Some people say Uncle Iroh isn’t as great as the show and fandom make him seem because he used to be a Fire Nation general (and so is responsible for a lot of colonization and war). But like, there’s actually a lot of redemption arc for that?
His redemption arc is Zuko.
He chose to leave his Royal life and (military) status behind to help his abused nephew and raise him to grow in to a good person. Raised him to understand that his father is actually a terrible person and that his own past actions were wrong.
Plus there’s a lot of redemption stuff in the background. The way he lied to save the dragons? The fact that he is a White Lotus member, pretty much the anti-colonization society?
I mean you can argue about whether one can ever do enough to redeem themselves for being an ex-war general on the wrong side of the conflict, but it’s not at all true that the show and fandom are just forgetting about it because he’s a sweet old man.
Just a reminder that Cinder Fall is a wonderfully written villain and that character development doesn’t have to go in a positive direction and that she still has a chance at redemption
So I’ve always had this theory that after the Baudelaire parents killed Count Olaf’s parents they stole his fortune (why else would a count be so poor?) and that’s why he’s so obsessed with stealing the Baudelaire fortune, because he thinks it’s rightfully his and they took it from him. I’ve heard of several other people who have essentially this same theory and a lot of those people believe it’s the point that Count Olaf turned bad. If you include the Netflix series as canon (which I do), then you know that Count Olaf wasn’t always bad and once was “noble”. The question then becomes, when did he turn bad?
But ultimately I don’t think Count Olaf did turn bad. I don’t think he turned bad for the simple reason that I don’t think Daniel Handler (or me for that matter) believes that people can “turn bad”. People just do bad things and all that makes up who we are is our actions in this world. Olaf used his grief and anger as an excuse for vile behavior in the name of revenge and used his tragic past as justification to act cruel to people who hadn’t actually harmed him. The Baudelaire orphans weren’t responsible for their parents’ misdoings - they were just there and Olaf took his revenge out on him.
That’s why I love Olaf’s “redemption arc” so much - because it doesn’t actually redeem him. There’s a lot of debate and internal conflict in The Penultimate Peril and The End about whether the Baudelaire orphans and Count Olaf are the same and whether the orphans are just as bad as him. But ultimately, what distinguishes Olaf from the Baudelaire orphans in the end is that the Baudelaires were “noble enough” and understood that bad situations don’t excuse bad behavior. They did bad things, but they regretted it and they only did it if it was absolutely necessary. Olaf had an incredibly tragic story - probably one of the most tragic of any children’s villain in American canon - and it’s okay to feel sad for him when you read it, but he ruined all chance at redemption when he used his tragic story as an excuse to continue perpetuating the cycle of abuse.
So much of ASOUE is a metaphor about child abuse and abusers (Handler was a survivor of CSA) and Olaf represents an abusive person who also suffered abuse. His decision to be cruel to others after experiencing intense cruelty himself is what the cycle of abuse is at its very core. It’s very sad, and it makes you look at the whole situation differently, but in the end he chose to do what he did even though he had first hand experience with how much it ruins people and that is what makes him the villain and the Baudelaires the heroes despite any tragic backstory Snicket can give
I watched the Eternals today and I think it was good, but I really Don’t like what they did with Ikaris , making him the villain was a bad decision, I mean in the comics he was main Eternal, the one who always was in front on covers. And even if they had to make him a villain they didn’t have to kill him, they could leave him alive for the sequel where he could have redemption arc, but that’s problem with MCU they have to kill off their villains. Still I hope he will reborn in the sequel considering they were able to do that in the comics. Besides it would waste of a good actor such as Richard Madden
1. Realizing how dumb the protagonists are and becoming the mom friend
2. “I wasn’t that bad.” // “Yes, you were.”
3. Deciding to change after the death of a loved one
4. Joining the good side and finally reuniting with a loved one
5. Waiting at the corner during the protagonists’ gatherings, because they don’t feel like they deserve to be accepted so easily.
6. Before joining the team, they let the protagonists attack them without them fighting back, because they know they deserve it.
7. “You don’t have to forgive me-” // “Are you stupid? We forgive you. Welcome to the family.”
8. Them sacrificing themselves for the very protagonist they were trying to kill before their redemption arc.
9. Not being used to kindness and affection - blushing profusely whenever anyone gives them a compliment or a pat on the head
10. Not knowing how socializing or friends work and ends up being that one socially awkward mf in the friend group (yes this is a big callout to Zuko)
11. Crying themselves to sleep because they keep on getting flashbacks of the horrible things they once did
12. Getting adopted as the precious smol bean of the group even though they once tried to kill the protagonists
13. Becoming the weird uncle/aunt that everyone secretly loves
14. Still having nightmares about their trauma or their past mistakes
15. Everyone in the group being lowkey in love with them because they used to be the hot villain
16. Playfully being blackmailed by the protagonists because of their bad decisions in the past
17. “There is NO WAY I’m wearing this lame outfit-” // “Wear it right now or I’ll tell everyone how you tried to set me on fire.”
18. Seeing the protagonists’ full potential while fighting the other villains and going, “Bless the Lord I decided to switch sides on time.”
19. Being rivals with one of the protagonists
20. Ohohohohoho rivals to lovers? Jkjk- unless…-?
21. The heroes not trusting the villain until realizing that they’ve truly changed
22. Alternately, the villain refusing to trust anyone until the heroes teach them what it means to have and trust a family.
23. Always hiding behind the back of that one protagonist they’re close to during meetings, because are they even supposed to be here? What if they get evicted?
24. Being tempted to go back to the evil side but realizing how much the protagonists mean to them
25. Convincing their old friends on the evil side to also switch sides, which may or may not end well
A character arc where the character who did terrible things and regrets them is forced to live, to put one foot in front of the other and find healing, who chooses to pour goodness into the world and make the world a better place
Is more satisfying to me than a character arc where the character who did terrible things and regrets them is redeemed through death
99.9% of the time.
There was a tumblr post about this where basically it was “redemption isn’t about people forgiving you because you do better now, it’s about you doing better even if no one forgives you.”
And honestly this post changed my view on redemption arcs and on the “Redeemed Through Death” arc.
But don’t trust him completely, even if your players trick you into a redemption arc like mine did…Maybe he can change, maybe not. But he will always be dangerous.
Sometimes you’ve got to ask yourself: did that character redeem themself or are they just not acting like a jerk (or as much of a jerk as they were before)?
Because it’s the Glorious 25th, I am of course thinking of Sam Vimes today.
And the thing about Vimes as a hero is that he’s so extreme in personality, but also so deeply relatable.
Carrot, for example, (and of course it’s not an accident that Carrot is there as comparison) is your typical fantasy hero. And he’s not relatable at all. He’s Good in a way that most people will never be, can never be. There’s something God-touched about his goodness. And his goodness isn’t…super effective. I mean, it is a little. But no, who is it that really creates and continues the sweeping change of Discworld, over and over again? It’s Sam Vimes.
Sam Vimes, who spent most of his life drunk and in a gutter. Who burnt out from his unfair job, unjust world, and unappreciated caring and gave up. For YEARS AND YEARS he gave up.
Until he finally met a situation that was so intense it forced him to care again.
And lord, that is so COMFORTING. That you can fuck up your whole life for a couple decades and then still answer the call when it comes. Save the day and push for changes. Be the sand in the gears of industry, fight impossible odds and win over and over, while complaining about having to do it the whole time.
Vimes as we mostly know him is a character our world desperately needed. Someone who keeps pushing and pushing against overwhelming injustice, even when it seems like the powers that be are stacked so high against you.
But also how much more powerful to say “this character was once a total waste of space.” He was ground down by daily life and constant injustice. But he didn’t stay that way forever.
Revealed that villain’s schemes secretly served the greater good, somehow
Villain switches teams out of expedience; protagonists overlook the fact that they’re still a huge jerk because they now benefit from it
Context or status quo altered so that villain’s previously harmful actions become constructive and useful with no changes on their part
It turns out that villain wasn’t actually responsible for the one specific thing the protagonists are trying to stop or get revenge for; everything else they clearly did do conveniently ignored
Villain never repents or makes amends for any of the awful stuff they did, but they’re really hot, so no one cares
