I have never watched a single minute of the Loki series HOWEVER I have concluded that Owen Wilson and Loki would go to each other for practice, so like Loki would have have a date and he’d ask to have a “practice round of make out seshes” with Mobius but gets a little too into it
Look, the negative fan response to Sylki is valid. It’s honestly fine if you’re pro-Sylki (clearly, a lot of people are), but I’m frustrated with how the anti-Sylki argument is so often dismissed as a petty ship war. As in, Lokius shippers didn’t get what they wanted, so now they’re anti-Sylki out of spite. That’s just not what’s happening here.
To begin with, my not shipping Sylvie x Loki (Sylki) is separate from my shipping Loki x Mobius (Lokius). Though there is undeniable (and rather significant) overlap between anti-Sylki shippers and pro-Lokius shippers, being in one group does not automatically put you in both. It’s also insulting to assume that the anti-Sylki fans are confounding the two distinct relationships. Believe or not, we are capable of compartmentalizing.
Let’s pretend - as painful as it is, I know - that Mobius was never a part of the story (gods, I hate this already). From their first moments together in episodes 2 and 3, Tom Hiddleston and Sophia Di Martino’s chemistry on screen screamed chaotic siblings - constantly at each other’s throats, bickering about ideology and exchanging petty insults, but ultimately and undeniably similar. As an audience member, that is how I read their interactions, and my reading/interpretation is just as valid as anybody else’s.
I will maintain that first and foremost, I just didn’t buy into Loki and Sylvie’s romance as a member of the audience. (For the record, I had no trouble believing in Cersei x Jaime or in Dany x Jon.)
I have no problem with Loki, the God of Mischief, getting romantically involved with themselves. In fact, the notion is actually quite funny and fitting. But for how Tom Hiddleston played Loki in this series and how his character interacted with the character of Sylvie, I just didn’t buy into the implications of self-attraction and narcissism. My opinion, I know. But I don’t think I’m alone in how I feel given the onscreen chemistry.
Moving right along - as a metaphor for self-love, I don’t see why Loki and Sylvie’s relationship needed to be romantic. In fact, I’d argue that a romantic interpretation of their relationship actually detracts from the self-love metaphor. Hear me out.
(Note: I will be using cis pronouns in this post as this is how the show ultimately positioned the characters; I am definitely of the position that Loki deserved better genderfluid representation and I’m hoping to see it in future seasons/movies.)
When we talk about self-love and self-care in the context of mental health and personal growth, we don’t mean anything sexual or romantic. It’s about reaching a state of self-acceptance and self-assured fulfillment.
Loki “falling for” Sylvie implies motivations (i.e., sexual) beyond empathetic altruism. Loki’s relationship with Sylvie is a great way for the character to see himself - the good, the bad, and the ugly - from an exterior perspective. Sylvie, with how damaged and hateful and hell-bent on revenge she is, reminds Loki of a not-so-long-ago version of himself. Sylvie is lost and alone, and Loki knows what that’s like: “I’ve been where you are. I’ve felt what you feel.” Loki is in the position to offer Sylvie guidance and mentorship without the added layer of a romantic relationship.
I liken it to a hypothetical scenario in which my current 26-year-old self encounters my 21-year-old self. This younger version of myself was in a dark place and desperately needed guidance and hope. My older self would see this younger self as a little sister to take under her wing - to say “it’s going to be okay. we’ve found our way out of this darkness before and we’ll do it again, this time together.”
At the end of the day, it’s just a show (Tom Hiddleston’s Loki is absolutely one of my favorite characters of all time, so yes it pains me to admit that it remains fiction) and the writers/showrunners made their decisions. My opinion is simply that the show would have benefited from a found-sibling, big brother/little sister relationship that felt more organic and didn’t carry the messy implications of a romantic entanglement.
If you read this far, thanks for listening to me thing aloud. Regardless of how you felt about the direction of the show, hope we can bond as forever Loki stans. ✌️️
obsessed with the fact that loki in the series is literally avengers loki who just finished up doing a bunch of murder and evil then mobius snags him and he just fucking drops his edgy persona within like 48 hours. attacked the wholeass planet a couple days ago and now he’s like can you take me to dennys :)
loki before and after the dick made him go stupid
all this emo phase dramatics and in the end the only thing loki needed was a sugar daddy:
exhibit a: loki became good in ragnarok after being “in the company” of the grandmaster.
exhibit b; loki became good in his own show after a dilf called him smart
you know i’m right
silver-haired dilf with an air of authority
Tell us Loki has a ✨type✨ without telling us Loki has a type.
Let me just real quickly sum up why the self-love metaphor really DOES NOT work for Sylvie x Loki (Sylvie):
Self-love is about accepting and appreciating yourself AS YOU ARE. It’s about looking in the mirror, at this current version of yourself and embracing that.
Sylvie and Loki are completely different versions/variants - albeit of the same individual - with completely different backstories. They are also at very different points in their character development/journey. Loki even says so in episode 6: “I’ve been where you are. I’ve felt what you feel.”
Loki falling for Sylvie as a metaphor for self-love doesn’t hold up; it’d be like Ragnarok Loki (who finally found who he is and what he cares for) falling for Avengers Loki (who is lost and so filled with anger and hatred).
And for those who argue that Sylkie is appropriate given Loki’s narcissistic nature, I can understand that. But for Loki’s character to go through all that development in the first two episodes just to regress into “narcissism” is, well, disappointing.
Also, though imo a lesser point, self-love isn’t a two-person deal. In the real world, we can’t go about cloning ourselves to create an exterior self. True self-love and self-acceptance is being able to sit with yourself alone in a space and feel fulfillment and joy and pride in all that you are (if that makes sense?).
Just my take that I wanted to articulate in writing, but would love love love to hear what y’all think. ❤️
I don’t always ship, but when I do the ship tends to be a chaotic, dark-haired, ethereally pretty twink with special powers plus a lawful-good, fair-haired “soldier” boy who’s in for a ride ✨️
I guess they still don’t have free will. Isn’t it interesting how another Marvel villain is at it with “for peace we have to sacrifice free will”. Yeah, well, in a multiverse of infinite alternate versions of yourself, of course, some of them will be evil. But not all of them. I’m starting to get what What If…? was about. For every evil alternate self out there, there are many more good alternate selves (even if they’re not of the same person) and there will always be someone to stop the evil. You have to have hope and faith in that and cling to that hope and faith so that you don’t go around destroying all other branches of existence just because you’re scared of yourself. Who guarantees that this you won’t turn evil? Consolidating control of all of existence in one’s hands is not the greatest idea.
I get it why Loki and Sylvie are the ones who get to “fight” (I still hope the resolution won’t be a fight) this guy. Because they believe that they deserve to be alone since they are always surrounded by pain. Loki brought on a lot of pain because he was scared of his weakness and helplessness. And Sylvie grew up in apocalypses because that was the only place where she was safe. She was surrounded by pain because that was the only way to avoid her vulnerability. And this guy is also alone at the end of time because his multiple selves nearly destroyed the multiverse. But Loki and Sylvie are his narrative foils because they believe in people’s right to free will.
Wow, okay. I did not see this coming. But this makes everything a lot better. Running the show is what Loki wanted and killing the guy that caused everything is what Sylvie wanted. That’s exactly why they didn’t like each other at first. And now they have to make one choice. Although, their circumstances were different. Sylvie was taken from the timeline where she was supposed to grow up and be. Loki was taken from the timeline where he wasn’t supposed to be. They could always make both choices. Although, I don’t think Sylvie will be okay with anyone being in charge (nor should she) and Loki said he doesn’t want control and power anymore. Well, just the power to control his own life.
Was kinda expecting the Loki and Sylvie fight. I’m thinking about their metaphors about love again. A dagger that’s not there - Loki this time chose to throw his blade aside because he cares about Sylvie, and about himself. They said it in the previous episode - a dagger pointed at Thanos gets your neck snapped. But not just at Thanos. Killing your way out isn’t the way. But for Sylvie love is hate. She can’t let go of her revenge and she can’t stop hating the life she’s been forced to live. Even the one good moment couldn’t change that. I could get behind her actions if she did it all for a different reason.
I figured we were getting season two but it was good to have that confirmed by the credits scene.
Well, this was better than what I feared we might get but I really don’t know how to feel about it. I’m sad that Mobius doesn’t remember Loki. Hopefully, he might - in some other timeline. Maybe Sylvie accidentally sent Loki into a different timeline.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand there’s the CGI nonsense. Okay, if this is an afterlife, I hope they can get out of there and that we don’t have to look at Alioth too much. Enough with the CGI bullshit! Give me more thematic stuff.
Ah, so that’s where the “Sacred Timeline” lie comes in. They know that chaos created the universe but it also appears that it is destroying it so the Time Keepers swoop in and save it by creating one single timeline that will not end in the void. Except, they are a lie so they’re probably created by the thing that devours everything aka Alioth or whatever and if the final battle is with that CGI almost formless cloud, so help me. I will personally kick the writers into hell.
Teen Loki looks like he’s a Thor stan. Just saying. Also, love alligator Loki.
Oh, well… scratch that. So these Lokis also believe they are destined to be alone even if they have found each other… probably because they only found each other in the void. BUT there’s a chance this will end in a “self love destroys the monster” way which I’d prefer a million times over the CGI battle.
I thought Sylvie might “prune” herself to get to Loki. Which I think makes it clear what her one good memory is.
OH, THAT IS MOBIUS IN THE CAR! I AM SURE OF IT!
There’s a Sphinx in the Void? And the Great Pyramids of Giza? Wonder what branch reality happened there.
The multiple Loki’s double-double-double-crossing is amazing.
I LOVE elder Loki.
Also love how Loki and Sylvie got the exact same idea about how to get out of “the Void”.
O-kay. So not the same plan then. I think Sylvie’s plan might make a little more sense. I mean, if Alioth can sort of form the snout of a dog, then it probably has some kind of consciousness.
I like how they just now implied that only meeting Sylvie wouldn’t have been enough for Loki to change. Meeting Mobius also played a part in that. And now this group of Loki variants have all met Mobius and each other so that’s hope for all of them.
This Loki and Sylvie scene is really cute but I have a feeling that if they destroy the TVA, they will be separated back in their own timelines. Marvel are just assholes like that.
And there’s the love is a dagger metaphor again.
“Thanks for the spark” sounds like Loki is Prometheus who brought the people fire and taught them how to make so many things with it.
Flaming sword, too? This episode is very heavy on the “mythology” stuff.
Elder Loki’s magic also looks quite a lot like Wanda’s magic. Oh, and P.S. He is awesome.
So Sylvie spent her whole life on the run since she was a small child? And why did they even take her? It didn’t look like she was out of her own timeline. I bet the Time Keepers wanted to get rid of her because she was the one person who could take them down. That’s why they’ve been monitoring her case so closely. They really are just tyrants, huh?
I’m thinking that there were no conflicting timelines. The Time Keepers invented the lie of the Sacred Timeline so that they could get the brainwashed variants to take care of the time branches they don’t like so that the three of them can stay in control of what happens in the one timeline. That way no one can come and overthrow them. Also, those things in their heads really look like Infinity Stones and I know that they basically said that Infinity Stones are useless in the TVA but everything else about it has been a lie so why not that, too? Marvel certainly love their Infinity Stones. I wouldn’t be surprised if this had anything to do with them.
And now they’ve killed C-20 to keep their secrets. I bet Sylvie’s powers are special in that once she’s gotten in the head of one of the TVA people, their memories can no longer be erased. Which means she can save them and that’s why the Time Keepers wanted her erased. But I also have a feeling this is a case of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Sylvie said she taught herself magic. Probably because she was taken from home and hunted down and she sort of evolved super fast by learning magic to protect herself. Magic that can now destroy the Time Keepers’ plan just as they feared. I really hope Mobius will help with that. He deserves better than to be manipulated into spreading lies so that “no one panics”. More like so that no one questions the Time Keepers’ ability to “protect” them and the timeline.
Wait, so the very existence of Lokis is a “deviation from the Sacred Timeline?” And yet they keep appearing because the Time Keepers have usurped the whole… universe, I guess. I guess the multiverse will be “created” in this one but technically it would’ve existed all along because the TVA is out of the flow of time. And here comes the time travel headache.
Sylvie suddenly got a lot more interesting. Knowing that she grew up seeing nothing but apocalypses. There’s a great thing to explore.
I’m thinking the Nexus event was the fact that Loki and Sylvie were about to die. The TVA basically saved them and that’s what cancelled the event.
I’m thinking Ravonna knows what’s truly going on. She’s in charge and she was the one originally sent after Sylvie. But it looks like Mobius now is at least considering what Loki told him. Or at the very least trying to prove to himself that Loki is wrong by talking directly to Sylvie to figure out what she did to C-20. But this refusal to let him anywhere near her might snap him out of it.
Wait. “Two orphan demi gods” and “another one”? So our Loki was the third Loki? There is another Loki that was creating problems for the TVA? Maybe he helped Sylvie indirectly?
I’m starting to think that all variants are excellent manipulators because there’s a 6D chess party going on here.
This is getting really emotional. And I’m glad that Mobius corrected his early mistake and realized that people can be good or bad, and change. That’s great. But I’m also thinking that Marvel is now weaving the theme of lying to oneself to make reality easier to bear part of the core of phase 4. It’s appeared several times already as part of the core message of the media in question.
…NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! They did not just erase Mobius!!! Okay, now I’m lying to myself to make this more bearable.
I figure this is the plan. Sylvie figured that the only way to actually get to the Time Keepers was this and that’s why she came back. Asking about her Nexus event just confirms that she’s right to think she didn’t do anything wrong; they just want her out of the way.
And we’re circling back to episode one and Loki’s monologue about mongering fear to simulate power. I guess the Time Keepers controlled the timeline so that every Loki would think they deserve to be alone. That way they weren’t a threat because they themselves were scared and couldn’t reach their true potential. But Loki and Sylvie broke that prison to create the Nexus event that saved their lives. And now they’re gonna fuck up things for the Time Keepers. Perfect narrative cohesion and plot from start to finish… as long as they don’t ruin it in the last two episodes.
The parallel of Sylvie throwing Loki an actual blade to his metaphor about love being an imaginary one. Damn, this is getting deep. I am really hoping that they won’t try to shove in an epic CGI-ed showdown at the end of it.
Love that Sylvie gets her moment against Ravonna, who took her from her home for zero reason… and yet, she didn’t kill her.
Ah, so someone else is pulling the strings here. These Time Keepers are not real just like everything else in the TVA. So that’s what the last two episodes will be about. I thought it was strange that the Time Keepers didn’t try to protect themselves or do anything to stop Loki and Sylvie.
Oh, shit! Here I thought this episode wouldn’t have any more surprises. Well, I guess they don’t get erased out of existence then. Maybe just reset. There’s no way this Loki is done for. Which means maybe we’ll see Mobius again.
I’m going to do this more as a stream of consciousness.
The theatrics here are so Loki-appropriate. But what happened with the TVA unit is very similar to what Wanda did to the Avengers is Age of Ultron. Actually, it’s more like what Loki did to Clint (and the scientist whose name I can’t recall) in The Avengers so perhaps it has something to do with the mind stone, except this Loki variant (which I’m guessing is Sylvie) kinda doesn’t need the scepter because they have taken on the abilities of the mind stone in the way Wanda has.
The way a 3D animated model speaks about the collapse of reality makes it kinda hilarious. So is Loki interacting with Mobius (not to mention Loki’s expressions at the visuals of his variants). I’m really thinking that we’re talking about Sylvie here because they keep saying “him”, “him” and they haven’t been able to find “him” because it’s not a “him”. Something with Sylvie is probably quite different. (Oh, and absolutely loving the fact how there have been more Loki variants than any other variants. That makes sense.)
Love how Mobius gave Loki a chance but also figured out that he was lying. I feel like he is supposed to be kind of like an antithesis of Thor. He doesn’t really have emotional involvement in Loki’s case but he wants to give him a chance (because Loki is useful to him) but he also has no patience for Loki’s bullshit and would definitely destroy him where Thor kept giving him chances. Maybe that’s what Loki needs to actually facilitate change faster.
(Is it me or does that middle statue of the Time Keepers really look like Professor X?)
I like Loki’s theory about the apocalyptic situations and I like that we get to go and see Pompeii. Actually, the set up of the entire show basically allows to go anywhere and do anything without fucking up the timeline (even though I have a feeling we will get to fucking up the timeline) and that is a really cool thing. I love it when shows allow to explore many different periods of history but without giving me time travel headaches and this is perfect.
“Existence is chaos” makes perfect sense with “chaos magic has the power of creation”.
“It’s real because I believe it’s real.” Can we smack Stephen with that so that he’d see that telling Wanda her children aren’t real was a terrible mistake?
Well, I guess global warming is causing a ton of apocalyptic events. That’s a depressing prognosis for the future, although certainly believable. I actually like that we get to go to the future as well because it wouldn’t make sense to just stay in the past. But they are really going to fuck up the plan because they didn’t think that the security cameras might give away their arrival? Imagine doing all this work and then making such a ridiculous mistake.
Oh, so the variant can possess people’s bodies as well. That’s… new.
Well, Sylvie’s plan is awesome. Since the charges erase stuff out of existence, I don’t think the Nexus events each one of them causes can be fixed because stuff that should have been there, will be erased. You can’t erase that. It’s an oversight of the TVA because they usually deal with removing things that are out of place but they haven’t been shown to have a plan about things that have to be there but aren’t. But also, we hear that the position of the Time Keepers was given away. Is it possible one of the charges was sent to destroy them or is that where Sylvie is going next?
I was debating whether to write this because I feel like the episode itself kinda pointed all of it out at one point or the other but ah, what the hell, I’ll write it.
First of all, I’d like to start with the fact that this episode was pretty much devoid of typical Marvel action stuff which I feel like becomes more of the norm for phase 4 and that’s nice. Tbh after the last two Avengers movies, I think any attempt to top the spectacle will be kinda unnecessary at best and probably unsuccessful. This new direction of trying to explore more about the characters and their feelings might just be better. Emotional moments have been the ones that have held my attention in any and every phase 4 media so far and I hope they’ll focus more on those.
Seeing them show the Infinity Stones being useless was imo one of the best parts of the MCU to date (shame that they went back to doing Infinity War + Endgame 2.0 in What If…?). And it was great to see Loki’s reaction to the same. I like how it made the facade he was trying so hard to keep up just crumble. It kinda feels like it freed him tbh and that could be great for his subsequent development. I have to say that I figured out that he was projecting when he was ranting about the TVA being pathetic and I was kinda disappointed the episode went ahead and straight up confirmed it because I wanted to unpack it but now there’s really no point in that.
Anyway, seeing Loki admit it was a big thing. He’s been struggling his whole life with this feeling of helplessness and admitting it has been his problem all along. The realization that he was facing some people who were really powerful hit him very hard and so did the idea that he’s just a supporting character, an evil for others to rise above, did as well. But I have to say that I don’t agree with that. Loki may not have been a central character in the MCU but he had his own development and he also became better. Even if he still clung to the illusion of power that crumbled during the confrontation with Thanos (I’m starting to think that as much as his death hurt me, it actually makes great narrative sense). So I’m thinking his arc here will be about discarding the illusion (which he wasn’t able to do in the og timeline) and managing to become even better because of that and prove he is not a supporting character in his own story. And if that’s where we’re going, then there really is a good point to the existence of this series. I’m not surprised by that per se but it’s good to really see how it is relevant to the characters and adds more to them.
A last couple of notes. I really like Mobius so far. I think that he might not actually believe what he told Loki about Loki’s purpose but did it that way in order to force Loki to come out from behind his facade. Or maybe he was just trying to get him to drop the superiority and help him. Either way I enjoyed him and his calm attitude, especially towards Loki. I don’t think anyone’s ever reacted like that towards Loki and their dynamic can be really fun.
Also, when the French girl pointed to the image of the devil, I totally thought that that meant some other variant of Loki was the big baddie here. They all have the horns, right? Even the crocodile (I might have spoiled some of this for myself from tumblr gifs.)
This moment definitely proves that at some point the TVA cops were people and that by becoming variants they are later enroll as officers, but what keeps their memories away? It’s still there because Sylvie was able to retrieve it, but why they forget? Who and what forces them?
I knew as soon as Sylvie was introduced we were gonna get discourse. I thought it would be quicker to come to this, but here we are I guess.
1) Loki being queer is not changed by his alleged attraction to an alternate female version of himself. Loki is not a gay man who’s whole sexuality has been changed because he met a female version of himself. Bisexual/pansexual people are no less queer because they are attracted to the opposite sex.
2) Selfcest is not incest. If it grosses you out, that’s fine, but it’s not incest. They were not raised together, there are no unhealthy power dynamics inherent with a lot incest related sexual content, and it’s also literally impossible to have sex with yourself outside of fiction, so who even cares?
3) Loki never even said that he was interested in Sylvie. Mobius assumed he was because he thinks Loki is still a raging narcissist and also because he’s half in love with him.
4) Mobius probably isn’t dead since Loki isn’t dead, so this isn’t a Bury Your Gays situation yet (though I’m prepared to eat my words here)
5) Everyone thinks it’s hilarious that Loki in Norse mythology was fucked and impregnated by a horse. Stop acting like sex between two consenting sentient beings would be weirder than getting fucked by a horse.
It’s great that Mobius spends all of episode 2 calling Loki arrogant, but is somehow completely shocked that Loki escapes custody at the end of the episode. Like what did you think was gonna happen dude? You spent all episode being condescending and smug about being able to read Loki, being really noncommittal about even giving Loki a chance to not die once he does his job; of COURSE he’s gonna leave the second he gets an opportunity!
You hire a trickster, constantly brag about him being predictable, and then when it happens it’s all shocked pikachu face xD
