, plain and simple.
You goobers literally NEVER make these demands of the average cis-het. No, you be these demands of LGBT people.
You are toxic. You are bullies. You are homophobes.
LGBT people: share an experience that is based on persecution of our sexuality and gender expression, have formed spaces to openly express our sexuality and our relationship with gender as safely as possible (even though we still sometimes get killed for it when in those spaces)
Acey-beans: we should center LGBT spaces around REAL shared experiences outside of heteronormativity! Like cake! UwU
Next time someone says that ‘aphobia’ isn’t a thing, show them this.
This is why it’s so important to educate people about asexuality. Through my work, I’ve encountered many people who aren’t just ignorant when it came to asexuality, they’re aggressively against it. There are asexual people who don’t want to come out just so that they don’t have to experience remarks like the ones I’m reading out there.
More often than not, the letter ‘A’ hanging out at the end of the LGBTQIA+ acronym is either overlooked or, worse, ignored.
Although representation and visibility is improving, asexuality (applied to a person who does not experience sexual attraction) is still met with confusion.
With that in mind, Attitude asked asexual activist, model and writer Yasmin Benoit to lead a conversation about her community with two other asexuals, Daniel Walker and Richard Ng, in the Attitude Sex & Sexuality issue, out now to download andto order globally.
Shining a light on the different shades of asexuality, the trio unravel the knottiest issues they have had to face – including the most maddening misconceptions…
Yasmin Benoit - 24, asexual and aromantic (not desiring of romantic relationships at all)
“I have overwhelmingly been met, after I initially came out, with straight-up disbelief… It can get some messy reactions; I’ve had times where I’ll be sitting at someone’s house, drinking a cup of tea, talking about a TV show, and then the next thing you know, I’ve got six people asking me about how often I masturbate and what’s that like.
"I’m like, ‘I’m just here to drink a cup of tea, that’s not what we’re doing today’. It invites some very inappropriate, sometimes aggressive, sometimes very uncomfortable reactions.
"Whenever people say to me, 'If you haven’t had sex, you can’t know’ – especially if a guy says that, a straight guy – I’m, like, 'Well, how much gay sex did you have before you realised you were straight?’ Usually, you quickly find that they didn’t have much gay sex before they determined they were straight.
"Also, when they say you haven’t found the right person yet – there are loads of asexual people who have found the right person and they’re still asexual; they’re in love with the person, they have a family with the person, they’re in a platonic relationship, they’re soulmates.”
Daniel Walker - 24, asexual and homoromantic (romantically by not sexually attracted to the same gender)
“I definitely see people assuming it’s a mental health issue, or you’re depressed, that’s what’s causing your asexuality. Or even in some extreme cases, that when they find out someone is asexual, they assume someone must have been traumatised.
"What I have seen quite a lot recently is the misconception that asexuality means that the person is inherently non-sexual.
"What I mean by that is, asexuality is defined by a lack of sexual attraction, but that is completely separate from a lot of other things which are sexual; for example, having sex or masturbating or watching porn or even dressing in a way that society would see as sexual.
"People assume that if you’re asexual, you must completely desexualise your appearance, and you can’t masturbate and you can’t watch porn, whereas I feel like – I don’t know, it’s not a standard other orientations are held to.”
Richard Ng - 25, asexual and heteroromantic (romantically but not sexually attracted to the opposite gender)
“For me, the biggest [misconception] is this idea of, 'You couldn’t possibly know that you’re asexual, because sex is a good thing and if you had experienced it…’
"There’s lots of things in that: Firstly, equating sexual orientation with sexual activity: I personally don’t engage in sexual activity, but obviously some asexual people do… If I say I’m asexual, they’ll refuse to accept it because, as it happens, I’m a virgin, I’ve never had sex, and they will read into that 'Oh well, you are naive about this, you couldn’t possibly know that you’re asexual, you’ve just not met the right person’.
"My parents are actually GPs and when I first came out to them, I can’t remember exactly how, but there was this sort of like, 'Maybe you need to see someone about this’. I don’t know, latent testosterone or something like that.”
I’m incredibly grateful for the opportunity to discuss asexual representation in the media on such an esteemed platform. Thank you to everyone, particularly Adam Key, who made this possible in a national lockdown. I hope you like it. I’ve been waiting a while to say this… Thank you for listening to my TED Talk!
I was 10 years old when I started to wonder if there was something wrong with me. I realised I was asexual around the same time as my peers realised they weren’t. In late primary school, the boys and girls didn’t want to play together anymore - they ‘fancied’ and wanted to 'go out’ with each other. I watched girls fighting over boy drama in the cafeteria and wondered what had gotten into everyone.
That’s when I decided I’d attend an all girls’ school under the naive belief that, in the absence of boys, none of the girls would care about sex or dating. I quickly discovered that a same-sex environment had the opposite effect.
By the time I was a teenager, my peers started to wonder what was wrong with me. The sexual frustration was turned up to 100, which made it all the more obvious that I wasn’t reacting the same way as the other teens. While their sexuality was directed towards any nearby boy, a poster of a boy, or even each other, mine wasn’t directed anywhere. And other people wanted to work out why that was more than I did.
Before believing that it was just my innate sexuality, it was easier to assume that I was gay and in denial. Maybe I was molested as a kid and I’d forgotten about it, but been left with psychological scars. I could be hiding a hidden perversion – my dad asked me whether I was into inanimate objects or children when I told him that I wasn’t attracted to men or women. I might be a psychopath, unable to empathise with people enough to deem them attractive. The theory that held the most weight was that I was 'mentally stunted’, and I was treated as such. I started to wonder if they were right.
At 15, I learned the word asexual. It was during yet another analysis session of my sexuality at school. I described myself as not being attracted to men or women for the thousandth time, and someone suggested I might be “asexual or something.” With a quick Google search, I realised I wasn’t alone. Asexuality is a term used to describe those who experience a lack of sexual attraction and/or low levels of sexual desire towards others.
It wasn’t a mental or physical disorder, or a personality flaw, or anything related to my appearance or my life experiences. It wasn’t the same as being celibate, or anti-sex, or just being a ‘late bloomer.’ It was a legitimate sexual orientation characterised purely by a lack of sexual attraction or desire, meaning that it had no implications on whether an asexual could masturbate, or actually enjoy sex, or have children, or be in a romantic relationship. There were no limitations, just a way to bring a lot of people under one united umbrella.
I had finally found an answer to everyone’s question… only, no one else knew what the hell I was talking about. Unfortunately, that didn’t stop them from spewing the same ignorant views I had been hearing for years.
To an extent, I can’t blame them. It’s been almost 10 years since I discovered the term and it is barely part of public consciousness. It isn’t included in sex education or any conversations about sexuality. We’re left out of policies, pathologised in psychiatry and there is next-to-no representation for asexual people in the media. You can count positive examples on one hand. Most of the time, asexuality is either a fleeting reference, the butt of a joke, or a trait in a character that’s either an alien, robotic, or evil – a manifestation of their lack of empathy. Think your Sheldon Cooper, your Data from Star Trek, your Lord Voldemort.
Especially for women, it’s seen as a symptom of their prudishness, unattractiveness or overall blandness, which needs to be resolved by the end of the plot so they can be complete, appealing, lovable people. After all, being virginal is a good thing, perpetual sexual unavailability is not, particularly when you need a loving sexual relationship to be whole. Even our non-fiction portrayals tend to conform to stereotypes and perpetuate a ‘woe is them’ narrative. And among all of these things, they’re probably white, occasionally East Asian, but never Black. Black people are hypersexualised to the point where that would become contradictory and confusing for the audience. And that’s what I would end up being.
When I first mentioned on social media that I was asexual, I had no intention of becoming a voice for the asexual community. It seemed too unlikely to contemplate. After all, I was a Black gothic student from Berkshire who got sat on at school because I was that invisible. On top of that, my work as an alternative lingerie model meant I was far from the girl/boy-next-door like the asexual activists who had come before me. But, apparently, that’s what the community wanted. From there, my activism took off.
I quickly found myself becoming one of the community’s most prominent - but unlikely - faces. I used my platform to raise awareness for asexuality, empower asexual people, dispel misconceptions and promote our inclusion in spaces we’ve traditionally been left out of. From incorporating asexuality into lingerie campaigns, speaking at government institutions, being the first openly asexual person to appear on LGBTQ+magazine covers, and opening asexual spaces, my work has been intersectional if not a little controversial.
I had never experienced hatred online like I have since speaking openly about asexuality. Only through my work did I become aware of acephobia and the exclusionary discourse surrounding what at first seems like an inoffensive and discreet orientation. It’s shown me how important asexuality activism is, and it’s made me aware of just how diverse, powerful and unique the asexual community is. How they stand up for the rights of others even when we’re ignored ourselves, how they’ll never let their invisibility stop them from developing their own unique culture, history, and progressive understanding of human sexuality and love.
This week is Asexual Awareness Week, an occasion founded by Sara Beth Brooks a decade ago. It’s one of the few times in the year that the community demands to be seen and people start looking.
Anyway someone got triggered and spammed a shit ton of black lives matter and reverse racism doesn’t exist bs on snapchat and like?? How dumb can you get??? Reverse racism DOES exist ok??? And how about ALL lives matter ok if you want equality you shouldn’t be treated differently than white ppl when it comes to police shootings and shit. You shouldn’t be treated like a special snowflake bc our ancestors were shitty ppl ok
Ew pls stop, this is all so very very B A D.
Everyone, pls block this racist & ableist asshat (inclusionist, btw).
how tf can you continue to insist that “allo” is a slur but then wield “aceys” and “asexies” as if they’re harmless jokes? IMHO, aceys and asexies are being used much more consistently as slurs than allo; which actually serves a REAL purpose linguistically whilst aceys and asexies exist purely to harm us. I’ve only ever seen allo used (seemingly) genuinely offensively twice but aceys and asexies are used to PURELY offend all. the. time.
but of course, it never counts if it’s against us aceys amirite?!?!
asexies is a slur now
never said it was but i knew jerks like you would jump on my post and insist that’s my argument.
to be clear, my point is this:
none of them are in fact slurs but allo(romantic/sexual) gets called a slur for the exact same reasons that the words “aceys” and “asexies” were actually explicitly created: with the intention of harming the entire aspec community. i’m saying that this is transparent, hypocritical, and aphobic as fuck and it’s gotta stop now.
Forewarning. This will probably get rambly. Expect it. I’m tired as hell and I got shit I want to say. It might not be worded as poetically as you assholes want, but at this point I’m done caring.
Anyway.
You know. I love how exclusionists automatically assume just because, yeah, aspecs actually HAVE gone through some shit and we’ve been harmed for being associated with the queer community, that we’re trying to push the idea that it’s been to the same extent. Yeah. Most of the backlash against us from straight people has come from the thought that “not being het” = “gay”. You’re right there.
And we know. What we go through is not the same extent. A lot of times (though there are things, and I’ll get to that) it’s not just because we’re aspec. We’ve said that.
Hear me out here before you start squawking. And for the love of all that’s good left in the world, don’t start up with the slur thing. There’s a dozen other posts on that. You don’t want to be called it? Great. My bi ass will. Cause we fought for that shitty word when there wasn’t anything to call ourselves, and you’ll give it back to those bigots after you pry it from my cold, dead, fingers.
Anyway. There’s this thing that’s called “generalized prejudice”. AKA, the notion that bigotry can be generalized across similar groups. Anything with any suffix of sexual besides hetero is automatically Wrong and Gay and Unnatural and Dangerous. You’re not straight? You’re not normal.
Parents who would send their gay, bi, pan, and trans kids send their ace kids to conversation therapy as well. Corrective rape is a BIG thing. That it does happen shows that there’s something in the mindset. Due to this, aspecs are, in fact, harmed and submitted to violence.
I know for myself I certainly didn’t get the best reception when I told my family. Luckily it wasn’t violent for me, but you know that thing you guys do with the “I’m sure Christians love you”.
Yeah. No. Because, and I quote here “God made man for women, and expected them to be with each other. And in marriage be open to each other’s needs. If you can’t give that to someone you shouldn’t marry. Because that’d be a sin.”
(First off, asexuality doesn’t mean you can’t have sex, even though I personally don’t want to have it. It’s just a lack of attraction (not libido. That’s something else.) Second of all, thanks for letting me know not to tell you about the bi thing. Don’t worry. Not opening up about this shit again.)
And there are others who’ve gotten worse. You’re right. Mine wasn’t as bad as a lot of you get, but can we all just agree it really hurts and sucks to be told you’re shit for your sexuality? Can we all agree that attitudes like this tend to cause bigger, more violent problems? Especially as more people become aware of it being a thing? That this has been a big issue and fucked up a lot of people?
“You weren’t there like we were in the start. You don’t deserve to be here after all the shit we went through. It’s because they think you’re gay, like you said! It’s homophobia, not aphobia!”
First of all we were here. We just weren’t under our own name, because we didn’t have it. Pansexuals were here as well, and so were nonbianary people. Most of us, knowing we weren’t straight but only having a select number of things to align ourselves with, dispersed under other groups. Lots of us ended up under the bisexual umbrella. Hell. A lot of us still do before we realize this is a thing.
“Well, I don’t like the opposite gender. So maybe I’m gay?”
“Okay, I don’t seem interested in any, but that would mean…maybe I’m interested in others equally? Am I bisexual or pan?”
Like. Shit. Just the sheer amount of it happening today where the aspec identities ARE a thing that’s known should give a hint of how common it would be earlier when it WASN’T known. Plus, we know we were around, because we were described. Even by some prominent leaders in the community.
A few overall examples. From the article for those who don’t want to wade through it:
“The earliest use of the word ‘asexual’ which I have been able to find (up to now), is in a 1896 pamphlet called “Sappho und Sokrates” by Magnus Hirschfeld, an influential German sexologist and activist for LGBT emancipation.”
“Ralph Werther – Jennie June was an outspoken transgender person who wrote extensively about his life and the New York LGBT scene at the turn of the century. He uses the word ‘anaphrodite‘ to describe people who are “not suffused with adoration for any type of human” and who “shudder violently at the very thought of any kind of association grounded on sex differences”
“Researchers like Magnus Hirschfeld and Alfred Kinsey did notice and describe asexuality. It is rather remarkable that some of the most well-known sexologists make mention of asexuality, and yet we have been woefully understudied over the course of the last 150 years.”
“We are present in the works of LGBT pioneers like Magnus Hirschfeld and Ralph Werther – Jennie June (see above). It’s worth investigating how we fit into their circles: turn-of-the-century Berlin and New York. Then there are phenomena like the Boston marriages – relationships of which the main features are not just lesbian, but also asexual – and the description of asexuality as a subcategory of homosexuality in the 1978 study ‘Homosexualities’.”
We were there then. At the start. Right from the beginning. All of us who knew we weren’t straight, but didn’t have a name. Maybe we’d label ourselves as gay. Or bi. Or trans. But we were there, even if we weren’t properly labeled. We fought too. We fought alongside you and died alongside you, but we didn’t have a group to call our own. We were scattered and unseen. And because of this we don’t know a lot of our history, or figures in the movement who could be asexual. We may never know beyond speculation. But I assure you we were there.
Since then our community keeps growing. Why? If y'all really knew your history you’d know why, and you’d know just how much this community has evolved just in the past TEN years. Even less. History isn’t static. Growth happens. Change happens. It is happening. That’s not a bad thing.
Anyway, why?
Because these groups that were looked over or lumped into others are finding each other when before it wasn’t really possible like it is today, with the internet helping us connect. Because even if things aren’t as bad, there’s issues and as a community we’re striving towards equality and getting rid of violence towards non straight sexualities. This community was founded for resistance. For sanctuary. For solidarity against violence that we faced every day.
And this opening up has grown the community and our movement. It’s provided more voices to speak and more information to spread. We’ve had gatekeeping throughout our history, and every time it’s proved detrimental. To all of us. Gatekeeping in our community was why and is why many trans activists have taken longer to be recognized. Why bisexuals are still EXTREMELY underrepresented in this movement’s history.
Anyway, that article? There’s another for the 21st century. And a few more quotes to make my point, because anyone who knows me can tell you how much I love my quotes. Examples make it a lot easier to get my thoughts together. Very useful…
You say we should get our own community? We have. It still gets invaded, and we haven’t even had it long. Again. We hadn’t been able to.
“The time the first asexual communities appeared was around the start of this century. As the very beginning, you could take the article called “My Life as a Human Amoeba” by Zoe O’Reilly, which was published in 1997. Over the years, the comment section of that article filled with comments of other asexuals, telling their life stories and connection with eachother over their shared asexual experiences for – as far as we know – the very first time.2 From that article and its comment section, we have an extraordinary development into a self-assured, worldwide community that’s present on multiple online platforms as well as offline meeting groups. We are hosting conferences, marching in pride parades and we have successfully lobbied for the depathologization of asexuality in the DSM, one of the leading psychiatric manuals.3
The way we think and talk about asexuality has changed as well. Our identity and the concepts that come with it didn’t plop out of thin air. We come from a place where we had little to no concepts or words to describe our experiences. Aces have done some large-scale worthsmithing and we have come up with new words so we can name our experiences. On top of that we have created a lively discourse to make sense of ourselves and our experiences.4″
I do have to let out a chuckle at that last sentence.
“Oh, but what if they’re heterosexual aros or heteroromantic aces??? I don’t want our oppressors in this community!”
Tough shit. For many of us we’re already sharing a community with our oppressors.
Black women put up with all kinds of shit from white women. Especially when it came to queer feminists.
Transgender have to share a space with us cis people when, again, they got walked repeatedly over.
(TERFs, I’m not dealing with your shit today. Also, has anyone else noticed how many ace exclusionists are TERFs, and how many nonTERF exclusionists get uncomfortable when this gets pointed out? Yeah. I have too. And it’s bullshit.)
I, a woman, have to share a space with dudes. I, disabled, have to share a space with the abled who I’ve lived quite a bit of my life being looked down on from.
Anyone remember that “A stands for Ally” fiasco? I do. People were wanting straight allies over us. The excuse?
“Well, you see, that’s ACTUALLY there for closeted individuals to be in the community without outing themselves. ╮(╯▽╰)╭”
Sure. Okay. Yeah. Here’s where I found that funny. Even if the A didn’t stand for Ally, they could still say they’re allies and, should they be going to pride or something, say they’re supporting a friend. Or, if it’s so delicate, not say anything to anyone if they feel unsafe. Because it’s likely a family that’s bigoted towards the community would hate them giving their support as well.
“Well…they’re questioning! ╮(╯▽╰)╭”
Great. The Q is for questioning and queer.
“They’re taking our resources! (*´>д
What resources are in such limited supplies that you have to worry about this shit???????
Asexuals aren’t harming you. The only reason they’re “in the spotlight” is because you stir up all this shit and put them there.
“But here’s some aces being homophobic and gross and they’re all horrible people who somehow support pedophilia!
Here’s links to MORE being cringy and acting like they’re better and pure and shit!
IF WE LET THEM IN EVERYONE WHO’S ~~QUIRKY~~ WILL WANT IN TOO! KINKS AND FURRIES AND PEDOPHILES!!!! ヽ(｀Д´)ﾉ”
What. Even. The fuck. And yes. I heard this. More than once.
Addressing this in chunks:
Okay. Don’t know where that pedophile thing comes from. At all. I don’t understand it, and I kinda am scared to. I might lose my last shred of faith in humanity. I THINK, since I’ve heard this much at least, it has something to do with that:
“We can’t talk to kids about asexuality because then we’d have to talk to them about SEX. With the others we can just talk about the romantic aspect, but oh my goodness. The kids will be so messed up!”
Am I the only one seeing the irony in this? First off. A lot of kids can feel sexual attraction by the age of eight. Most by the age of ten to eleven. I’m twenty and I’m still getting that “well, maybe you’re a late bloomer” shit. I’m TWENTY. Almost TWENTY-ONE. Shit. If I realized this wasn’t normal sooner…well. That would have been really nice.
Homophobic: Most of what I see here are young teens and preteens screwing up their wording and getting attacked. Or relying on misinformation, because they’re young. But really. Many of you are grown adults. Stop attacking kids who clearly misspoke or are ignorant. Shit. Most of us have been there. Getting death threats in your ask doesn’t help.
And not everyone is nice. Yeah. There’s gonna be some shitty ace people. Just like there’s transphobic community members. And biphobic. And so on and so on and so on. Because sucky people exist everywhere. What a concept.
And no. That’s not comparable to that “gay people can be heterophobic” shit. Please. Stop. Aces are not straight. Heterophobia does not exist. And straight pride month should not be a thing. Did I get that covered? Great.
Also, the asexual community has a high percentage of autistics, myself included. You know what one common thing is with autistics? We tend to have trouble getting across our meanings. If you all could just ask “Hey, is this what you really meant by this? If so that’s kinda messed up. If not, can you explain?” that’d take out a whole lotta drama. Cause then we can go “Actually, no. I meant X. Let me make that more clear. Thanks for pointing that out to me!”
So much easier. So. So much easier.
Most of the other offensive shit seems to stem from tweens in their cringe phase (really. Most of us were there. Stop sending hate mail to ignorant middle schoolers), parody blogs, or, *gasp*, other exclusionists making fake blogs to purposefully stir up trouble. Geez. The sheer amount of those blogs. Find better things to do, damn it.
Then again. These are the same people who flood the Ace tag with dozens of hate posts about how shitty we are and how the community doesn’t want us, and do that:
“Boo hoo. Aren’t I so discriminatory? We get killed, bitch. Stop you’re whining. SOME of us have more to worry about then claiming to get bullied on Tumblr. Stop being a snowflake.”
It really shouldn’t be that surprising at this point. And yes, that too is something that’s almost word for word of another post. Because the discourse is shitty.
Okay. You see, kinks aren’t a sexuality. Pedophilia isn’t a sexuality and phedos actively pray on children and children can’t give consent, so they’re fucked up. Furries…yeah. Why? What logic would lead you to believe letting in asexuals is a gateway for furries?
Please. Stop. I’m tired. This month is supposed to be about celebrating our history and the people who fought to bring us where we are. Just for one month can we stop being petty assholes to each other? Just one month? I mean. I’d LOVE to say forever, but I realize that’s just not realistic.
A few last notes to cover my ass and make my thoughts clear about the normal shit storms that usually follow these kinds of posts.
First off. If one more person starts whining about “having their identity” used as a tactic by inclusionists, I’m gonna lose it. It’s not a cheap tactic. Inclusionists come from all backgrounds you assholes.
I’m not harboring some inner biphobia for connecting events from one part of my identity to another. The trans women inclusionist isn’t transphobic for talking about it. The lesbian inclusionist isn’t a “traitor” for pointing out how ridiculous you’re being. Stop being assholes. It’s not just your identity. It’s the identity of people on both sides and you need to stop trying to shit on people. Yeah, I spoke about more than just bisexual. Because I’m not the only one saying this. In fact, most of those points I got from others. Who were trans, and pan, and lesbians. I got followers who talk about it. It’s not just me talking here and they need to be respected for the points they’ve made as well.
Two. If I hear anyone talking about that ridiculous “corrective rape is a lesbian term” you’re going to get a real history lesson on its origins. Because you’re 100% wrong and I’m tired of uninformed bullshit.
I’m tired of this shitty discourse. Aspecs are not hurting you. Aspecs are not hurting you. Aspecs are not hurting you. Inclusion does not harm the community. Inclusion does give resources to kids who could be in harmful situations.
For one month. Just take a break from being hateful assholes. One month. Just…just one freaking month.
Anyway. Happy pride.
To my lesbians. Your flag looks great. Sorry Tumblr staff forgot you guys. There also isn’t much on Google. Tried to find some variety. :(
To my gay bros. Remember the meaning your colors represent.
To all you pans. Keep being punny, and spread the love. You’re all great.
To my trans friends. Don’t let the TERFs get you down. Trans women are women. Trans men are men. You are not predators. You are not dangerous. You are fully yourself.
To my bi peeps. We’re amazing. You’re not “half straight” or “Half gay”. Doesn’t matter if you’re in a same or opposite sex relationship. You’re still full on bi. Don’t take shit.
To my aces. You’re not straight. You’re not broken. You’re not less. You are always welcome. Exclusionists on Tumblr do not represent the wider belief.
To my aros, I’m sorry people forget about you so much. And remember that there’s many different types of love. You’re not gross for not feeling romantic love. You’re not cold. You’re not predatory for those of you wanting sexual relationships without romance.
For those who are both aro and ace, you’re not devoid of emotion. You’re not subhuman. You’re individuals and love can be expressed in so many ways. If you’re in the grey area, that’s fine too.
I love all of you. I couldn’t really find much for nonbianary and genderfluid, but you all rock as well.
We are a community, and we need to hold each other up if we want to continue moving forward. Division hurts us all.
Also, for my friends who are also black, muslim, disabled, female, Native American, Hispanic and in other groups that are struggling with additional fear this year with all the shit going on. Keep your head up. Keep fighting.
Holy shit @shadowkat678, I officially dub this the most awesome and prideful pride 2017 post I’ve seen yet!! What an amazing and well written journey, thank you so much.
Everyone, please signal boost this far and wide!!
I just wanna add that as I was reading this I was literally chatting with OP and sending them my thoughts and opinions about nearly each paragraph. It was a serious emotional journey because I can identify with almost all of it. However, I don’t have it in me to repeat all those thoughts and I don’t think you all wanna read it anyway bc this is a long enough post as it is.
But as a phd student and criminologist (& cis, panromantic, demisexual), I would like to just provide a short-ish quote that explains fairly well how “generalized prejudice” works, and does in fact lead to aphobia:
Our findings are in keeping with Herek’s (2010) “differences as deficits” model of sexual orientation, where sexual minorities deviating from the norm are considered substandard and deserving of negativity by the majority. This model is gradually becoming less applicable to homosexuals and bisexuals with changes in societal norms (Herek, 2010), consistent with our findings that homosexuals (and in some cases bisexuals) were viewed as equally or more human than the heterosexual ingroup. However, we posit that asexuals fit well within the “differences as deficits” framework. Asexuals are the sexual minority that is most clearly considered “deficient” by heterosexuals. In keeping with this interpretation, themes relevant to maintaining the status quo and group dominance (RWA and SDO, respectively) proved consistently important in predicting antiasexual attitudes, whereas concerns with positive ingroup identity and religious fundamentalism were less uniquely important.
Although antiasexual bias is a clear component of sexual minority prejudice, it is also unique in that it was repeatedly stronger than bias toward other sexual minorities. Most disturbingly, asexuals are viewed as less human, especially lacking in terms of human nature. This confirms that sexual desire is considered a key component of human nature, and those lacking it are viewed as relatively deficient, less human, and disliked. It appears that asexuals do not “fit” the typical definition of human and as such are viewed as less human or even nonhuman, rendering them an extreme sexual orientation outgroup and very strong targets of bias. Future research can address the mechanisms underlying this tendency. [emphasis mine]
And while this study definitely has its problems (e.g., it compares asexuality & sapiosexuality and defines asexuality wrong, which i argue is more evidence of anti-ace bias bc society and those studying us can’t even get a handle on “what” we are…) it’s still important bc it shows us that there is in FACT a systematically enforced anti-ace bias. Bc if it wasn’t systemic it wouldn’t be an identifiable & measurable social pattern!!!
Plus, ppl willing to discriminate is literally a large part of how discrimination and oppression work. When people literally say how and why they would hypothetically discriminate against a whole category of “different” people, you need to take that clearly stated BIGOTRY seriously and stop talking down to & over us, and telling us to just shut up about it.
noah fence but why are dyadic ace-exclusionists talking about intersex people “not wanting to be lgbt” when we’re not a hivemind and it’s an intracommunity issue with intersex people ourselves, which is a WHOLE different issue separate from ace discourse
i consider myself lgbtqia+ for being intersex, if another intersex person disagrees then this is an intersex intracommunity issue, and an entirely different discourse that should solely be made up of intersex people.
dyadic/perisex/non-intersex people need to stop bring up intersex people into ace discourse. ESPECIALLY if you’re trying to speak for us “as a community”. we’re all individual people with our own ideas of what it means to be LGBT(QIA+).
andplease,for the love of christ, stop saying “the intersex community has said they don’t want to be lgbt” because i don’t remember being invited to a fucking intersex meeting where we all unanimously agreed to remove the I from LGBTQIA+. this is an intracommunity issue that non-intersex people should not be involved in.
As an intersex inclusionist, I could not agree more with OP. Pls, FTLOG, STOP speaking over us to use our intra community issues as tools for a gotchya. S T O P!!!!!!
really is telling how one of the most basic things that gay people ask for—happiness, safety, and legal status in a relationship with the one you love—is something that is met with derision or mockery in the ‘lgbt community.’ it’s because it’s something that people who are just playing gay cannot connect with, and something that they don’t put a lot of stock in. that’s why you’ll see things like gay marriage put down as gay assimilation, and that’s why you’ll see the promotion of happy, healthy gay couples called homonormativity. it’s such a basic desire, and you can really just tell when someone who’s never dreamt of asking for it in their lives (i.e., straight people, asexual people). because they don’t need to and they don’t think that you should ask for it either
it’s just hurtful. people who never had to contend with the idea that they could be denied services, jailed, beaten, killed, excommunicated from a church, or otherwise socially marginalized for a relationship are being allowed to define what is “useful” activism regarding relationships. people who never felt dirty and wrong and unnatural and against god for their childhood crushes get to say whatever they want under the umbrella ‘queer.’ which they claim not because it’s politically useful, but because it erases the line between who is same-sex attracted and who is not.
and yet they still have the audacity to say the dumbest lines. not gay as in happy, but queer as in fuck you. out of the mouth of a man who has only ever desired women. i hate it.
In 2015 in the US our rights movement actually accomplished real normality for us and that just made a bunch of heterosexuals lose their minds. They invited themselves in, claimed to be one of us for asinine reasons (”oh I’m a sapiosexual panromantic greyace agender person!”) and insisted that things needed to be “queered” up again. We had to be out there. We had to be freaks. We had to be counter-culture and shocking. We had to be their wild entertainment that they never thought would actually gain equality even while they praised themselves for paying us lipservice.
So now they trot out all the same old homophobia. They try to excommunicate us from our own organizations or our communities our own venues our own events and finally our own movement. They try to change the meanings of our words to include themselves and exclude us. They try to call us old hat, claim that we’retherealoppressors and they’re the ones truly suffering from our lack of cooperation.
And they outnumber us. And the rest of straight society either consciously or unconsciously approves. Because, hey, it’s just gay stuff. It’s just queer stuff. It’s just homo stuff. So who cares?
Another reason why kink should never be grouped in with LGB. Just encourages the idea that we are sexual deviants and should be “proud” of it, when all we’ve ever fought for, for centuries, eons, has been normal lives and acceptance from society. To love who we love and have nobody bat an eye. To bring home our girlfriend and have our parents laugh and throw cards at her when she beats them at Uno. And to get married, to have children.
The most boring gay couple with two kids and a white picket fence will always be more meaningful to me than a juvenile contest of who can be the queerest.
I’m gonna give you all another reminder that @/fandersunite on tumblr and Instagram is an ace and aro exclusionist. Thought it would be good to let you all know, now that pride month has rolled around and they’re already been hi jacking ace/aro positivity posts. Stay safe my lovelies.
a history of @/fandersunite being ace/aro-exclusionary (with bonus transphobia):
i know she is incredibly popular in the ts fandom but her comments are harmful. on tumblr, we are more active in lgbt+ issues, but on instagram, people are taking her comments as a representation of community as a whole.
she is severely misinformed on trans and ace issues, which is dangerous for her young audience. i hope she learns but til then i’ll be avoiding interacting with her.
You are lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender. That’s it. Aces aren’t LGBT.
I mean for one your forgetting a bit of that. Like the Q+.
Mod Bethany
The full acronym is LGBT.
I love me some ahistorical bullshit
The “full” acronym at one point was “GL”, after lesbians fought against male homosexuality being the “face” of the movement (i.e., the Alliance for Gay Artists (AGA), founded in 1982, was renamed the Alliance for Gay and Lesbian Artists shortly thereafter; and the Gay Activists Alliance never included “Lesbian” in their title).
The “full” acronym at another point was “LGB”, only after bisexual activists campaigned fiercely to be included, and is often still not even included in acronyms
The “full” acronym at yet another point was “LGBT”, only after trans activists campaigned fiercely to be included
Queer was added to the acronym after it was reclaimed and re-politicized by ACT UP off-shoot Queer Nation in the early 1990s. LGBTQ has been a thing since the 90s.
ONE Archives, which is the largest repository of LGBTQIA+ materials in the world and was founded by some of the principle members of the early (1950s-60s) homophile movement, which led to the gay rights movement post-Stonewall, uses the full acronym LGBTQ on their website and also freely uses the word “Queer” interchangeably.
As of 2014, NOW (National Organization for Women) agreed to switch to use of the full LGBTQIA acronym, and it likely isn’t the only large social rights organization to have done so
Many LGBTQ+ magazines use LGBTQ, including One(which has existed in some form since the 1950s) and The Advocate, use LGBTQ or LGBTQIA as the full acronym and regularly use “queer” as a phrase (and, in fact, some articles have welcomed asexual people and their narratives as part of the queer experience).
The acronym is constantly evolving. It’s not static. To claim otherwise is blatant ignorance. The modern-day LGBTQ+ community is a result of decades of political activism, social inclusion, and community outreach. It’s nota rigid structure that operates by a strict set of rules about who can and cannot join.
The full acronym is LGBT. Cishets don’t belong in the community. Aces aren’t inherently lgbt. We don’t want our oppressors in our community.
“we don’t want our oppressors in our community”
as if trans people don’t already have to deal with their oppressors (cis people) being in their community
as if LGBTQIA+ people of color don’t have to deal with LGBTQIA+ white people in the community
as if LBTQIA+ women don’t have to deal with GBTQIA+ men in the community
as if disabled LGBTQIA+ people don’t have to deal with able-bodied LGBTQIA+ people in the community
the LGBTQIA+ community is huge and consists of people with multiply-overlapping identities and privileges. we all (unless you’re a cis, able-bodied, wealthy, white gay man) have to deal with a member of our oppressing class in the LGBTQIA+ community
Even cis, able bodied, wealthy, white gay men occasionally have oppressors in the restricted lgbt community if straight trans people are included (although this is more rare; the only example of a homophobic trans person I can pull up is Caitlyn Jenner, my point is just that intersectionality means this is possible all along in a number of ways and accepting another dimension of intersectionality to the acronym isn’t anything new)
Reblogging for the historical smackdown.
and this fool is STILL going off in the notes about how “aces aren’t inherently lgbtpn no matter what you type on the internet lmao”
well by that logic, aces ARE inherently LGBTQIA+/MOGAI no matter what you type on the internet lmao :) and there’s really nothing you can do about it except cry about the cishets on your tumblr. like please
still no research or facts, just plugging one’s ears and repeating the same old, tired, INCORRECT notion that aces don’t belong in the community despite tons of evidence and research being presented. i think OP intended to go back and forth forever on this, but it’s pretty clear they’re not shit if all they can say is “well they’re not cuz I say so, SO THERE lalalala” in the face of well thought-out responses.
edit: my comments may be “bullshit” but at least i’m not a bigoted aphobe LOL. this may come as a huge surprise for some of you, but criteria for belonging in the LGBTQIA+/MOGAI community isn’t limited to “opposite” gender identity and sexual orientation??? gasp!! “opposite gender” LMAO okay you just keep on with your bad binary self and we’ll be over here supporting actual inclusion and intersectionality and not being terrific assholes about it.
recently i’ve seen a lot of people being like “i used to identify as asexual, but then i realised i just had a lot of repression/internalised homophobia/body image issues, and once i had sorted through that, i no longer identified as asexual.”
which is, like, fine. or not fine,but it’s understandable.
exceptthey then go on to say, “THEREFORE asexuality is a harmful and #problematic orientation because it allows people to justify their repression and avoid facing up to their Real Problems bluh bluh something bluh.”
and that’s where i start to be like. uhhh. you do know an identity is not inherently flawed just because it no longer fits you, right? for example - i used to identify as bi because of compulsory heterosexuality. i was scared to face the fact that i was not even remotely into men, so i called myself bi because it was easier. does that make bisexuality a flawed identity? if a trans man initially identifies as a butch lesbian due to internalised transphobia, does that make butch lesbians “problematic”? no offence but could you people please, please think critically for once in your lives, i’m begging you
I can’t tell you how many times I have had a stranger e-mail me or comment on one of my videos to tell me that asexuality itself, and the activism I help promote, is inherently problematic because it was what they used as a cover when they weren’t in touch with themselves (or they simply made a mistake).
Somewhat recently I had an “ex asexual” write me an absolutely awful, very long message about how aces are socially repressed and he used to be one of them, and how people like me have personally contributed to harming them becausewe make them think they’re okay when they had so much work to do to find their real selves.
Do you know what the opposite of that looks like?
Asexual people being finally freed to be themselves because they have a word for who they are and an understanding for why it never felt right.
Asexual people finally having resources to leave abusive relationships or speak up for their own desires (or lack thereof) in relationships.
Asexual people who learn they don’t have to buy into the toxic messages society has been sending them since birth about what they need to desire to be okay, to be happy, to be fulfilled, and how horribly stunted and In Need Of Help they are if they “suffer” from “lack of libido” or whatever someone uninformed thinks asexuality is today.
Do you know how many people have pretended to be straight (or thought they were straight) because they either didn’t have the resources/support to admit otherwise or truly did not knowit was an option to be otherwise? There are many ways compulsory heterosexuality actually is toxic and we somehow don’t have our mainstream culture side-eyeing heterosexuals for influencing The Youth to buy into the lie that they are straight.
As the OP says, identities are not in themselves problematic. They don’t start being dangerous because someone who once used that identity later decided it didn’t fit them.
What we actually need to do is create/facilitate places and spaces where people aren’t shamed for exploring identity and won’t feel like they failed or “were tricked” if they either realize an identity was never true for them or they realize it isn’t true anymore (or that something else is truer).
It’s okay to identify as asexual on your way to understanding yourself, and to be wrong. We’re not going to send a mob out to find you and blame you for destroying our legitimacy. Labels are what we use to communicate with each other and tell each other who we are. If we realize the words are doing us a disservice, we change how we speak. It’s okay. But don’t you DARE tell asexual people that their awareness activism is hurting people because we want everyone to know it’s an option (and we want people to know what our experience is like).
It is horribly damaging to spread the lie that asexuality is more likely to be a phase that stunts people than it is to ever be the “final” label a person uses. If you found out it was wrong for you, you need to still support asexual people, and you need to use your time in the community as insight into how society treats them. You still need to make space for THEM to have THEIR journeys, and you do NOT have the right to present our community as harmful to yours because you tripped over us on your way to your true self.
Everyone can keep exploring who they are and trying on identity labels if they’re still unsatisfied. The nametags you leave on the floor are not to blame for distracting you from the ones you want pinned to your jacket. And if you won’t ever consider whether people who came to the same conclusion you did might be wrong, while you assume everyone calling themselves asexual is still looking for a “real” answer … we see who you are. We see that you’re weaponizing identity and centering your own experience in the lives of others. We see that you’re using the status quo to control and shame marginalized people. And we see that you can’t imagine asexuality except as a disorder. If you say things like this and spread these messages, know that you are just as bad as every authority who ever “diagnosed” other non-straight and non-cis identities with disorders, and know that you are making it easier for bigots to come for everyone else.
The only thing you need to be to be LGBT+ is to not be cishet and for asexuality and aromanticism to be validated as real and true identities, you all have to accept that they are not hetero-lite and are inherently queer adjacent
I’m tired of discourse and these are my last words on the matter. If you disagree, maybe you should check your understanding of what a community created for non-cishet people was founded for if not to protect and spread awareness of sexual and romantic identities (and transgender people) that are not heterosexual
Exclusionists also need to recognize that their belief system was built primarily to dispute and belittle asexual and aromantic identities and their placement in the LGBT+ community was a last minute backwash on that discourse. Exclusionism was never about whether or not asexuals and aromantics are considered queer, but whether or not they actually existed. You’re fighting with people who have been arguing the same people for years about whether or not their identities are real and who have been accepted into the community years before you decided they didn’t
Discourse around asexual and aromantics is the exact same as TERFs and truscum who feed off of each other and blatantly ignore their roots in transphobia, homophobia, racism, classism, and sexism to argue a point that was made purely to brainwash more people into following their cause
Asexuals and aromantics are LGBT+ and that is final and finished. This isn’t a debate anymore, it never was. You’re just pawns in a years long debate on our existence that got out of control
Y'know, whenever people want to talk about why aspec people ‘count’ as an oppressed identity, they tend to go for the big stuff like corrective rape and conversion therapy. And like, we should absolutely talk about that stuff. Obviously those things are terrible and important and we need to raise awareness and deal with them.
But I feel like people often gloss over how… quietly traumatising it is to grow up being told that there is only one way to be happy— and that everybody who doesn’t conform to that norm is secretly miserable and just doesn’t know it— and then to gradually realise that, for reasons that you cannot help, that is never going to happen for you.
You’re not going to find a prince/princess and ride off into the sunset. Or if you do, then it’s not going to look exactly the way it does in fairytales. You’re not going to get a ‘normal’ relationship, because you are not ‘normal’, and everybody and everything around you keeps telling you that that’s bad.
You see films where characters are presented as being financially stable, genuinely passionate about their work and surrounded by friends and family, but then spend the rest of the plot realising that the real thing they needed was a (romantic and sexual) partner, to make them ‘complete’.
You absorb the idea that any relationships you have with allo people will ultimately be unfulfilling on their side, and that this will be your fault (even if you discussed things with your partner beforehand and they decided that they were a-okay with having those sorts of boundaries in a relationship) unless you deliberately force yourself into situations that you aren’t comfortable with, so as to make uo for your ‘defects’.
You grow up feeling lowkey gaslighted because all the adults in your life (even in LGBT+ spaces. In fact especially in LGBT+ spaces) are insisting that it’s totally normal to not be attracted to anybody at your age, and then you go to school and everybody keeps pressuring you to name somebody you’re attracted to because they can’t imagine not being attracted to anybody at your age.
And then you get older and realise that one day you’re going to be expected to leave home, and that one day all your friends are going to be expected to put aside other relationships and ‘settle down’ with a primary partner and you don’t know what you’re going to do after that because you straight up don’t have a roadmap for what a 'happy ending’ looks like for someone like you.
(And the LGBT+ community is little help, because so many people in there are more than happy to tell you that you’re not oppressed at all. That you’re like this because you don’t want to have sex, and/or you don’t want to have any relationships, that your orientation is some sort of choice you made— like not eating bananas— rather than an intrinsic part of you that a lot of us have at some point tried to wish away.)
Even if you’re grey or demi, and do experience those feelings, you still have to deal with the fact that you’re not experiencing them the 'normal’ way and that that’s going to effect your relationships and your ability to find one in the first place.
If you’re aiming for lifelong singlehood (which is valid af) or looking for a qpp, then you’re going to have to spend the rest of your life either letting people make wrong assumptions about your situation (at best that your relationship is of a different nature than it actually is, at worst that the life you’ve chosen is really just a consolation prize because you 'failed’ at finding a romantic/sexual partner) or pulling out a powerpoint and several webpages every time you want to explain it.
This what being aspec looks like for most people, and it is constantly minimised as being unimportant and not worth fighting against— even in aspec spaces— because we’ve all on some level absorbed the idea that oppression is only worth fighting against if it’s big, and dramatic, and immediately obvious. That all the little incidents of suffering that we experience on a daily basis are not enough to be worth bothering about.
I mean, who gives a shit if you feel broken, inherently toxic as a partner, and like you’re going to be denied happiness because of your orientation? Shouldn’t we all just shut up and thank our lucky stars we don’t have to deal with all the stuff some of the other letters in the acronym have to put up with (leaving aside the fact that there are many aspec people who identify with more than one letter)?
So you know what? If you’re aspec and you relate to anything I’ve said above (or can think of other things relating your your aspec-ness that I haven’t mentioned) then this is me telling you now that it’s enough. Even if we got rid of all the big stuff (which we’re unlikely to do any time soon because— Shock! Horror!— the big stuff is actually connected to all the small stuff) we would still be unable to consider our fight 'over’ because what you are experiencing is not 'basically okay’ and something we should just be expected to 'put up with’.
No matter what anybody tells you, we have the right to demand more from life than this.
Courteousmingler has made a number of claims recently regarding her recent campaign against catandkitty and missvoltairine, and I want to talk about them, because the way she’s attempting to change tracks here is pretty alarming.
Let’s start with this post, where courteousmingler makes a number of bold claims that are notably inconsistent with how she’s previously presented this whole conflict:
i told missvoltairine that denying the existence of ace oppression so that corrective rape against aces never stops is rape apologism.
she’s since started spreading rumors that i called her friend a rapist.
this objectively never occurred.
this is a slander campaign created by a rape apologist because i called her a rape apologist, when “all she did” was deny ace oppression so that corrective rape could not be combated by society.
First of all, the statement that courteousmingler calling someone a rapist “objectively never occurred (note the shift into a more specific denial - “I never called anyone a rapist” versus “no circulating posts call these people rapists”, which was her previous claim) is questionable. Here is my post about the screencap where courteousmingler can be seen calling catandkitty an “abuser posing as a victim” in direct response to catandkitty clarifying that she is not a rapist and is in fact a rape survivor. This in combination with statements like this one:
reminder that if you say things to your partner that makes them guilty for not wanting to have sex with you, like speaking verbatim about how much you “need” sex and saying shit like “withholding sex can be a form of abuse”, you are abusing them.
Here, she directly references things that catandkitty and missvoltairine said, recontextualizes those statements so that it seems like they weren’t about their abuse specifically but that those are things they have told partners of theirs, and says, “you are abusing [your partner]”. It’s pretty clear that the “you” here refers to catandkitty and missvoltairine. Then in response to an ask by bisexualrevolution she says this:
you know what makes someone a rapist? if they call their powerful desires a “need”, as if they can’t survive without it, and then use that to guilt their partner into having sex with them. emotionally manipulating a person into sex is rape. “sex is a human need!” is a phrase i’ve only ever used to justify rape.
This statement is a direct reference to catandkitty saying that “sex/physical intimacy is a human need”. You’ll note that courteousmingler extrapolates from the statement “sex … is a human need” that emotional manipulation MUST be occurring in a relationship, on the part of the person who said those words.
These are only things courteousmingler has said herself directly - I touched in a previous post on how multiple people who courteousmingler vocally supported, reblogged from, and lent validity to - people who agreed with courteousmingler in her subsequent assessments of the situation - not only undermined catandkitty and missvoltairine’s personal accounts of their abuse, but sometimes outright said that they were lying in order to cover up the fact that they were the real abusers. I don’t mean to bring this up to imply that courteousmingler is responsible for the statements of people who are only connected to her through a series of likes and reblogs, but to illustrate that the above statements that she made took place in a context where other people were also calling catandkitty and missvoltairine abusers and rapists.
The assertion that missvoltairine said that rape never happens to asexuals or that it shouldn’t be addressed when someone who is asexual is raped seems to come up more in courteousmingler’s recent posts than it has in previous posts, which mostly focused on the assertion that catandkitty and missvoltairine said that withholding sex on it’s own was abusive and that was what made them rape apologists. Since I and others have pointed out that neither of those women ever said that, courteousmingler has quietly backed off this claim (at least for now) and fallen back on the narrative that missvoltairine specifically has “dedicated” herself to “making sure the cause of systemic rape is never stopped”. These statements pretty overtly position missvoltairine, a rape and abuse survivor, as directly responsible for the rapes of other people, if not a rapist herself. I’m not saying the distinction is meaningless, but it seems pretty academic at this point, just as the distinction between “calling someone a rapist” and “saying that the things someone has said about their abuse would only be said by a rapist, and that they would make someone a rapist in a specific context, and saying that they are only posing as a rape victim but are actually an abuser, in the larger context of other people calling them a rapist more directly” seems academic.
It’s also a pretty big digression from what the actual initial argument was about. I couldn’t find any evidence in the initial posts that sparked this whole debacle of missvoltairine or catandkitty saying anything about rape being used as a tool of punishment or “corrective therapy” against asexual people. Catandkitty did say that asexual people would need to have mature conversations about sex at some point, but “you will need to talk about sex” and “you deserve to be raped” are pretty radically different statements and sentiments. It’s true that other people have responded to this subject, but those discussions seem relatively unconnected to what was addressed in the argument between missvoltairine and catandkitty and courteousmingler et al. I find it troubling that courteousmingler seems to be insisting on holding some people accountable for things other people said - it’s disorienting for the people trying to hold a consistent conversation, and it feels pretty disingenuous. Creating confusion about who said what seems to serve a pretty clear purpose, especially when courteousmingler’s initial complaint against catandkitty and missvoltairine was proven to be a fabrication.
If there’s one thing that I feel is really dangerous in this discussion, it’s the way the representations of specific survivors involved have shifted and been twisted almost beyond recognition. Shifting the narrative from “these people are rape apologists because they said it’s abusive to not want to have sex” to “these people are rape apologists because they want asexual people to be raped” when the first statement is disproven is pretty blatant, especially because the second statement is harder to address concretely given that neither of the people being accused have said much on the subject of asexual people being raped - they both pretty much stuck to personal accounts of their own abuse throughout this whole thing. Courteousmingler has talked a lot about how it’s not necessarily an act of violence to accuse a rape survivor of being a rape apologist, and I agree with the basic premise of that - rape survivors CAN and sometimes do engage in rape apologism - but I disagree that this means calling any rape survivor who disagrees with you about whether it’s possible for some asexuals to be considered straight and whether straight, cisgender asexuals belong in spaces reserved for LGBT people exclusively a rape apologist is okay. I think this is deliberately inflammatory and pretty much guaranteed to spark an emotional response, especially when directed at survivors, which makes it easier for the discussion to go off the rails completely. If I was a more cynical person I might think that this is deliberate and serves an agenda of vilifying rape and CSA survivors very well.
I’ve already addressed the fact that neither catandkitty or missvoltairine ever said that saying no to sex was inherently abusive on its own, and that the links courteousmingler provides as “evidence” that they did actually tell an entirely different story if you care to read them. This isn’t just a matter of interpretation. In the above linked post, courteousmingler links to a post where catandkitty corrects someone who states that she said saying no to sex is abusive on its own. The person asserting that catandkitty said this - without citations of his own - is acepilotlombardi. It’s strange that courteousmingler would use acepilotlombardi’s (debunked) accusation as evidence of catandkitty saying these things in her own words, given that acepilotlombardi had this to say about missvoltairine’s account of her own abuse:
Saying you can withhold sex from a person is like saying you can withhold pets from a dog. Look, if animal rights groups suddenly started saying that if you are ever not petting your dog, you’re abusing them, that would be absurd. This is basically the same situation.
Seems to contradict courteousmingler’s assertions that “no one” on the “inclusionist” side of this debacle has tried to shut down victims speaking about their own experiences, but that’s neither here nor there.
But let’s talk about the oft-repeated idea that catandkitty and missvoltairine entered into a simple discussion about rape and started talking about their abuse in ways that would imply that they thought rape was fine if the targets were asexual. Because that’s such a vast misrepresentation of what really happened as to basically be a lie.
The conversation in question was not, in fact, a single thread of conversation. It was a series of discussions that spanned several different threads and included multiple people on either “side” of “the discourse”. I spent a long time trying to figure out the chronology of the discussion, but tumblr’s format makes it nearly impossible, which already casts doubts on courteousmingler’s claim that catandkitty and missvoltairine’s accounts of their abuse came into play in the “chronological middle” of the discussion.
To kick things off, let’s have a look at this thread. It begins with lgbtkhaleesi saying:
it’s also shitty to deny your partner sex and shame them for even trying to communicate their feelings to you about it
This is obviously a complete statement - it’s shitty to do both of these things in tandem, because it creates a dynamic where one person can’t talk about something that is bothering them in the relationship. Not having sex with your partner is one thing; not having sex with your partner and making them feel ashamed and shutting down any attempts at having an honest discussion about the fact that you’re not having sex is another. The first is not abusive, the second is. However, throughout the resulting thread, people take the first part of this statement and repeat it over and over again without the added context of the second part of the statement. Then there’s this:
Why would you ever tell your sex repulsed partner that “it sucks you can’t have sex and that it hurts your self esteem”? Like what do you think would happen? It’s either
1. They still don’t have sex with you but now they feel guilty and insecure over something they can’t help.
or
2. They are guilted into having sex with you, which is rape by coercion.
This is a big part of what many people, including catandkitty and missvoltairine, took issue with - the idea that if a partner is shutting down discussions of sex in a way that makes you feel bad about yourself, simply attempting to address that verbally makes you a rapist because you’re “guilting” someone into having sex with you.
This theme was repeated not just in that thread, but elsewhere as well:
People were so hostile to the idea of a couple simply talking about having sexual needs that were incompatible that at some point some presented nonmonogamy as a natural solution to feeling sexually unsatisfied in your relationship:
Nonmonogamy is a relationship style that requires a LOT of communication and honesty - if you’re entering into a nonmonogamous relationship because you feel like you CAN’T communicate about sex with your partner, there’s something wrong; this isn’t a healthy basis for a nonmonogamous relationship, and saying that it “is a consensual option that doesn’t involve manipulating people” is pretty loaded.
I think it’s clear by now that at least parts of this discussion had taken a turn away from “it’s not cool to coerce your partner into sex” and into characterizing any kind of attempt at communication, specifically from a non-asexual person towards an asexual person, as rape or advocating rape. It was this trend that catandkitty and missvoltairine objected to. Catandkitty in particular, who is the one who’s been most villified for her participation in this discussion, never actually engaged in any of these discussion threads. Her commentary was confined solely to original posts on her own blog, where she reflects on what is being said in posts like this one:
sex and/or physical intimacy IS human need and you WILL need to be able to have a healthy conversation about it at some point in your adult life. telling people that expressing that need is inherently abusive is intensely harmful and i wish ace tumblr would stop it
This post has been spun as evidence that catandkitty is a rape apologist so many times that I couldn’t possibly link to them all, but you can see some of it in the notes on the post. But the fact is, catandkitty did not say this in response to any one specific person; it’s not a reblog, it’s an original post on her personal blog, a place where she has in the past posted other personal reflections on trends in tumblr discourse, that is an individual reaction to multiple people saying things like the statements I discussed above. It is NOT a response to a statement as simple as “don’t rape asexual people”, and frankly, would make no sense as such.
First of all, you called them your abusive ex. Forgive me if the rest of us victims out here who went through shit (me included) aren’t too keen to assume you’re not the abuser when you can still swallow to call them your ex first instead of your rapist. That was red flag number 1.
Number 2, withholding sex is still a lovely way of saying that they didn’t consent. THEY AREN’T WITHHOLDING BC YOU DO NOT OWN OR HAVE A RIGHT TO THEIR BODY. Them having sex with you is not a right you have. Being in a relationship does not give you that right (see marital rape). The only thing that gives you that right is their informed, ENTHUSIASTIC consent. If they weren’t feeling it, tell me, you’d rather rape them than them continue to “Withhold sex”?
How the fuck do you “withhold consensual sex” wtf?? If you don’t want to do it, it’s not consensual jfc. If you change your mind halfway through or right before or whenever and decide you don’t want to do the do anymore, /that means it’s no longer consensual!/
anyone curious as to why catandkitty is so deeply obsessed with believing sex is a human need, after being told by multiple survivors that the rhetoric is used to get rapists off the hook?
like. why is clinging to rhetoric that silences rape victims something so deeply, deeply important to her? because she considers not having sex with her to be one of her abusers’ offences?
By now it should be clear that presenting this conflict as a simple case of innocent asexuals saying “please don’t rape us” and big mean rape apologists coming out of the woodwork to harass them about it is completely disingenuous and false. I really hope people take the time to read this post - I know it’s a lot, and there’s a lot of further evidence that I refrained from posting because I didn’t want to make this longer. But this is important, because a big part of courteousmingler and her friends - including wetwareproblem and vaspider, etc - smear campaign against these survivors relies on their radically dishonest reinterpretation of what actually happened.
Thanks to catandkitty for this screencap. Courteousmingler has repeatedly denied that she called any rape victims abusive or rapists themselves - and asked for sources of her doing that. This screencap clearly shows her calling an abuse survivor an “abuser posing as a victim”, and openly mocking the idea that she could even be a victim at all. Courteousmingler has since backtracked on this, claiming that she did not mean that catandkitty’s claims of being an abuse victim were false but that she was talking specifically about her position on asexuality in general - that her “rhetoric” is abusive and “posing as a victim” meant she was acting like she was being victimized by asexuals. However, this screenshot clearly shows that catandkitty was talking about being accused of lying about her abuse, and courteousmingler came in and defended those accusations, mocking the idea that catandkitty was a victim and calling her an abuser. Instead of admitting that she was wrong here, courteousmingler has taken the approach of insisting that she has been misrepresented and that it was never her intent to deny or downplay another survivor’s trauma at all, in fact, that she point-blank has never done such a thing ever, and anyone who claims this is a liar.
Recently, @courteousmingler accused another survivor, catandkitty, of deleting posts that proved that she was a rape apologist. The posts catandkitty allegedly deleted are mentioned in this post by courteousmingler. It’s worth noting that originally, the post by courteousmingler contained a number of “links” that were not links at all - she simply wrote “(x)” after statements and said that the x was a link, when in reality it was not. I want to be very clear here - I am not saying that it was a dead link, leading to a “page not found” error; I am saying that there was no link at all, the x was a plain text character with no link attached. This was visibly obvious, as the formatting of courteousmingler’s blog causes text with links attached to show up as bold white text; the text of the (x) was not bold or white, because it was not a link. She would do this, and then repeatedly make references to how she had “proven” through linked sources that catandkitty and missvoltairine were lying. I wish I had taken a screencap of the original version of the post - she’s since edited it to remove a number of links, claiming that those links were deleted, but I want to talk for a minute about the links that remain that she claims are “proof” and what they actually say.
I think that courteousmingler does this a lot - she writes a LOT of text, and then inserts links, and counts on the idea that most people will have their hands full just making it through what she’s written, and therefor won’t actually check out the links she’s included. She also has blocked the people she’s linked to in this case, which makes it impossible for them to directly clarify what they actually said and meant on the post where they are being openly misinterpreted. It’s worth noting that this is actually a tactic very commonly used among the alt-right; it’s known as “linkbombing” and it’s a propaganda technique.
For a direct example of this, here’s a point where courteousmingler writes:
anyway, here’s catandkitty saying that denying someone sex is an abuse tactic by itself. (x)
now, in that post, notice she didn’t say “saying no to sex isn’t abusive by itself, but making your partner feel unworthy of sex and ashamed of wanting sex is abusive.”
she believes the quote above is true! she definitely believes shaming your partner and making them feel unworthy of sex is abuse.
but in the post i linked, she clearly states that “withholding” sex is an abuse tactic all by itself- without rape or manipulation or shame being necessary to make it abusive.
That would be pretty damning - IF the post linked actually said anything like that. In actual reality, the post in question reveals catandkitty directly taking issue with someone claiming that she said that “withholding sex in any situation is abuse”, actively disagreeing with them and clarifying that she did not say that at all. Here’s what catandkitty actually says in that post, in direct response to someone accusing her of saying that withholding sex is abusive on its own:
this makes it pretty clear that she was specifically talking about withholding sex in the context of a pattern of abusive behavior, specifically her own abuser’s.
Since a number of people have pointed out that a lot of the links courteousmingler used as “evidence” of rape apologism like this did not say what she claimed they said, she has gone back into the post and reformatted it, removing links and then claiming that she removed them because catandkitty deleted the posts in order to “bury evidence”.
Except catandkitty hasn’t deleted anything! For example, here is a post that courteousmingler claims that she deleted - it’s still there and hasn’t even been edited. What IS revealed in that not-deleted link is @asexualnataliaromanova stating in very clear terms that she believes, based on the language catandkitty used, that catandkitty’s rapist was in fact a victim being raped by her - she refers to catandkitty saying that her rapist “controlled when and how” they had sex as “victim blaming someone who couldn’t give enthusiastic consent”. This directly contradicts courteousmingler’s claim that no one called catandkitty a rapist, which is probably why she’s claiming the post was deleted.
Claiming that catandkitty deleted this post and others creates confusion about who said what and muddies the waters so that it’s harder to call courteousmingler out for lying directly. But she’s still lying.
courteousmingler goes on in her response to this ask to ignore the fact that anyone who has followed this debacle would know exactly what language clara-the-slytherin-graduate is referring to, in order to accuse clara-the-slytherin-graduate of having a problem with her “calling out rape apologism”, which is a) arguably not even what she’s doing, and b) definitely not what was being addressed in the ask. This is what we in the industry call a “lie”: claiming that someone is saying one thing, when they are explicitly saying something else.
The idea that your desire to communicate your hatred of another person’s rapist should not come at the expense of the person that rapist directly abused is a simple matter of ethics, and apparently it’s completely beyond courteousmingler’s comprehension. We’ll see more evidence of how she feels like retraumatizing other survivors is right, fair, and necessary in future posts - I’ll be starting with her most recent fuckery and working my way back on this blog.
Making it increasingly hard for trans and non-straight aspec people to get access to resources and aid for their aspec-specific issues in safe spaces does nothelp them.
By fighting to exclude ace/aro people y’all have only made it more difficult for us “lgbt aces/aros” to actually have easy access to aspec resources in LGBTQ+ safe spaces. Most safe spaces would only provide aspec resources if aspec people were included, and the only safe spaces I’ve gone to that actually have aspec information or resources have been inclusionist spaces. No exclusionist spaces I’ve seen have actually provided any, and “why don’t you make them outside of lgbtq+ spaces” doesn’t work because I need my aspec safe spaces to be lgbtq+ safe, because I’m not straight or cis and my bi-ness and transness is incredibly intertwined with my aspec identity.
If y’all will neither: 1, believe “lgbt aces/aros” when we say some of us might actually, desperately need aspec-specific resources and aid, and 2, help us receive that aid and fight for its inclusion in LGBTQ+ spaces, then you’re not an ally to “lgbt aces/aros” and you never have been.
if aces/aros aren’t lgbt, resources for us don’t belong in lgbt spaces though?
LGBTQ+ spaces are supposed to provide resources and safety for intersectional identities too, because otherwise their safe spaces wouldn’t be equipped to help all the LGBTQ+ people they need to help.That’s why there are (or should be) resources for religous LGBTQ+ people, trans gay/mspec people, and queer people of color. Because they need different resources in their LGBTQ+ safe spaces than people without intersectional identities. That’s why, even if ace/aros weren’t LGBTQ+, we still need things like the asexual suicide hotline at the Trevor Project, because I’m asexual and I might need it, and I’m also not cis or straight.
I’m aspec. I’m bi and trans. Those identities cannot be seperated. I need aspec resources in my LGBTQ+ safe spaces. Even if it’s only for the non-cishet aspec people, we should have aspec resources in LGBTQ+ spaces!!! Not all ace/aros are cis and straight!! There are trans ace/aros!! There are gay/mspec ace/aros!!! We ain’t all straight and cis! And going to aspec spaces organized entirely by cis straight people won’t help, because I need my aspec safe spaces to be LGBTQ+ safe!
Making it increasingly hard for trans and non-straight aspec people to get access to resources and aid for their aspec-specific issues in safe spaces does nothelp them.
By fighting to exclude ace/aro people y’all have only made it more difficult for us “lgbt aces/aros” to actually have easy access to aspec resources in LGBTQ+ safe spaces. Most safe spaces would only provide aspec resources if aspec people were included, and the only safe spaces I’ve gone to that actually have aspec information or resources have been inclusionist spaces. No exclusionist spaces I’ve seen have actually provided any, and “why don’t you make them outside of lgbtq+ spaces” doesn’t work because I need my aspec safe spaces to be lgbtq+ safe, because I’m not straight or cis and my bi-ness and transness is incredibly intertwined with my aspec identity.
If y’all will neither: 1, believe “lgbt aces/aros” when we say some of us might actually, desperately need aspec-specific resources and aid, and 2, help us receive that aid and fight for its inclusion in LGBTQ+ spaces, then you’re not an ally to “lgbt aces/aros” and you never have been.
This has never been the case.
If you are LGBT, you will be allowed into LGBT safe spaces. Regardless if you are aro/ace.
You will not be allowed into LGBT spaces if you are
Cis Asexual Aromantic
Cis Asexual hetromantic
Cis Aromantic Heterosexual
Aka Fucking Straight.
It isnt rocket science. If you aren’t being allowed into LGBT spaces it’s probably because you are trying to make people prioritize YOU over everyone else because you are ace/aro.
Ex: making rules about not talking sex, relationships, etc.
And forcing everyone to abide by those rules or seeing them kicked from a SUPPORT group.
LGBT people who are not aro/ace like we are, do not have to create online safe spaces for us because we can make our own support groups specifically for us.
Just because you are LGBT and Aro/ace, does not mean people will exclude you. People dont fucking care. So long as you aren’t straight or a crybaby about being Aro/ace, you can always find support groups.
The Laziness of the Aro/Ace community astounds me.
“Making my own safe space doesn’t work”.
“They’re supposed to make safe spaces for us”.
Bullshit. You havent even tried.
I’m bisexual, trans and aromantic. I’ve met more biphobic and transphobic aces/aros in support groups than I have “aphobes”.
This post is not about me being allowed into LGBTQ+ spaces as a bi/trans person, this is about me having access to ace/aro specific resources in safe spaces. I can get into LGBTQ+ spaces just fine!! This isn’t about me being lazy or getting kicked out of safe spaces for being a jerk! It’s about how the resources in many LGBTQ+ spaces are not suited for the needs an aspec person might have! These resources come in the form of:
education/information about ace/aro identities and issues
advice, therapy, and other aid that can be specifically applied to my needs as an aspec person, not just as a trans or bi person. Being aspec changes what kind of advice and therapy I might need. I might need a different kind of sex/dating education, a different kind of therapy that’s insightful of the fact that I’m aspec and the issues I might face because of that. Dealing with aphobia and ace-specific patholoziation affects all of that. Similar to how I need trans-specific resources, I need aspec-specific resources.
This is not a situation of me being too lazy to make my own safe space!! I’m perfectly willing to provide some education and information about being aspec, I’m perfectly willing to make “online safe spaces” but “online safe spaces” are not what I’m talking about! I’m talking about physical safe spaces and LGBTQ+ organizations! I’m a minor living in a low income household in the south, I do not have the resources to make my own physical safe space anyway!
LGBTQ+ safe spaces are supposed to provide safety for intersectional identities! Which means they should have the information and resources for “lgbt aces/aros” to be able to aid us when we need it! Yet inclusionist spaces are the only ones who’ve I’ve seen do that before! Groups like the Trevor Project have provided ace resources that I can use if they need them, and yet exclusionists complain about those even though they help more than just “cishet” ace people, they help “lgbt aces” too!
And as I said, aspec resources outside of lgbtq+ safe spaces don’t help me the way resources in lgbtq+ safe spaces do, because I’m not straight or cis! I need resources that will also be attuned to my needs as an lgbtq+ person! Resources that aren’t created entirely by cis straight people! This is not about being lazy!! This is about the need for aspec resources in LGBTQ+ safe spaces! Because intersectionality exists!
And you being aromantic doesn’t mean that you have the same needs or experiences as mine. Not all aspec people need aspec resources, but they’re vital for those that do. I’m glad you haven’t experienced aphobia, but I have.
Also. Acearo people are not straight and you cannot speak for their needs or experiences.
Making it increasingly hard for trans and “non-straight” aspec people to get access to resources and aid for their aspec-specific issues in safe spaces does nothelp them.
By fighting to exclude ace/aro people y’all have only made it more difficult for us “lgbt aces/aros” to actually have easy access to aspec resources in LGBTQ+ safe spaces. Most safe spaces would only provide aspec resources if aspec people were included, and the only safe spaces I’ve gone to that actually have aspec information or resources have been inclusionist spaces. No exclusionist spaces I’ve seen have actually provided any, and “why don’t you make them outside of lgbtq+ spaces” doesn’t work because I need my aspec safe spaces to be lgbtq+ safe, because I’m not straight or cis and my bi-ness and transness is incredibly intertwined with my aspec identity.
If y’all will neither: 1, believe “lgbt aces/aros” when we say some of us might actually, desperately need aspec-specific resources and aid, and 2, help us receive that aid and fight for its inclusion in LGBTQ+ spaces, then you’re not an ally to “lgbt aces/aros” and you never have been.
People who aren’t ace don’t get to decide what ace issues are, or which ones are most important.
And don’t y’all comment with any “but the cishet aces!” crap because ace issues affect more than just cis straight aces, and if you can’t see past your exclusionary rhetoric to know that, then leave.
not that this is a new thing but i geniunely hate that inclusionists argument for ace people being lgbt almost always includes words like “weird” or “abnormal” like. the point of tbe lgbt community is N O T that we’re weird or abnormal, its so we can do something against oppression and even if it wasnt and it was only for people who have something in common (being lgbt) cis het/aro aces dont have that in common with us !! the community was never about us being “weird” “abnormal” and stuff, saying that (especially when the aces that ARENT lgb or t say it) jus sounds homo/transphobic. cishet people calling us weird and abnormal isnt new.
ive seen people be like “but aces arent cishet and thats what being lgbt is about!” and forget to note that SOME are, and some are gay and bi. aro aces arent the only aces. even if you dont want it, the statement “aces are lgbt” lets cishet people into the community. if aces cant be cishet they also cant be gay or bi.
What are you talking about? I’m an inclusionist and I haven’t seen this. Are you talking about how people say that aces and aros are affected by heteronormativity? Us saying that aces and aros aren’t straight isn’t saying that non-straight people are weird or abnormal.
I think aces and aros can be cis and het, but they’re not the same as fully cis straight people. Cis straight people do not have a marginalized orientation, whereas aces and aros do. That’s how we have something in common with other lgbtq+ groups.
ive seen so many people say “lgbt is about being weird and aces arent cishet so we are included ” maybe you havent personally done it but ive seen it a lot. cishet aces are ,, still cishet in basically the same way that non ace cishets are cishet. theyre never gonna like the same gender, theyre not gonna be trans ever. theyre gonna live the normal cishet life, jus without sex.
Alright, can you give me examples? While I haven’t said this myself, I also haven’t seen this in the inclusionist community that I interact with.
If you would listen to cis het aces and aros, you would hear how their experiences differ from cis straight people. Cis straight people treat anyone who doesn’t solely identify as like them as different. Saying you’re ace or aro, despite any other factors, changes the way they perceive and treat us.
Also, asexuality doesn’t mean celibate or sex-repulsed. The definition is about experiencing no attraction.
i assumed you meant the ones that dont have sex, considering the ones that do have absolutely no fucking difference from cishets outside of their personal enjoyment.
i’ll look for the examples, they kinda got drowned on my feed thingy so its hard 2 find sbsbs. also? you dont need to? tell cishet people youre a cishet ace like ur sex life is personal theyre not gonna perceive you differently ESPECIALLY if youre one of the aces that do participate in sexual stuff.
Not having sex isn’t the only thing that differs asexual cis straight people from allo cis straight people. Being asexual or aromantic in itself differs them from allo cis straight people. Through asexuality and aromanticism, you’re still impacted by ace and aro issues, including patholization, corrective therapy, sexual assault & harassment, etc. as well as dealing with the stereotypes and prejudice people have of ace & aro people, all of which increase once you include another intersectional identity (aces/aros of color are impacted by aphobia differently than white aspecs, disabled aces/aros are impacted differently than abled aspecs, etc).
These things don’t just go away if you’re cis and straight. People aren’t suddenly okay with the idea that not experiencing a common type of attraction is normal and real. People don’t suddenly stop referring ace people to therapists or doctors when they come out, or comparing us to inanimate objects and dehumanizing us. The bigotry and prejudice doesn’t go away. And neither does the erasure or the experience of having your orientation differ from the majority of society.
My ace identity affects me in some of the same/similar ways my bi and trans identities affect me, and that wouldn’t just go away if I were cis and straight.
ace exclusionists — don’t say it’s “only about the cishets” when i, an aro lesbian, have been called cishet + cishet invader, + have been accused of hurting lgbt people for being aro…despite the fact that im also a lesbian. the blanket targeting of all aros + aces, regardless of other parts of their identites, shows its not really targeting “just the cishets”, you’re targeting all of us.
